RE: Aston Martin caps DBX production at 5,000 a year
Discussion
unsprung said:
sorry... but I'm happy to try further! 
Before I continue: I have no monopoly on this topic, and I assume that others will continue to comment this thread.
Today the luxury SUV speaks of the indomitable.
And no other vehicle can achieve this in quite the same way.
OEMs are not "selling out" by making swish SUVs. They're acknowledging that the SUV is less and less "one of the choices available" and more and more the very definition of motoring. This is historic. It is true both for a large percentage of the population as well as up and down the socio-demographic ladder.
It's fair to ask, as you do, "Why didn't Ferrari build a luxury saloon when luxury saloons were the pinnacle of the luxury segment?"
a. We are different. And we are rich.
People in the UK and other Western nations are living further up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs than even a generation or two ago. Consider how our grandparents approached things like work, home, a holiday, and so on. We are likely to find that expectations were relatively low and remarkably homogeneous. This is all but gone.
In its place are needs, products, and brands that are far more existential, more expressive, and more individualised. Moreover there is the matter of money. Today's car buyer is offered more features and more performance -- at a lower price -- than ever before. There are also more "well to do" people, both nominally and as a percentage of the population, than ever before.
b. Luxury has been democratised.
This is not merely about the rise of Lexus and, now, Genesis. It is also about "entry level" cars offered by the Germans. It is about Ferrari announcing that its California was made "easier to drive" with female buyers in mind. And it is also about middle-class brands having quite a lot of comfort and clever kit in their own middle-market offerings.
In important ways, a Ford saloon of today is markedly superior to a Mercedes-Benz saloon of years ago. Quite simply: all car buyers, including luxury car buyers, expect more from their cars today as well as more from the OEMs who produce these cars.
We no longer assume that OEMs will fit into discrete boxes; instead we find that OEMs are perched somewhere along a spectrum of experiences which blend, one into the other. If a Lamborghini owner enjoys a two-seat performance car, he or she is not wrong to turn to the OEM and say, "I adore the weekend toy you've given me. Why can't you make me your version of these posh SUVs that my friends and I like?"
Years ago there were essentially no such people.
Think you're absolutely spot on there. PCP/HP has played its part too I think, giving access to higher end cars to a market that historically wouldn't have existed.Before I continue: I have no monopoly on this topic, and I assume that others will continue to comment this thread.
Today the luxury SUV speaks of the indomitable.
And no other vehicle can achieve this in quite the same way.
OEMs are not "selling out" by making swish SUVs. They're acknowledging that the SUV is less and less "one of the choices available" and more and more the very definition of motoring. This is historic. It is true both for a large percentage of the population as well as up and down the socio-demographic ladder.
It's fair to ask, as you do, "Why didn't Ferrari build a luxury saloon when luxury saloons were the pinnacle of the luxury segment?"
a. We are different. And we are rich.
People in the UK and other Western nations are living further up Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs than even a generation or two ago. Consider how our grandparents approached things like work, home, a holiday, and so on. We are likely to find that expectations were relatively low and remarkably homogeneous. This is all but gone.
In its place are needs, products, and brands that are far more existential, more expressive, and more individualised. Moreover there is the matter of money. Today's car buyer is offered more features and more performance -- at a lower price -- than ever before. There are also more "well to do" people, both nominally and as a percentage of the population, than ever before.
b. Luxury has been democratised.
This is not merely about the rise of Lexus and, now, Genesis. It is also about "entry level" cars offered by the Germans. It is about Ferrari announcing that its California was made "easier to drive" with female buyers in mind. And it is also about middle-class brands having quite a lot of comfort and clever kit in their own middle-market offerings.
In important ways, a Ford saloon of today is markedly superior to a Mercedes-Benz saloon of years ago. Quite simply: all car buyers, including luxury car buyers, expect more from their cars today as well as more from the OEMs who produce these cars.
We no longer assume that OEMs will fit into discrete boxes; instead we find that OEMs are perched somewhere along a spectrum of experiences which blend, one into the other. If a Lamborghini owner enjoys a two-seat performance car, he or she is not wrong to turn to the OEM and say, "I adore the weekend toy you've given me. Why can't you make me your version of these posh SUVs that my friends and I like?"
Years ago there were essentially no such people.
I actually know someone who is exactly your Lambo owner example. Has owned several Lambo's over the years and always had a FFRR as the 'family' car. Got bored of the ownership experience (crap service, last RR was a bit of a lemon) and liked the idea of having a daily Lambo. The Urus was a no-brainer for him.
