RE: Mercedes-AMG A35 vs VW Golf R | PH Video

[J4CKO]

Chestrockwell said:

DoubleD said:

Deep Thought said:

J4CKO said:

Chestrockwell said:

legless said:

Likewise, the Ford GT isn't special, nor the Dodge Viper, with their truck engines. I'd also rule out a Veyron on the basis that half of its engine can be found under the bonnet of a Passat.

Not taking away anything from the A35 and Golf R but they’re normal premium hatchbacks with powerful engines. I’d say they’re warm hatchbacks if anything.

Is that where we are where a 300 bhp hatch only rates as warm ?

I suppose when you can get 400 plus bhp ones it does kind of knock them down a notch.

That would make a Type R a warm hatch too then....

Arent all hot hatchbacks, Honda included, normal hatchbacks with a few tweeks?

Not necessarily, to me, a complete hot hatch would be the RS3, A45 S, Civic Type R and the latest Megane Trophy R, they’re cars that don’t have options to make them dynamically better.

The M135i/M140i is deliberately held back so it doesn’t step on the M2’s toes.

The rest are 7/10ths cars, the M140i drove a year ago was brilliant and would leave my Civic for dead most of the time but the harder you push it, the less confidence you feel. The MK7.5 Golf GTI I had for 2 months is nothing more than an already great Golf with a powerful engine. Doesn’t come anywhere near my Civic and rightly so, it’s a warm hatch. I mention the Golf GTI as I imagine the Golf R would be similar. Correct me if I’m wrong

The R has quite a few differences to the GTI but I dotn think it is super focused, just a bit more capable than a GTI, but that is still enough for them to be brilliant, when it gets cold and damp, when the Civic is spinning its wheels and the BMW is trying to swap ends and flashing the little yellow light, the R would just ps off into the distance.

The BMW's are pretty capable but dont inspire confidence as they suspension is a bit loose and the steering vague, but they are still pretty formidable across country, just not that enjoyable once you really get on it, some cars get better and better, not the M135i, well mine doesn't.

The Civic is more of a niche choice, see so few of them, I think maybe as they dont seem to do the "Pile them high, flog them cheap" deals like VW did with the MK7 R, the MK7 R you hardly see and the R32 has always been fairly rare in comparison. Same with the BMW, common as much !

Dont see as Many S3's, RS3's and the A45 AMG, the Hot Hatch thing is split between the cars that were easy to get on cheaper deals and the rest.

Civic is there just to make the One Series look handsome

[nickfrog]

Chestrockwell said:

The rest are 7/10ths cars

I don't think you can drive any of those cars at over 7/10ths of performance and friction on the public road without losing your licence and/o physical integrity very quickly.

[DoubleD]

Chestrockwell said:

DoubleD said:

Deep Thought said:

J4CKO said:

Chestrockwell said:

legless said:

Likewise, the Ford GT isn't special, nor the Dodge Viper, with their truck engines. I'd also rule out a Veyron on the basis that half of its engine can be found under the bonnet of a Passat.

Not taking away anything from the A35 and Golf R but they’re normal premium hatchbacks with powerful engines. I’d say they’re warm hatchbacks if anything.

Is that where we are where a 300 bhp hatch only rates as warm ?

I suppose when you can get 400 plus bhp ones it does kind of knock them down a notch.

That would make a Type R a warm hatch too then....

Arent all hot hatchbacks, Honda included, normal hatchbacks with a few tweeks?

Not necessarily, to me, a complete hot hatch would be the RS3, A45 S, Civic Type R and the latest Megane Trophy R, they’re cars that don’t have options to make them dynamically better.

The M135i/M140i is deliberately held back so it doesn’t step on the M2’s toes.

The rest are 7/10ths cars, the M140i drove a year ago was brilliant and would leave my Civic for dead most of the time but the harder you push it, the less confidence you feel. The MK7.5 Golf GTI I had for 2 months is nothing more than an already great Golf with a powerful engine. Doesn’t come anywhere near my Civic and rightly so, it’s a warm hatch. I mention the Golf GTI as I imagine the Golf R would be similar. Correct me if I’m wrong

So you are saying that a Golf GTI isnt a hot hatch?! Or have I misunderstood what you have written?

Hot hatches have always been normal hatchbacks that have been tweeked, your civic is no different.

[anonymous-user]

I think he started by saying the engine was ‘bespoke’ but didn’t get that right, it’s been downhill from there....

Apparently the CTR is ‘completely different’, I love it when marketing gets the better of adults

[anonymous-user]

For those of us of a certain age (cheerfully past it), anything with a turbo / auto / 4WD / will never be a convincing 'hot hatch' ...

The template was and remains:

- light
- practical (plenty of space for family and shopping - everyday cars, not sports cars)
- front wheel drive
- responsiveness at real-world road speeds more important than outright speed / power
- track-day ability irrelevant
- optional 5 doors
- max 4-cyl (for lightness, balance and economy)
- not too dear
- no overly-aggressive styling
- manual
- naturally aspirated (for a proper throttle response)

It's the junior / warm hatches that get closest, though weight and mpg means turbos are mandatory

[DoubleD]

tommy1973s said:

For those of us of a certain age (cheerfully past it), anything with a turbo / auto / 4WD / will never be a convincing 'hot hatch' ...

