RE: Aston Martin caps DBX production at 5,000 a year
Discussion
SpeckledJim said:
Bladedancer said:
camel_landy said:
JxJ Jr. said:
The question is more how many of those 2,700 are actually customer orders and how many are orders for dealer stock, as both of us have highlighted that AM has some recent history on this.
Talk about splitting hairs... Does it REALLY matter? Do we care how AM run their business?M
If significant number out of that 2700 is going to be manager's cars, demo cars and showroom pieces, then they're not really SELLING them, are they? Sure, they're creating a secondary market but this is different.
Once the newness wears off I can't see them selling as many of these as Lambo sell Urus. The styling is a problem (to say the least) and the quality won't match Lamborghini or Bentley.
If it was sexy (like Aston Martins used to be) then it wouldn't be a problem.
Edited by SpeckledJim on Thursday 12th March 16:07
Thankyou4calling said:
And the official line from Aston is that they have 1800 orders so I’m struggling to reconcile 2700 let alone 3000+
No chance of selling 5000 in a year.
No chance of them being in existence to sell anything. No chance of selling 5000 in a year.
It’s kaput. They weren’t selling enough cars to service their debt and keep the lights on before C19 knocked out the one market keeping them vaguely afloat.
The current AM Ltd won’t ever sell a single DBX but the pheonixed new co will and without all the debt and baggage of the old co it won’t need to sell anything like 5000 a year just to keep the lights on.
In a rather unpleasant way AM is actually in a good place right now as it can fold and pheonix back up with a clean balance sheet and no pension liabilities and come out the other side ready to sell the DBX as a well funded, solid company.
Expect many companies with excessive debt and pension liabilities but good brand and products to look to pheonix on the back of C19. The likes of Mike Ashley and Phil Green are probably priapismic at the prospect.
JxJ Jr. said:
Just got one step closer - FT reporting terms of the recent investment have been changed, raising £536m instead of £500m, with Stroll & co. now investing £171m for 25% rather than the previous £182m for 16.7%.
My personal view is that Stroll is not an idiot and that only an idiot would buy AM before the C19 event plays out. I personally think that the purpose of this deal is to actually place him as a front runner for a total buyout rescue 24 hours before the administrators walk through the door. The company is dead and everyone knows it. The brand and business is tremendously valuable and the winner will be the person who whips it out of the administrators clutches just before they grab it. DonkeyApple said:
No chance of them being in existence to sell anything.
It’s kaput. They weren’t selling enough cars to service their debt and keep the lights on before C19 knocked out the one market keeping them vaguely afloat.
The current AM Ltd won’t ever sell a single DBX but the pheonixed new co will and without all the debt and baggage of the old co it won’t need to sell anything like 5000 a year just to keep the lights on.
In a rather unpleasant way AM is actually in a good place right now as it can fold and pheonix back up with a clean balance sheet and no pension liabilities and come out the other side ready to sell the DBX as a well funded, solid company.
Expect many companies with excessive debt and pension liabilities but good brand and products to look to pheonix on the back of C19. The likes of Mike Ashley and Phil Green are probably priapismic at the prospect.
I do love your posts Donkey.It’s kaput. They weren’t selling enough cars to service their debt and keep the lights on before C19 knocked out the one market keeping them vaguely afloat.
The current AM Ltd won’t ever sell a single DBX but the pheonixed new co will and without all the debt and baggage of the old co it won’t need to sell anything like 5000 a year just to keep the lights on.
In a rather unpleasant way AM is actually in a good place right now as it can fold and pheonix back up with a clean balance sheet and no pension liabilities and come out the other side ready to sell the DBX as a well funded, solid company.
Expect many companies with excessive debt and pension liabilities but good brand and products to look to pheonix on the back of C19. The likes of Mike Ashley and Phil Green are probably priapismic at the prospect.
Usually full of insight and wisdom.
However I must admit to not knowing the meaning of "priapismic", so I googled and found this.........
PRIAPISM
noun
Pathology. continuous, usually nonsexual erection of the penis, especially due to disease.
prurient behavior or display.
Having added to my store of knowledge, thanks to you, I am led to comment as follows ......
1) How and in which context did your life lead you to discover the word and it's meaning ?
2) How would the aforementioned gentlemen know whether their appendage was erect as they are both so bleedin fat that they haven't seen their winkle for many years ?
DonkeyApple said:
Thankyou4calling said:
And the official line from Aston is that they have 1800 orders so I’m struggling to reconcile 2700 let alone 3000+
No chance of selling 5000 in a year.
No chance of them being in existence to sell anything. No chance of selling 5000 in a year.
It’s kaput. They weren’t selling enough cars to service their debt and keep the lights on before C19 knocked out the one market keeping them vaguely afloat.