Andy Palmer said:
Protecting Aston’s status as a luxury brand
So what was the Cygnet about then?FWIW I think that in a post-Brexit Britian, when all the car manufacturers have shut up and left their factories empty, the government would be well advised to chuck a shedload of money at Aston Martin, devalue the brand and make a 3 Series rival.
They are making an SUV because they are profitable and that is what people seem to want. It is more than just a trend or fashion now.
Not sure why Aston are officially showing a disguised car. I understand companies disguise cars whilst they are being tested but why would the press department want to show this thing. It was never going to look good but at least wait until you have a finished version in a nice colour to show.
Not sure why Aston are officially showing a disguised car. I understand companies disguise cars whilst they are being tested but why would the press department want to show this thing. It was never going to look good but at least wait until you have a finished version in a nice colour to show.
Doofus said:
And if you really want to ensure that "demand always outstrips supply", then why not build none at all?
Assuming a 15% gross margin and an MSRP of £120k (I have no idea at all, but to illustrate the point), £120,000 x 15% x 5,000 = £90m.
I’m no big shot CEO, but I’d take £90m p/a over £0m every time.
And if the longer term effect is better residuals as a result of less stock in the channel (see new Vantage / DB11 of how not to do it) then this will bring more people into the brand.
Whether there’s enough demand to meet the supply of 5k cars a year, only time will tell, but it’s not a terrible strategy and one that has clearly worked for Ferrari.
AdamV12AMR said:
Doofus said:
And if you really want to ensure that "demand always outstrips supply", then why not build none at all?
Assuming a 15% gross margin and an MSRP of £120k (I have no idea at all, but to illustrate the point), £120,000 x 15% x 5,000 = £90m.
I’m no big shot CEO, but I’d take £90m p/a over £0m every time.
And if the longer term effect is better residuals as a result of less stock in the channel (see new Vantage / DB11 of how not to do it) then this will bring more people into the brand.
Whether there’s enough demand to meet the supply of 5k cars a year, only time will tell, but it’s not a terrible strategy and one that has clearly worked for Ferrari.
My point was that it was a fatuous statement.
LooneyTunes said:
Personally I don’t really see buying a DBX/Urus/Bentayga when the FFRR does its job well and allows fewer compromises to be made with respect to the proper toys. Maybe it’s a city vs country thing...
1. Why spend money on off road RR ability you would never use2. They can be unreliable
3. IMHO tired styling now
4. If you have loads of money you want a Bentley/Lambo/Aston badge as they don’t make anything as cheap and commonplace as a Evoque
I succumbed and bought a Macan turbo as daughter could no longer fit in the 911, it’s great, comfortable, practical and quick and sporty enough for me. Other SUVs were way to big for me
Thankyou4calling said:
There’s no chance of them selling 5000 of these a year.
There are simply too many cars competing for too few buyers.
Bentayga
RR Vogue
Urus
Cullinan
Levante
X8
Q8
Cayenne
There’s simply not enough people to go round.
Porsche Cayenne Global sales (and Porsche might well have a 50% + margin on these...)There are simply too many cars competing for too few buyers.
Bentayga
RR Vogue
Urus
Cullinan
Levante
X8
Q8
Cayenne
There’s simply not enough people to go round.
2018 13.848
2017 11.933
2016 17.169
2015 17.851
2014 12.323
2013 16.855
2012 20.353
2011 18.028
I suspect the Aston will be £50k more than a nicely specced Cayenne/FFRR - but that is what balloons are for
IReally need to SEE the final one to gauge looks - it will live or die by that. Its getting the AMG V8 - one of the best engines ever made. It has to be a looker though as that is what Aston have always nailed in past years. Please god let it look better than a Cayenne/Bentayga and it might make its bed.
Adam B said:
LooneyTunes said:
Personally I don’t really see buying a DBX/Urus/Bentayga when the FFRR does its job well and allows fewer compromises to be made with respect to the proper toys. Maybe it’s a city vs country thing...
1. Why spend money on off road RR ability you would never use2. They can be unreliable
3. IMHO tired styling now
4. If you have loads of money you want a Bentley/Lambo/Aston badge as they don’t make anything as cheap and commonplace as a Evoque
I succumbed and bought a Macan turbo as daughter could no longer fit in the 911, it’s great, comfortable, practical and quick and sporty enough for me. Other SUVs were way to big for me
If you are limited to one car then sure, maybe you do want a 4x4 with the badges mentioned, but if you already own one (or possibly more) from those marques then there are plenty who will choose the FFRR. The ubiquity of Land Rover isn’t a problem for any of those I know who run them alongside other kit.