The template was and remains:

- light
- practical (plenty of space for family and shopping - everyday cars, not sports cars)
- front wheel drive
- responsiveness at real-world road speeds more important than outright speed / power
- track-day ability irrelevant
- optional 5 doors
- max 4-cyl (for lightness, balance and economy)
- not too dear
- no overly-aggressive styling
- manual
- naturally aspirated (for a proper throttle response)

It's the junior / warm hatches that get closest, though weight and mpg means turbos are mandatory

I hadnt realised that there was a rule book about what makes a hot hatch?

[Ultrafunkula]

tommy1973s said:

For those of us of a certain age (cheerfully past it), anything with a turbo / auto / 4WD / will never be a convincing 'hot hatch' ...

The template was and remains:

- light
- practical (plenty of space for family and shopping - everyday cars, not sports cars)
- front wheel drive
- responsiveness at real-world road speeds more important than outright speed / power
- track-day ability irrelevant
- optional 5 doors
- max 4-cyl (for lightness, balance and economy)
- not too dear
- no overly-aggressive styling
- manual
- naturally aspirated (for a proper throttle response)

It's the junior / warm hatches that get closest, though weight and mpg means turbos are mandatory

I think the definitions have changed somewhat since the 80s, I prefer 'a tuned version of a standard hatchback'.

[Chestrockwell]

yonex said:

I think he started by saying the engine was ‘bespoke’ but didn’t get that right, it’s been downhill from there....

Apparently the CTR is ‘completely different’, I love it when marketing gets the better of adults

[DoubleD]

Chestrockwell said:

yonex said:

I think he started by saying the engine was ‘bespoke’ but didn’t get that right, it’s been downhill from there....

Apparently the CTR is ‘completely different’, I love it when marketing gets the better of adults

Good cars, but wow you've really fallen for all the marketing!

[nickfrog]

Chestrockwell said:

When are you ringing yours and what's your target lap time? (I assume you'll have proper tyres rather than when you spun that BMW of yours )

[The Vambo]

Chestrockwell said:

Pfft, Honda even put the wheels on upside down.

Bet you'll never get that on the Merc

[Chestrockwell]

nickfrog said:

When are you ringing yours and what's your target lap time? (I assume you'll have proper tyres rather than when you spun that BMW of yours )

On a serious note I’d love to take it on a track day to get the most out of it but the tyres will cost an arm and a leg.

According to the Type R owners club, that size tyre (245/30/20) is only made for the Civic and the front wheels of a Lamborghini. 220 a pop, I thought I’ll be saving money on tyres after selling the BMW. Believe it or not, I read the Conti sport contact 6’s are prone to aqua planing so I swapped over to P Zeros. The roads are safe now

[Leon R]

Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Alfa Romeo and I think maybe even Citroën use that tyre size too.

[cerb4.5lee]

Chestrockwell said:

According to the Type R owners club, that size tyre (245/30/20) is only made for the Civic

What is the ride like? That is a big wheel with a low profile for a hatchback for sure.

[CraigV6]

Even in little snippets that Civic is an ugly beast.

[Chestrockwell]

Leon R said:

Porsche, Mercedes, Audi, Alfa Romeo and I think maybe even Citroën use that tyre size too.

The ride is actually great, I don’t know what they’ve done with the suspension but it feels like magic considering the profile and the size of the wheels.

For example, my brother just got a new Audi A6 and even though it feels like driving a cloud, when I get back in my Civic, it doesn’t even feel uncomfortable.

[Court_S]

J4CKO said:

Chestrockwell said:

legless said:

Likewise, the Ford GT isn't special, nor the Dodge Viper, with their truck engines. I'd also rule out a Veyron on the basis that half of its engine can be found under the bonnet of a Passat.

Not taking away anything from the A35 and Golf R but they’re normal premium hatchbacks with powerful engines. I’d say they’re warm hatchbacks if anything.

Is that where we are where a 300 bhp hatch only rates as warm ?

I suppose when you can get 400 plus bhp ones it does kind of knock them down a notch.

How can a 300bhp hatchback getting to 62 in less than five seconds be described as warm? That’s a properly swift car that would show a clean pair of heels to many legendary hot hatches.

If they’re a premium hath with a big engine, what’s the civic? A geriatric mobile that’s crashed into Halfords? :lol:

On a more serious note, I have no doubts in the Type R’s capabilities, it just doesn’t appeal like some of the others do.

[Escort Si-130]

That is one of the big turn off's for the Golf R. I really do not like the exhaust sound from the outside when the floor it. Hear so much of them drive past and it has that farty sound that seems very fake. The A35 probably a little similar, but now way near as bad.
I would get an A35 anyday over the Golf R, its a no brainer.

Cups Renault said:

Fart, fart four pot
Why the four exhausts?

[Escort Si-130]

Understated with 4 exhaust pipes!!! lol, keep dreaming buddy Could easily pick one out any day. Makes me laugh when you get your VW fan boy come up with this comment.

C.A.R. said:

Golf for me- just prefer the understated look.

I actually prefer the bumpers on the GTI / GTD model than those on the R, which almost look more restrained!

[DoubleD]

Escort Si-130 said:

Understated with 4 exhaust pipes!!! lol, keep dreaming buddy Could easily pick one out any day. Makes me laugh when you get your VW fan boy come up with this comment.

C.A.R. said:

Golf for me- just prefer the understated look.

I actually prefer the bumpers on the GTI / GTD model than those on the R, which almost look more restrained!

I dont even like golfs and I think it looks fairly understated.