RE: Honda Civic Type R vs. Renault Megane 300 Trophy

[Limpet]

nickfrog said:

I would be embarrassed driving the CTR on the public road at any age. And I normally don't care about image or what other people think as the driving experience counts far more for me. But I'll have to make an exception despite the CTR being such a good steer. On the other hand I am glad it exists and I am sure it makes their owners very happy which is the main thing.

For me, it's more that it sticks out like a sore thumb, even at a distance. That means for every knowing nod or "Nice car, mate" from an enthusiast, will be a dick trying to race you or prove a point, a jealous chav with a key, or a Mr Dingers type trying to relieve you of it. Historically, I would have added police attention as well, but you don't really see them on the roads any more.

All society's fault, rather than the car's of course, but still very real considerations in the UK in 2019. One of the big things that attracted me to my M140i is that it looks, to the casual eye at least, like just another of the scores of 1 series M Sports you see every day. If you know what to look for, it's obvious of course, but doesn't shout what it is from 200yds away. Scanning a busy car park, you wouldn't pick it out.

I appreciate that this is a big negative for some people, and the driving experience trumps such things, and good luck to them. However as someone who drives all over the country and has to leave a car in places that perhaps they wouldn't choose to, I'd worry sick about driving something that stands out so much.

[Derek Chevalier]

charltjr said:

macky17 said:

End of first para: “...so why would the this one?”

Predictable result. Drove an fk8 the other day and it’s terrific even, as is mentioned, on the average tyres. A set of PS4s and it would ride and handle even better. Bright red for me I think and who cares what anyone thinks of the wing if you’re enjoying every drive more than they are?

I suspect a lot of people don’t realise how good the Contisport 6 actually is. Reviews put it toe to toe with the PS4S - some reviews have it as better than the Michelin some say it’s worse so it’s clearly very application specific. A set of the non-S PS4 would be a downgrade.

You’re looking at a Cup tyre (with the associated compromises in poor conditions) to get much better.

It’s very disappointing that PH didn’t bother to research the tyre more thoroughly before labelling it as a relatively average tyre.

For the Civic I think they're excellent, and agreed Cup2s are the only way to improve (in certain areas).

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Sport-Au...

[nickfrog]

likesachange said:

Kind of highlights you are very conscious of your image. Which is fine, most are tbh

I'd still usher anyone to try it!

As I said, you'll struggle to find someone who gives less of a st about image than me which simply highlights how incongrous looking the CTR is for me, so I'll make an exception. I did drive it and it's a fantastic car although I don't like aftermarket wheels and any bigger than 18 is a pain on track for tyre choice. The Megane ticks more of my boxes functionally, is cheaper and looks like a car rather than a 1980s Japanese cartoon character.

[nickfrog]

Derek Chevalier said:

For the Civic I think they're excellent, and agreed Cup2s are the only way to improve (in certain areas).

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Sport-Au...

AD08rs are a very good choice too with a proper semi carcass and full tread depth.

[Derek Chevalier]

nickfrog said:

Derek Chevalier said:

For the Civic I think they're excellent, and agreed Cup2s are the only way to improve (in certain areas).

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2019-Sport-Au...

AD08rs are a very good choice too with a proper semi carcass and full tread depth.

I don't think they come in 20s unfortunately, and I think it's hard to get smaller wheels for the FK8 with the correct offset.

[likesachange]

nickfrog said:

As I said, you'll struggle to find someone who gives less of a st about image than me which simply highlights how incongrous looking the CTR is for me, so I'll make an exception. I did drive it and it's a fantastic car although I don't like aftermarket wheels and any bigger than 18 is a pain on track for tyre choice. The Megane ticks more of my boxes functionally, is cheaper and looks like a car rather than a 1980s Japanese cartoon character.

That's quite a good description ha 1980's Japanese cartoon character.
So it was fantastic to drive but not quite good enough to get past it's looks??

I agree Mégane is a looker imo. Looks superb.
But the fact it looks unlikely I'm going to get to try one. No journos rate it above the civic which is disappointing from a Renault fan.

The other point is the civic has all the toys and a big boot for the occasional family duties..

[nickfrog]

likesachange said:

That's quite a good description ha 1980's Japanese cartoon character.
So it was fantastic to drive but not quite good enough to get past it's looks??

I agree Mégane is a looker imo. Looks superb.
But the fact it looks unlikely I'm going to get to try one. No journos rate it above the civic which is disappointing from a Renault fan.

The other point is the civic has all the toys and a big boot for the occasional family duties..

I wouldn't take much notice what the journos say really apart from a couple like Catchpole, there is an element of subjectivity too. I really don't care about looks but not to the point where I could own the Civic, I know it sounds weird and contradictory. The Megane makes for a better trackable daily, slightly sharper turn in, more rear end mobility. Not sure about toys as the Megane has everything I need. And the killer is the wheel size, more than 18 just doesn't work well on track unless you spend a lot of money on a very limited choice of compounds (the fact that the Trophy is on 19 only is strange too). In terms of size, it's plenty big enough for my bike at the rear, which is all I need. A Cup 280 works out at £26k, which is also a pull. The Honda remains an excellent choice for the road.

