RE: 2020 Land Rover Defender leaked (sort of)
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
Just spent a long weekend green laning and touring South/Mid Wales. As well as traveling through the Cotswolds twice.
It was nice to see just how many Defenders were still being used as work horses. Numbers have declined, but seeing as LR haven't offered anything for nearly 5 years now, it is no wonder people have been forced to buy elsewhere.
I'd say on average I still saw more Defenders than all of the other pickup brands combined.
Cotswold's and board 110's seemed the most popular. In the Welsh hills/mountains pickup 90's with Ifor Williams tops the most common, followed by basic 90 hard tops. Hardly saw any CSW's.
I do seriously doubt LR will be targeting this market. But I'm still amazed that they don't want any sort of foothold in it.
How many times does it need explaining ?It was nice to see just how many Defenders were still being used as work horses. Numbers have declined, but seeing as LR haven't offered anything for nearly 5 years now, it is no wonder people have been forced to buy elsewhere.
I'd say on average I still saw more Defenders than all of the other pickup brands combined.
Cotswold's and board 110's seemed the most popular. In the Welsh hills/mountains pickup 90's with Ifor Williams tops the most common, followed by basic 90 hard tops. Hardly saw any CSW's.
I do seriously doubt LR will be targeting this market. But I'm still amazed that they don't want any sort of foothold in it.
JLR cannot afford to serve this market.
It requires a substantial change of business model which they cannot adapt to given the direction of the business and other strategic investment priorities.
300bhp/ton said:
Brooking10 said:
How many times does it need explaining ?
JLR cannot afford to serve this market.
Do you know this for certain, or are you like me, just expressing a personal opinion? Or are they not allowed either? JLR cannot afford to serve this market.
The reasons have been outlined several times now but you simply ignore them.
Folk hoping for £30k pricing might be disappointed as I'm fairly sure I read a piece on here talking about £70k for the higher-spec models. Add on the usual extras and we could be looking at a £100k Defender.
The Ineos Grenadier is a lot more in tune with the 'hose it down' farmer-spec philosophy. They are talking more about £30k.
The Ineos Grenadier is a lot more in tune with the 'hose it down' farmer-spec philosophy. They are talking more about £30k.
Brooking10 said:
Opinions are fine but when they are ill informed and expressed over and over again despite folks taking the time to explain why things can’t be the way you wish don’t be surprised if people with a bit of insight into the workings of the industry and this particular business challenge them.
Are you the CFO of JLR? What insights to the industry do you have that make your opinion superior?300bhp/ton said:
Are you the CFO of JLR? What insights to the industry do you have that make your opinion superior?
It isn’t rocket science. Even the big global players aren’t going it alone - Isuzu and GM share a platform, Mercedes tart-up a Nissan, Mazda rebadge a Ford, the next Ranger will also be the next Amarok etc. 
LaurasOtherHalf said:
NomduJour said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I can’t see s nice spec one of these being under £30k + vat.
A higher-spec X Class (Navara in drag) is very close to £50k, Amarok the same, you can spend well over £40k on a D-Max - that’s an awful lot of money for something that costs about £2.50 to build. I can’t help but think that’s where the volume sales are.
That farmer/old school/cheap & abused market will never ever buy it even at £30k when they can get a poverty ranger for £20k with no bells & whistles, or a 3rd hand hilux for half that. That target audience doesn't exist in jlr's mind.
JLR is a premium manufacturer, selling premium vehicles for a premium. For a manufacturer as small as them their won't be any money in cheap, cheerful & mass produced like the bigger OEMs can get away with. Jlr's only option is continue as they are good at... Premium stuff, without the German badge & a British design/heritage to romanticise about.
jlr will sell a s
t load of defenders to the male equivilent of the mini/fiat 500 crowd on finance. They like it as a "defender" but no one gives a st about its "authenticity". No one except a few posters on pistonheads anyway,who are not in the market for any new car... Let alone a new premium JLR one! Edited by Andeh1 on Friday 28th June 10:21
300bhp/ton said:
Are you the CFO of JLR? What insights to the industry do you have that make your opinion superior?
Sales of 15k vehicles per yr for the last model are too low to justify a new model. It's common sense that JLR need to expand the target market by making it a more comfortable and rounded vehicle that can be used by others and not just farmers / enthusiasts.300bhp/ton said:
Are you the CFO of JLR? What insights to the industry do you have that make your opinion superior?