The current AM Ltd won’t ever sell a single DBX but the pheonixed new co will and without all the debt and baggage of the old co it won’t need to sell anything like 5000 a year just to keep the lights on.
In a rather unpleasant way AM is actually in a good place right now as it can fold and pheonix back up with a clean balance sheet and no pension liabilities and come out the other side ready to sell the DBX as a well funded, solid company.
Expect many companies with excessive debt and pension liabilities but good brand and products to look to pheonix on the back of C19. The likes of Mike Ashley and Phil Green are probably priapismic at the prospect.
skwdenyer said:
What are the terms of the debt? It isn’t self-evident that the debt-holders wouldn’t just take control, is it?
They are front runners but the Stroll offer document shows that there are three major debt owners and they have so far tied themselves in to the Stroll deal and one has opted for dilution. At this moment in time it looks like they are happy to remain debt holders with an elevated equity position but for Stroll to replace the existing equity holders. An entity needs to actually run the business and move it forward and at the moment it does look like the bond holders are happy for that to be Stroll et al.
avinalarf said:
I do love your posts Donkey.
Usually full of insight and wisdom.
However I must admit to not knowing the meaning of "priapismic", so I googled and found this.........
PRIAPISM
noun
Pathology. continuous, usually nonsexual erection of the penis, especially due to disease.
prurient behavior or display.
Having added to my store of knowledge, thanks to you, I am led to comment as follows ......
1) How and in which context did your life lead you to discover the word and it's meaning ?
2) How would the aforementioned gentlemen know whether their appendage was erect as they are both so bleedin fat that they haven't seen their winkle for many years ?
1) school I would aimagine. Usually full of insight and wisdom.
However I must admit to not knowing the meaning of "priapismic", so I googled and found this.........
PRIAPISM
noun
Pathology. continuous, usually nonsexual erection of the penis, especially due to disease.
prurient behavior or display.
Having added to my store of knowledge, thanks to you, I am led to comment as follows ......
1) How and in which context did your life lead you to discover the word and it's meaning ?
2) How would the aforementioned gentlemen know whether their appendage was erect as they are both so bleedin fat that they haven't seen their winkle for many years ?
2) they have staff to check? A dwarf with a mirror?
DonkeyApple said:
They are front runners but the Stroll offer document shows that there are three major debt owners and they have so far tied themselves in to the Stroll deal and one has opted for dilution.
Can you please help with a link, for us to see the Stroll offer document, DA?
I did not know that the two existing major shareholders, are also significant holders in the various bond issues.
Investment Dar and Adeem Investment, have been very loyal investors since 2007, following the sale by Ford Motor Company.
Jon39 said:
Can you please help with a link, for us to see the Stroll offer document, DA?
I did not know that the two existing major shareholders, are also significant holders in the various bond issues.
Investment Dar and Adeem Investment, have been very loyal investors since 2007, following the sale by Ford Motor Company.
https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/uk/astonmar...
I can’t find the report re the debt. The recent junk bond holders were planned to be paid down.
I suspect that last week’s revision was just step 1 of a multi step process. But Dar pretty much went bust a few years ago and at one point was using its AM stake as collateral to hold off the wolves so they haven’t deep pockets and Adeem is a family wealth office with limited direct resources who may not get a credit line to go any deeper into AM so at some point Stroll really gets the upper hand and could start ratcheting up their dillition if he can get more money than they can.
Personally I think the AM brand is hugely valuable but that it has been a business run by old men and backed by old men with old world views of women and the world in general to the point that the company just sells products for old blokes. It seems a bit harsh but as a high end global brand they haven’t tapped modern markets in the way other brands have. It’s onviously more difficult for AM as they aren’t as brash and bling as other brands which have been very well positioned historically for bling and new money. Bentley was always for the newer money, Lambo, Ferrari and Porsche have always been able to attract that important money. AM spent much of its life trying to hide from it and tunnel those customers in through the back door hoping no one would see.
AM need to make a product for women and rhenDBX is a good start in that direction. It needs to orientate it’s brand towards a younger demographic. It does need electricity!! And it does need to clearly expand the brand beyond just cars. Its brand has a pretty clear and strong definition in many ways and that can be applied to a wide range of luxury goods.
The only problem with Stroll is that ultimately he is just a pensioner whomis off shopping and wasting time just like the pensioners who potter along to garden centres and buy some tat to keep them happy at home for a while but on a larger scale.
AM need to make a product for women and rhenDBX is a good start in that direction. It needs to orientate it’s brand towards a younger demographic. It does need electricity!! And it does need to clearly expand the brand beyond just cars. Its brand has a pretty clear and strong definition in many ways and that can be applied to a wide range of luxury goods.
The only problem with Stroll is that ultimately he is just a pensioner whomis off shopping and wasting time just like the pensioners who potter along to garden centres and buy some tat to keep them happy at home for a while but on a larger scale.
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