RE: VW ID.R breaks outright Goodwood record

[J4CKO]

viciousj377o said:

Cyder said:

The new Leaf battery will comfortably do 200 miles on a charge, stop somewhere for a coffee and do the fast charge in 30 mins and it’ll give you about another 80% range 160 miles or so.

I don't want to stop for half an hour for a coffee. My current car will comfortably do 800 miles to a brimmed tank, so I could do that journey multiple times without a 'recharge' and even when I do need to fill up it'd cost me more actual cash, sure, but i'd be done and on my way in a couple of minutes.

As a point. I recently did lincolnshire to devon and back in the same day, 440 miles door to door, without stopping (other than to collect the ebay item I had bought) it took me a little over 7 and a half hours at NSL cruising. Same journey in a brand new leaf assuming I could've taken the 200 mile range for gospel would've taken 9 hours if I could find fast chargers on route, or 23 and a half hours if I could only find standard EV stations.

I'd have been about 10 hours late for work at that rate.

Well, perhaps for you, for that journey, it was the wrong tool for the job ? Which is fair enough.

But, that is now, ICE ranges aren't going to change but EV ones will improve, what isn't easily viable today will be viable in the next few years.

I wonder if EV ranges will surpass ICE ranges, a Tesla with the 250 watt hour capacity will do 300 miles, Solid state batteries promise potentially four times that, 280 wh/hr has already been achieved so an improvement, not huge but an improvement nontheless.

I think wh/hr is going to be a key metric to keep an "Ion"

[cidered77]

DoubleD said:

tenmantaylor said:

DoubleD said:

Yeah a Turbo Hybrid

I'm just being sarcastic toward the "I bet a proper petrol car would be faster" when they are also electrically aided these days...

I'm sure a modern F1 car could beat that time. Without electric deployment it would be a tougher ask though.

F1 teams work to current regulations. If they were allowed to, they could make a faster petrol only car and I imagine they could also make a faster electric car.

on that i agree- they could make a lighter, more powerful petrol only car if they wanted to.

but not one that does all that and burns less energy. that really is beyond physics.

Current F1 engines increased power vs. the V8s and consume 50% as much energy in doing so. An absolute masterpiece of engineering, incredible results - not talked about nearly enough. Instead it's always "they need to sound like V10s".

Anyway, digressing again....

[DoubleD]

cidered77 said:

DoubleD said:

tenmantaylor said:

DoubleD said:

Yeah a Turbo Hybrid

I'm just being sarcastic toward the "I bet a proper petrol car would be faster" when they are also electrically aided these days...

I'm sure a modern F1 car could beat that time. Without electric deployment it would be a tougher ask though.

F1 teams work to current regulations. If they were allowed to, they could make a faster petrol only car and I imagine they could also make a faster electric car.

on that i agree- they could make a lighter, more powerful petrol only car if they wanted to.

but not one that does all that and burns less energy. that really is beyond physics.

Current F1 engines increased power vs. the V8s and consume 50% as much energy in doing so. An absolute masterpiece of engineering, incredible results - not talked about nearly enough. Instead it's always "they need to sound like V10s".

Anyway, digressing again....

They are very efficient, but the V10s were far more exciting to listen to as they went passed. I find that more interesting as a spectator than thinking about how efficient they are.

[J4CKO]

DoubleD said:

cidered77 said:

DoubleD said:

tenmantaylor said:

DoubleD said:

Yeah a Turbo Hybrid

I'm just being sarcastic toward the "I bet a proper petrol car would be faster" when they are also electrically aided these days...

I'm sure a modern F1 car could beat that time. Without electric deployment it would be a tougher ask though.

F1 teams work to current regulations. If they were allowed to, they could make a faster petrol only car and I imagine they could also make a faster electric car.

on that i agree- they could make a lighter, more powerful petrol only car if they wanted to.

but not one that does all that and burns less energy. that really is beyond physics.

Current F1 engines increased power vs. the V8s and consume 50% as much energy in doing so. An absolute masterpiece of engineering, incredible results - not talked about nearly enough. Instead it's always "they need to sound like V10s".

Anyway, digressing again....

They are very efficient, but the V10s were far more exciting to listen to as they went passed. I find that more interesting as a spectator than thinking about how efficient they are.

I know most of the wasted energy is heat with an IC engine, I wonder how much power is converted into noise ? I had a 350Z and I swear that used about 20 percent of its power generating an impressive noise.

I wonder how much power the noise of an F1 car would take to generate, its probably not that much in reality but it must use some, would a reasonably meaty PA system replicate it ?

[cidered77]

DoubleD said:

cidered77 said:

DoubleD said:

tenmantaylor said:

DoubleD said:

Yeah a Turbo Hybrid

I'm just being sarcastic toward the "I bet a proper petrol car would be faster" when they are also electrically aided these days...

I'm sure a modern F1 car could beat that time. Without electric deployment it would be a tougher ask though.

F1 teams work to current regulations. If they were allowed to, they could make a faster petrol only car and I imagine they could also make a faster electric car.

on that i agree- they could make a lighter, more powerful petrol only car if they wanted to.

but not one that does all that and burns less energy. that really is beyond physics.

