RE: VW ID.R breaks outright Goodwood record
Discussion
Sway said:
cidered77 said:
Max_Torque said:
Prizam said:
One of the new Gould cars, I think would get close to the 30s mark.
wait, you think they would be 25% faster overall than the current fastest cars ever run? Hmm, i'm pretty dam sure not!Except they've also got the benefit of instantaneous torque, and the best possible feedback loop for traction control.
we may never know but i 100% stand by statement of "closer to 30 than 40 seconds".
If someone has the time or patience, you could check the time of that BMW M3 Judd thing at Goodwood at an event where Scott Moran also competed, work out the percentage difference to the VW, and try and draw a more data based argument for this.... the data is out there am sure.
Sway said:
I do pseudo-engineering with the best...
My understanding, which I hope Max or similar will correct, is that you've got a motor for each tyre - that motor is also able to directly 'detect' wheelslip, and is controlled purely via electronics, with a massively rapid refresh rate.
The critical factors are that not only does the EV powertrain have a much lower rotating inertia, but that the torque of the eMachine can be modulated very rapidly, and fully bi-directionally.My understanding, which I hope Max or similar will correct, is that you've got a motor for each tyre - that motor is also able to directly 'detect' wheelslip, and is controlled purely via electronics, with a massively rapid refresh rate.
This means that as mentioned tyre slip can be very closely controlled, and hence tyre adhesion maximsed under all dynamic conditions, including things where the tyre load is changing very rapidly, like during a launch, hitting kerbs, or turning sharp corners where the vertical load on the tyre changes quickly, and resonances in the tyre carcass can reduce grip.
In all cases, slip is accurately determined by precisely measuring true wheel speed, with direct sensing (abs wheel speed sensors for example) and comparing those speeds to a "true" vehicle speed and vector which these days comes from a fusion of multiple data sources, including actual measured data (like speed from a GPS receiver) and sythesised / estimated data from higher level measurements like accelerometers and yaw sensors, using a Kalman filter to blend those data sources appropriately.
By controlling macroslip in real time at around 1Khz, the tyres grip is maxised to a level beyond that which can be realised with a "dumb" conventional powertrain.........
cidered77 said:
Sway said:
cidered77 said:
Max_Torque said:
Prizam said:
One of the new Gould cars, I think would get close to the 30s mark.
wait, you think they would be 25% faster overall than the current fastest cars ever run? Hmm, i'm pretty dam sure not!Except they've also got the benefit of instantaneous torque, and the best possible feedback loop for traction control.
we may never know but i 100% stand by statement of "closer to 30 than 40 seconds".
If someone has the time or patience, you could check the time of that BMW M3 Judd thing at Goodwood at an event where Scott Moran also competed, work out the percentage difference to the VW, and try and draw a more data based argument for this.... the data is out there am sure.
https://petrolicious.com/articles/this-judd-v8-pow...
I'm still surprised there are others who still prefer ultimate speed compared to fun. The VW far more boring than a lot of the cars going up it. As a passenger either Solberg would have given you a far more interesting drive..
Goodwood 2069 will be interesting :-
Commentator "And here is the 50 year old VW id r that set 39.9s in 2019. Just listen to the glorious sound of its old electric motor"
Co-commentator " wow, sounds like my old hoover before I got the quantum dust displacer"
Goodwood 2069 will be interesting :-
Commentator "And here is the 50 year old VW id r that set 39.9s in 2019. Just listen to the glorious sound of its old electric motor"
Co-commentator " wow, sounds like my old hoover before I got the quantum dust displacer"
Max_Torque said:
Sway said:
I do pseudo-engineering with the best...
My understanding, which I hope Max or similar will correct, is that you've got a motor for each tyre - that motor is also able to directly 'detect' wheelslip, and is controlled purely via electronics, with a massively rapid refresh rate.
The critical factors are that not only does the EV powertrain have a much lower rotating inertia, but that the torque of the eMachine can be modulated very rapidly, and fully bi-directionally.My understanding, which I hope Max or similar will correct, is that you've got a motor for each tyre - that motor is also able to directly 'detect' wheelslip, and is controlled purely via electronics, with a massively rapid refresh rate.