[likesachange]

nickfrog said:

I wouldn't take much notice what the journos say really apart from a couple like Catchpole, there is an element of subjectivity too. I really don't care about looks but not to the point where I could own the Civic, I know it sounds weird and contradictory. The Megane makes for a better trackable daily, slightly sharper turn in, more rear end mobility. Not sure about toys as the Megane has everything I need. And the killer is the wheel size, more than 18 just doesn't work well on track unless you spend a lot of money on a very limited choice of compounds (the fact that the Trophy is on 19 only is strange too). In terms of size, it's plenty big enough for my bike at the rear, which is all I need. A Cup 280 works out at £26k, which is also a pull. The Honda remains an excellent choice for the road.

I generally don't listen to journos but as said there's nowhere currently to even try a trophy (certainly within any reasonable distance from me) I've had to resort to reviews... It's unanimous that the civic is considerably better on track as good on road and also as vulgar to look at.

One Renault dealer insisted that I ordered yesterday to avoid price increases... Not sure what the increases are but left a little foul taste in my mouth

[nickfrog]

likesachange said:

It's unanimous that the civic is considerably better on track

Not sure about unanimous. And not sure what you mean by better. Not many have driven both back to back on track. Have you?

[Derek Chevalier]

nickfrog said:

likesachange said:

It's unanimous that the civic is considerably better on track

Not sure about unanimous. And not sure what you mean by better. Not many have driven both back to back on track. Have you?

I haven't driven the Megane on track. Sutcliffe seemed to prefer the Civic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ9mFuqdOZ0

My observations, based on 1 track session is that the Civic is very impressive even when driving very hard. Some may prefer a more lively back end. Cooling is marginal so maybe the Renault would be better in this respect.

[Derek Chevalier]

likesachange said:

But I think your nuts buying new cash.

Why?

[likesachange]

nickfrog said:

Not sure about unanimous. And not sure what you mean by better. Not many have driven both back to back on track. Have you?

Well I'm yet to find or see any that say otherwise. Please link me any that say the Mégane is the better handling car. After all I am a Renault fan and want it to be the better car.

And that's a bit stupid asking "have you?" when I've stated a number of times that I've not even driven the Mégane (due to Renault's poor network) and only a couple of hours of road driving in civic...

[likesachange]

Derek Chevalier said:

Why?

Just because of the 6k plus of your savings/liquid cash is immediately gone.. monthlies I still have my savings in tact. Obviously many say don't buy what you can't afford blah blah.. I'm not one of those.. I don't want my savings in a heavily depreciating item..
That's just my financial thinking wrong or right (I am aware that I will be paying interest and more overall btw).

Let's not sidetrack the civic Vs Mégane thread on who's got the most money

[likesachange]

Derek Chevalier said:

I haven't driven the Megane on track. Sutcliffe seemed to prefer the Civic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQ9mFuqdOZ0

My observations, based on 1 track session is that the Civic is very impressive even when driving very hard. Some may prefer a more lively back end. Cooling is marginal so maybe the Renault would be better in this respect.

That's the thing Mégane is no doubt more playful so chances are more fun on track. So that's a positive.
Also that's not the trophy albeit cup chassis and no doubt bi-material brakes etc... But still the i30n (Hyundai's first hot hatch ?) is a fair bit quicker on a short track and being heavier concludes the Mégane disappoints from previous models

[macky17]

Derek Chevalier said:

likesachange said:

But I think your nuts buying new cash.

Why?

His nuts are doing what?

[Chestrockwell]

Derek Chevalier said:

likesachange said:

But I think your nuts buying new cash.

Why?

Got for a 67 reg one, I got mine for 24k with 9k miles, 1 owner and a service pack

[likesachange]

Chestrockwell said:

Got for a 67 reg one, I got mine for 24k with 9k miles, 1 owner and a service pack

Was that private!? Great deal

[Chestrockwell]

likesachange said:

Chestrockwell said:

Got for a 67 reg one, I got mine for 24k with 9k miles, 1 owner and a service pack

Was that private!? Great deal

Yes, there’s a few for sale now, no more than 6 at a time which is a testament to how good these cars are.

I bought my BMW nearly 3 years ago, part loan part cash, sold it for 16500 and paid the rest cash towards the Civic. Buying makes a lot more sense that way because when it’s PCP, the car is never yours and there are all sorts of restrictions etc.

[Chestrockwell]

I haven’t driven the Renault and I don’t need to, the Honda is so good, It’s enough for me and I’m truly content with the car to the point where, I don’t look at other cars and think ‘wow that could be better’ or ‘I should have bought that one’.

I’ve had the car a month now and oh my god it just gets better and better by the day, it comes complete from the factory, none of this cup, trophy, R waffle, no options, buy the GT spec and drive off. I had a look at the Renault on AT before I bought mine and the fact that they were so cheap compared to the Civic put me off, I want to buy something that is going to hold its value and come complete, don’t want to be finding the right spec etc.

One thing that took away the small chance of me going for the Renault was the seats, they look hideous!








It’s things like that which put me off french cars, crap quality like that.

Look at the Hondas seats in comparison.

Edited by Chestrockwell on Sunday 30th June 20:02

[CraigV6]

Just goes to show that looks are hugely subjective.
The interior of the Civic is almost as hideous as the exterior.