Current F1 engines increased power vs. the V8s and consume 50% as much energy in doing so. An absolute masterpiece of engineering, incredible results - not talked about nearly enough. Instead it's always "they need to sound like V10s".

Anyway, digressing again....

They are very efficient, but the V10s were far more exciting to listen to as they went passed. I find that more interesting as a spectator than thinking about how efficient they are.

if they were still V10s - it would be all customer cars, few/no manufacturers, save Ferrari, who would be totally dominant - and we would complain that it isn't exciting or glamorous enough without the big boys involved anymore. Or - exactly as LMP1 has become since the glory years of a few years back.

Merc, Renault, Honda.... none of them would put squillions into F1 without some kind of road relevance. It was a great time (crap racing mostly with the V10s, but we gloss over that), but it was of it's time.

Motorsport should be always about pushing the boundaries of technology and whilst i loved the noise, i also love how much racing can demonstrate what technology can do....more power and half the fuel i personally find amazing.

[Fastdruid]

cidered77 said:

Motorsport should be always about pushing the boundaries of technology and whilst i loved the noise, i also love how much racing can demonstrate what technology can do....more power and half the fuel i personally find amazing.

I'd rather they just said "you get x litres of fuel to last the race, the car can't weigh less than y and the car has to be to these maximum/minimum dimensions" and let them get on with it.

It's not about the technology as engines are proscribed and anything interesting is promptly banned.

In some ways the EV cars are way better than F1 because they are not as limited in what they can do and not proscribed in how everything has to be.

[DoubleD]

cidered77 said:

DoubleD said:

cidered77 said:

DoubleD said:

tenmantaylor said:

DoubleD said:

Yeah a Turbo Hybrid

I'm just being sarcastic toward the "I bet a proper petrol car would be faster" when they are also electrically aided these days...

I'm sure a modern F1 car could beat that time. Without electric deployment it would be a tougher ask though.

F1 teams work to current regulations. If they were allowed to, they could make a faster petrol only car and I imagine they could also make a faster electric car.

on that i agree- they could make a lighter, more powerful petrol only car if they wanted to.

but not one that does all that and burns less energy. that really is beyond physics.

Current F1 engines increased power vs. the V8s and consume 50% as much energy in doing so. An absolute masterpiece of engineering, incredible results - not talked about nearly enough. Instead it's always "they need to sound like V10s".

Anyway, digressing again....

They are very efficient, but the V10s were far more exciting to listen to as they went passed. I find that more interesting as a spectator than thinking about how efficient they are.

if they were still V10s - it would be all customer cars, few/no manufacturers, save Ferrari, who would be totally dominant - and we would complain that it isn't exciting or glamorous enough without the big boys involved anymore. Or - exactly as LMP1 has become since the glory years of a few years back.

Merc, Renault, Honda.... none of them would put squillions into F1 without some kind of road relevance. It was a great time (crap racing mostly with the V10s, but we gloss over that), but it was of it's time.

Motorsport should be always about pushing the boundaries of technology and whilst i loved the noise, i also love how much racing can demonstrate what technology can do....more power and half the fuel i personally find amazing.

Well we will have to agree to disagree then.

[cidered77]

Fastdruid said:

I'd rather they just said "you get x litres of fuel to last the race, the car can't weigh less than y and the car has to be to these maximum/minimum dimensions" and let them get on with it.

It's not about the technology as engines are proscribed and anything interesting is promptly banned.

In some ways the EV cars are way better than F1 because they are not as limited in what they can do and not proscribed in how everything has to be.

But - it's not as if these things arent thought about, right? No motorsport formula runs to that - anywhere really. For very goods reasons. LMP1 was closest recently - and what happened there? Same as any form of motorsport without cost control: it becomes an arms race, and the racing becomes totally dominated by one car and one team. And that's that. It's a pattern that repeats itself over and over. So you either have regs defined tightly to try and control the arms race (and fail in case of F1, but at least face with 4 manufacturers still in the sport), or you BoP them - which people would hate in F1 even more.

If we took your rules you would have one team get it right and be out front. They engineer the car to make passing even harder than today so they would be even more dominant, and then everyone copy them anyway, and then spend even more, then teams pull out because nobody wants to spend 300m losing, etc etc.

So we need regulations to try and control the sporting side, but the regulations should continually push the boundaries of what it possible and more us forward. Which may even mean Formula 1 is EV one day without any noise... i'll be sad, but i'll still have historic racing to watch if i want to hear the brrm brrms.

[DoubleD]

Motorsport needs to be exciting for the spectator to watch, otherwise whats the point.

[Pvapour]

DoubleD said:

Motorsport needs to be exciting for the spectator to watch, otherwise whats the point.

Something i saw on click was that formula e as part of their usp are developing the ability to race live in your own virtual car against the other racers, you car will overlay on the tv like a video game, quite a cool direction i think, to create excitement by involving spectators..

[big_rob_sydney]

CABC said:

+1

once people have some cash they'll frequently have a garage along the lines of-
Track special
old classic
hot hatch
RR or Tesla

Do you have a stable with 4 types of horses? I don't. I don't give a rats arse about outdated modes of transport. And while I'm sure there are some folks who do, they would be an extreme minority. That will be you at some point.