This means that as mentioned tyre slip can be very closely controlled, and hence tyre adhesion maximsed under all dynamic conditions, including things where the tyre load is changing very rapidly, like during a launch, hitting kerbs, or turning sharp corners where the vertical load on the tyre changes quickly, and resonances in the tyre carcass can reduce grip.
In all cases, slip is accurately determined by precisely measuring true wheel speed, with direct sensing (abs wheel speed sensors for example) and comparing those speeds to a "true" vehicle speed and vector which these days comes from a fusion of multiple data sources, including actual measured data (like speed from a GPS receiver) and sythesised / estimated data from higher level measurements like accelerometers and yaw sensors, using a Kalman filter to blend those data sources appropriately.
By controlling macroslip in real time at around 1Khz, the tyres grip is maxised to a level beyond that which can be realised with a "dumb" conventional powertrain.........
In the latter case (as presented in the majority of production scenarios) you have some fairly difficult obstacles (CAN latency and processor time) that mean the control can in fact be worse than a traditionally laggy ICE powertrain. If you try a standing start on ice in almost all EVs (barring Tesla.....as they had the flexibility to deliver a domain based control strategy) and you'll get some pretty horrendous wheel control as a result of the fact your motor can deliver 200Nm of torque in the time it takes the wheel speed signal to get from the ABS wheelspeed senors to the powertrain control module.
Gandahar said:
I'm still surprised there are others who still prefer ultimate speed compared to fun. The VW far more boring than a lot of the cars going up it. As a passenger either Solberg would have given you a far more interesting drive..
Goodwood 2069 will be interesting :-
Commentator "And here is the 50 year old VW id r that set 39.9s in 2019. Just listen to the glorious sound of its old electric motor"
Co-commentator " wow, sounds like my old hoover before I got the quantum dust displacer"
Why do you have to favor one over the other? Why can't they all be appreciated?Goodwood 2069 will be interesting :-
Commentator "And here is the 50 year old VW id r that set 39.9s in 2019. Just listen to the glorious sound of its old electric motor"
Co-commentator " wow, sounds like my old hoover before I got the quantum dust displacer"
The internet has done this do us: made everything a binary, or a right vs. wrong. I love technology, i love looking to the future and exciting possibilities it holds. I also loved watching that Bugatti Type 53 and that hugely committed GT40 roar up the hill, as much as I was amazed at the speed of the hoover.
cidered77 said:
Why do you have to favor one over the other? Why can't they all be appreciated?
The internet has done this do us: made everything a binary, or a right vs. wrong. I love technology, i love looking to the future and exciting possibilities it holds. I also loved watching that Bugatti Type 53 and that hugely committed GT40 roar up the hill, as much as I was amazed at the speed of the hoover.
+1The internet has done this do us: made everything a binary, or a right vs. wrong. I love technology, i love looking to the future and exciting possibilities it holds. I also loved watching that Bugatti Type 53 and that hugely committed GT40 roar up the hill, as much as I was amazed at the speed of the hoover.
once people have some cash they'll frequently have a garage along the lines of-
Track special
old classic
hot hatch
RR or Tesla
Cyder said:
The new Leaf battery will comfortably do 200 miles on a charge, stop somewhere for a coffee and do the fast charge in 30 mins and it’ll give you about another 80% range 160 miles or so.
I don't want to stop for half an hour for a coffee. My current car will comfortably do 800 miles to a brimmed tank, so I could do that journey multiple times without a 'recharge' and even when I do need to fill up it'd cost me more actual cash, sure, but i'd be done and on my way in a couple of minutes.As a point. I recently did lincolnshire to devon and back in the same day, 440 miles door to door, without stopping (other than to collect the ebay item I had bought) it took me a little over 7 and a half hours at NSL cruising. Same journey in a brand new leaf assuming I could've taken the 200 mile range for gospel would've taken 9 hours if I could find fast chargers on route, or 23 and a half hours if I could only find standard EV stations.
I'd have been about 10 hours late for work at that rate.
viciousj377o said:
I don't want to stop for half an hour for a coffee. My current car will comfortably do 800 miles to a brimmed tank, so I could do that journey multiple times without a 'recharge' and even when I do need to fill up it'd cost me more actual cash, sure, but i'd be done and on my way in a couple of minutes.