You questioned my view of this a few pages back too - I did 5 years as a senior manager in Marketing Sales and Service at JLR and left a few months ago. Is that good enough for you?300bhp/ton said:
Brooking10 said:
Opinions are fine but when they are ill informed and expressed over and over again despite folks taking the time to explain why things can’t be the way you wish don’t be surprised if people with a bit of insight into the workings of the industry and this particular business challenge them.
Are you the CFO of JLR? What insights to the industry do you have that make your opinion superior?It has nothing to do with superiority of view it’s just cold hard fact that if you worked in a field that needed to understand the financials and dynamics of the modern day car industry you would appreciate.
Please forgive the PHPBD tone
.I'd missed this thread up to now, but coincidentally I've just been speaking to someone who is on the product planning team for this at JLR.
They were obviously very cagey but one thing that I did pick up on is that they are intending to offer an Authentic Pack at launch. This will comprise vinyl seats, delete audio and centre storage box, 6J x 18" white painted steel wheels, upholstered side facing rear benches ( not allowed to call them seats apparently ) Choice of Cotswold Green, Marine Blue or Fuji White with contrast black or white roof, fixed towbar and rubber floor mats embossed with a L/R Authentic logo.
They aren't sure whether to produce it as a Launch Edition or a series production model, in either case price is likely to be £3500 to £5000 above standard.
Hopefully this should provide some reassurance for those wanting a traditional rather than blingy Land Rover.
They were obviously very cagey but one thing that I did pick up on is that they are intending to offer an Authentic Pack at launch. This will comprise vinyl seats, delete audio and centre storage box, 6J x 18" white painted steel wheels, upholstered side facing rear benches ( not allowed to call them seats apparently ) Choice of Cotswold Green, Marine Blue or Fuji White with contrast black or white roof, fixed towbar and rubber floor mats embossed with a L/R Authentic logo.
They aren't sure whether to produce it as a Launch Edition or a series production model, in either case price is likely to be £3500 to £5000 above standard.
Hopefully this should provide some reassurance for those wanting a traditional rather than blingy Land Rover.
From the Disco4 forum
Land Rover will offer three variants of the new Defender and four personalization options to widen the appeal of the venerable off-roader, according to people familiar with the project.
The variants will include an eight-seat version while the personalization options will target a range of customers from off-road fans to buyers looking for a high-riding urban runabout.
The three variants will be:
- The three-door Defender 90. This will have five- and six-seat versions and will grow in length to 170 inches from less than 158 inches in the previous generation.
- The five-door Defender 110. This will have five-, six- and seven-seat versions. It will increase in length to 187 inches.
- The Defender 130. This variant will be a five-door, eight-seat passenger vehicle that is 201 inches. Previously, the Defender 130 was sold only as a double-cab pickup.
The 110 is the "definitive Defender" aimed at adventurers, couples and self-employed people. The range-topping “Premium Explorer” 130 will be pitched at families with an "active lifestyle."
The second-generation Defender will be unveiled on Sept. 10 at the Frankfurt auto show. The 90 and 110 variants will go on sale next year, followed by the 130 about 12 months later.
The new model will be built at Jaguar Land Rover's new plant in Nitra, Slovakia. It is underpinned by the D7u platform already used by the Discovery, which is also built in Nitra.
The change means the new Defender will become an all-aluminum unibody SUV. The original Defender, launched in 1948, featured an aluminum bodyshell bolted on a steel ladder frame.
To reach a broader customer base than pure off-road enthusiasts, the new Defender will have four personalization lines with different accessories and features.
These will be:
- Country for weekends in the countryside.
- Adventure with features making it something like an SUV "grand tourer."
- Urban for cities and the suburbs. It is expected that this option will be popular for the three-door 90 model.
- Explorer with features that make it a "go anywhere" off roader.
The Defender will be launched with conventional and mild-hybrid versions of JLR's Ingenium range of engines. A plug-in hybrid model will join the range after its launch, JLR has said.
Land Rover Defender: details of new Defender family leaked
New 2020 Land Rover: full specifications leaked
Edited by B17NNS on Tuesday 2nd July 21:11
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