[RichB]

big_rob_sydney said:

CABC said:

+1

once people have some cash they'll frequently have a garage along the lines of-
Track special
old classic
hot hatch
RR or Tesla

Do you have a stable with 4 types of horses? I don't. I don't give a rats arse about outdated modes of transport. And while I'm sure there are some folks who do, they would be an extreme minority. That will be you at some point.

So if I've got you correctly, you don't give a rat's arse about Duncan Pittaway's Beast of Turin or the 1920's Le Mans Bentleys at the FoS? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[tr3a]

Nerdherder said:

Why get all dramatic about it?

It's the five stages of grief. You can recognise them in many a luddite's rant here.

[RobDickinson]

To be fair the beast of Turin probably sucks at an 800 mile commute too.

[RB Will]

RobDickinson said:

To be fair the beast of Turin probably sucks at an 800 mile commute too.

In the commentary on YouTube they said it was driven to and from the event

[RichB]

RB Will said:

RobDickinson said:

To be fair the beast of Turin probably sucks at an 800 mile commute too.

In the commentary on YouTube they said it was driven to and from the event

There's a great video somewhere of it being driven through London after the City Concours weekend a few weeks ago.

Not this one but you get the idea! https://youtu.be/eToHTf-QUBA?t=163

Edited by RichB on Wednesday 10th July 10:05

[TobyTR]

cidered77 said:

if they were still V10s - it would be all customer cars, few/no manufacturers, save Ferrari, who would be totally dominant - and we would complain that it isn't exciting or glamorous enough without the big boys involved anymore. Or - exactly as LMP1 has become since the glory years of a few years back.

Merc, Renault, Honda.... none of them would put squillions into F1 without some kind of road relevance. It was a great time (crap racing mostly with the V10s, but we gloss over that), but it was of it's time.

Motorsport should be always about pushing the boundaries of technology and whilst i loved the noise, i also love how much racing can demonstrate what technology can do....more power and half the fuel i personally find amazing.

The current (expensive) hybrid engine regs are actually holding back more manufacturers from being in F1 - Williams budget this year is 160 million, to be by far the slowest on the grid. Contrast that to Minardi having a similarly fast car in 2004 on a 40 million budget. Brundle nailed it when he said they need a cheaper, simpler hybrid V10 or V12 - that's the way supercar manufacturers are going. That would entice manufacturers back in F1 like BMW and Toyota etc.

V10s and V12s were never road-relevant for the likes of Renault, Ford etc in the 90s, unless you count that one-off Espace with an F1 engine in it...

On the subject of this hill-climb, Heikki Kovalainen recently confirmed on twitter he ran a low 39 second lap up the hill at 2006 Goodwood FOS, in a 2005 Renault V10 F1 car - but for whatever reason the lap wasn't allowed to count as official

A suitably set-up Ferrari F2004 would possibly dip into the high 38sec... now that would be spectacular viewing, but Goodwood won't allow it because it doesn't fit in with their agenda.

Edited by TobyTR on Wednesday 10th July 00:42

[CABC]

big_rob_sydney said:

CABC said:

+1

once people have some cash they'll frequently have a garage along the lines of-
Track special
old classic
hot hatch
RR or Tesla

Do you have a stable with 4 types of horses? I don't. I don't give a rats arse about outdated modes of transport. And while I'm sure there are some folks who do, they would be an extreme minority. That will be you at some point.

strange reply.
anyway, goodnight.

[Welshbeef]

TobyTR said:

The current (expensive) hybrid engine regs are actually holding back more manufacturers from being in F1 - Williams budget this year is 160 million, to be by far the slowest on the grid. Contrast that to Minardi having a similarly fast car in 2004 on a 40 million budget. Brundle nailed it when he said they need a cheaper, simpler hybrid V10 or V12 - that's the way supercar manufacturers are going. That would entice manufacturers back in F1 like BMW and Toyota etc.

V10s and V12s were never road-relevant for the likes of Renault, Ford etc in the 90s, unless you count that one-off Espace with an F1 engine in it...

On the subject of this hill-climb, Heikki Kovalainen recently confirmed on twitter he ran a low 39 second lap up the hill at 2006 Goodwood FOS, in a 2005 Renault V10 F1 car - but for whatever reason the lap wasn't allowed to count as official

A suitably set-up Ferrari F2004 would possibly dip into the high 38sec... now that would be spectacular viewing, but Goodwood won't allow it because it doesn't fit in with their agenda.

Edited by TobyTR on Wednesday 10th July 00:42

U ok hun?
Agenda - tin foil hat stuff

[T-195]

CABC said:

big_rob_sydney said:

CABC said:

+1

once people have some cash they'll frequently have a garage along the lines of-
Track special
old classic
hot hatch
RR or Tesla

Do you have a stable with 4 types of horses? I don't. I don't give a rats arse about outdated modes of transport. And while I'm sure there are some folks who do, they would be an extreme minority. That will be you at some point.

strange reply.
anyway, goodnight.

Pushbikes and motorbikes maybe?

Trains?