Agent57 said:
They are making an SUV because they are profitable and that is what people seem to want. It is more than just a trend or fashion now.
Great. I'll be expecting a full range now from all the sports and supercar marques. From supermini to people carriers, hell even vans. I'll take a high-top Luton Aston Martin panel van with a V8. LooneyTunes said:
Adam B said:
LooneyTunes said:
Personally I don’t really see buying a DBX/Urus/Bentayga when the FFRR does its job well and allows fewer compromises to be made with respect to the proper toys. Maybe it’s a city vs country thing...
1. Why spend money on off road RR ability you would never use2. They can be unreliable
3. IMHO tired styling now
4. If you have loads of money you want a Bentley/Lambo/Aston badge as they don’t make anything as cheap and commonplace as a Evoque
I succumbed and bought a Macan turbo as daughter could no longer fit in the 911, it’s great, comfortable, practical and quick and sporty enough for me. Other SUVs were way to big for me
If you are limited to one car then sure, maybe you do want a 4x4 with the badges mentioned, but if you already own one (or possibly more) from those marques then there are plenty who will choose the FFRR. The ubiquity of Land Rover isn’t a problem for any of those I know who run them alongside other kit.
But there are plenty of people who want the most premium and for them ubiquity is certainly bad. They want exclusivity and the badge, and maybe the extra oomph all that money buys
When you're capable of this...
and then build this...
...you deserve nothing short of the equivalent of an absolute automotive drubbing. Aston could have knocked this out of the park. Literally had people queuing up. The DBX stinks to high heaven of 'what's the bare minimum we can do to capitalise on the current trend for expensive SUV's?'
The guys who designed the car at the top were given LSD and told not to leave the room until they'd designed the ultimate interpretation of what an SUV could be. Oh, and you'd better make achingly pretty too.
The DBX guys? They got some Werther's Originals, a Rover 200 with a lift kit, a grille and some badges. When did mediocrity and banality become an acceptable modus operandi?
People who buy cars at this level on the whole are not stupid. They will not fall for this. Capping production to maintain exclusivity? What's next? A new clothing line especially for Emperors?
and then build this...
...you deserve nothing short of the equivalent of an absolute automotive drubbing. Aston could have knocked this out of the park. Literally had people queuing up. The DBX stinks to high heaven of 'what's the bare minimum we can do to capitalise on the current trend for expensive SUV's?'
The guys who designed the car at the top were given LSD and told not to leave the room until they'd designed the ultimate interpretation of what an SUV could be. Oh, and you'd better make achingly pretty too.
The DBX guys? They got some Werther's Originals, a Rover 200 with a lift kit, a grille and some badges. When did mediocrity and banality become an acceptable modus operandi?
People who buy cars at this level on the whole are not stupid. They will not fall for this. Capping production to maintain exclusivity? What's next? A new clothing line especially for Emperors?
Edited by B17NNS on Sunday 30th June 16:24
PRND said:
Agent57 said:
They are making an SUV because they are profitable and that is what people seem to want. It is more than just a trend or fashion now.
Great. I'll be expecting a full range now from all the sports and supercar marques. From supermini to people carriers, hell even vans. I'll take a high-top Luton Aston Martin panel van with a V8. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/...
I can't help but think they should concentrate on cars, but as sheds go, this is pretty spectacular....
I can't help but think they should concentrate on cars, but as sheds go, this is pretty spectacular....
Obviously, I can't say too conclusively until the actual car appears (minus camo.) but if they're going to allow camouflaged cars to be photographed, we're going to make some kind of judgement on whether it looks like something we're going to like.
At this stage, it looks like a somewhat lazy attempt and it wears its "just a car to fill a requirement" cap just a little too obviously.
I think the luxury market for this type of car is pretty well occupied with some pretty well developed cars. I think Aston Martin may have aimed just a little shy of treble twenty with this... So far.
At this stage, it looks like a somewhat lazy attempt and it wears its "just a car to fill a requirement" cap just a little too obviously.
I think the luxury market for this type of car is pretty well occupied with some pretty well developed cars. I think Aston Martin may have aimed just a little shy of treble twenty with this... So far.
Robert-nszl1 said:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/...
I can't help but think they should concentrate on cars, but as sheds go, this is pretty spectacular....
Aston Martin are in the experiential business. Outcomes are delivered via skilful engineering and inspired design.I can't help but think they should concentrate on cars, but as sheds go, this is pretty spectacular....
With this in mind, we can confidently claim that the building in Miami is more on-brief than the DBX SUV. The building belongs in the AM portfolio; the DBX, as it currently appears to be, doesn't.
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