As a point. I recently did lincolnshire to devon and back in the same day, 440 miles door to door, without stopping (other than to collect the ebay item I had bought) it took me a little over 7 and a half hours at NSL cruising. Same journey in a brand new leaf assuming I could've taken the 200 mile range for gospel would've taken 9 hours if I could find fast chargers on route, or 23 and a half hours if I could only find standard EV stations.
I'd have been about 10 hours late for work at that rate.
If EVs stop people driving for 7.5 hours solid, that's probably not a bad thing for everyone else on the road.As a point. I recently did lincolnshire to devon and back in the same day, 440 miles door to door, without stopping (other than to collect the ebay item I had bought) it took me a little over 7 and a half hours at NSL cruising. Same journey in a brand new leaf assuming I could've taken the 200 mile range for gospel would've taken 9 hours if I could find fast chargers on route, or 23 and a half hours if I could only find standard EV stations.
I'd have been about 10 hours late for work at that rate.
Truck drivers are legally obliged to take a 45 minute break after 4.5 hours driving.
ah, true to form we have #4 on the list shared a few posts above.... the "i don't want an EV because i can think up a scenario where i drive for hundreds of miles non-stop without contemplating a stop for lunch and/or a poo" argument.
Come on - driving regularly more than 200 miles represents a teeny tiny use case for majority of motorists. And if you're in that minority, just keep your diesel car then or wait a few years before EV range doubles.
Come on - driving regularly more than 200 miles represents a teeny tiny use case for majority of motorists. And if you're in that minority, just keep your diesel car then or wait a few years before EV range doubles.
cidered77 said:
ah, true to form we have #4 on the list shared a few posts above.... the "i don't want an EV because i can think up a scenario where i drive for hundreds of miles non-stop without contemplating a stop for lunch and/or a poo" argument.
Come on - driving regularly more than 200 miles represents a teeny tiny use case for majority of motorists. And if you're in that minority, just keep your diesel car then or wait a few years before EV range doubles.
I dont want an EV because.......Come on - driving regularly more than 200 miles represents a teeny tiny use case for majority of motorists. And if you're in that minority, just keep your diesel car then or wait a few years before EV range doubles.
I find them all rather dull
otolith said:
viciousj377o said:
I don't want to stop for half an hour for a coffee. My current car will comfortably do 800 miles to a brimmed tank, so I could do that journey multiple times without a 'recharge' and even when I do need to fill up it'd cost me more actual cash, sure, but i'd be done and on my way in a couple of minutes.
As a point. I recently did lincolnshire to devon and back in the same day, 440 miles door to door, without stopping (other than to collect the ebay item I had bought) it took me a little over 7 and a half hours at NSL cruising. Same journey in a brand new leaf assuming I could've taken the 200 mile range for gospel would've taken 9 hours if I could find fast chargers on route, or 23 and a half hours if I could only find standard EV stations.
I'd have been about 10 hours late for work at that rate.
If EVs stop people driving for 7.5 hours solid, that's probably not a bad thing for everyone else on the road.As a point. I recently did lincolnshire to devon and back in the same day, 440 miles door to door, without stopping (other than to collect the ebay item I had bought) it took me a little over 7 and a half hours at NSL cruising. Same journey in a brand new leaf assuming I could've taken the 200 mile range for gospel would've taken 9 hours if I could find fast chargers on route, or 23 and a half hours if I could only find standard EV stations.
I'd have been about 10 hours late for work at that rate.
Truck drivers are legally obliged to take a 45 minute break after 4.5 hours driving.
However, for the vast majority (read 99%) of cars users who never do more than 100miles in one journey in their entire lifetime, even a current generation EV would absolutely suffice. In fact, something many people realise after a very short amount of time that their fears of owning an EV were totally unfounded. Nearly every journey any of us do could be completed without any trepidation at all in an EV.
tenmantaylor said:
DoubleD said:
Yeah a Turbo Hybrid
I'm just being sarcastic toward the "I bet a proper petrol car would be faster" when they are also electrically aided these days...I'm sure a modern F1 car could beat that time. Without electric deployment it would be a tougher ask though.
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