RE: Mini Electric is here!
Discussion
Herbs said:
https://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/national/17...
Tesco in Bournemouth went live this week and they are free!
But it’s Bournemouth. It’ll aimed at mobility scooters. Tesco in Bournemouth went live this week and they are free!
Nik Gnashers said:
Again, I put forward : what if you don't have a parking space, driveway, garage etc. Many of us don't.
I'm lucky I have a driveway, but most of the other houses in my cul-de-sac can't even park in the same street. How are they going to charge their cars unless the government put wireless charging points under every streetlamp or something ?
You are lucky you can reach your cars with an extension, but are not thinking about the millions of others who cant. For them having a vehicle with a large range is crucial, because they might only be able to charge it once a week at the supermarket for example, and a Kona will last them a full week on one charge.
Now can you understand my point ?
No. Because no one has to buy an EV and only an idiot would buy something that they can’t actually use. You’re shouting at pigeons in the park lad. I'm lucky I have a driveway, but most of the other houses in my cul-de-sac can't even park in the same street. How are they going to charge their cars unless the government put wireless charging points under every streetlamp or something ?
You are lucky you can reach your cars with an extension, but are not thinking about the millions of others who cant. For them having a vehicle with a large range is crucial, because they might only be able to charge it once a week at the supermarket for example, and a Kona will last them a full week on one charge.
Now can you understand my point ?
Nik Gnashers said:
DonkeyApple said:
Nik Gnashers said:
A MINI is not 'significantly smaller than a Fiesta ffs, it's significantly smaller than a Range Rover though.
40cm is f
k all, you're clutching at straws now.
If you charge your phone every night, and your car too, then my phone which I charge every 6 days is much more energy efficient than yours, and I'd like a car that is the same too. If you haven't got a high capacity charging point at your house, and not many of us have, then trying to reach your car with an extension cable IS a hassle, What happens if you don't have a driveway, how are you going to charge it then ?
You haven't really thought this through have you, stupid.........
I think it’s important to put this ‘driveway’ issue to bed. 40cm is f
k all, you're clutching at straws now.If you charge your phone every night, and your car too, then my phone which I charge every 6 days is much more energy efficient than yours, and I'd like a car that is the same too. If you haven't got a high capacity charging point at your house, and not many of us have, then trying to reach your car with an extension cable IS a hassle, What happens if you don't have a driveway, how are you going to charge it then ?
You haven't really thought this through have you, stupid.........
If someone has no legs then they aren’t going to be buying shoes. If someone has no means to domestically charge an EV then like the legless gentleman and his instinctive appreciation that he has no need to buy shoes, that person is not going to buy an EV outside of very particular circumstances.
What type of person would buy a product that they have absolutely no need of and no means to use? A vegetable. A complete vegetable.
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
But to raise this as an issue is just very odd as it all seems rather obvious that someone who has no means to use a product would not generally be interested in buying that product.
If we think of any non essential product that half the population or more cannot use and no one has any true need for, do people take to the internet to scream that the product is bad because only half the population have the means to use it if they wish to? Of course not. That would be absolutely mental. The rankings of a loon. But why is it any different with a car?
It is utterly irrelevant that half the people in the UK do not have the means to home charge. 70 million non EV cars are built on this planet every year versus just 2m pure EVs.
Take a look at yourself. You do not need an EV. No one is telling you that you have to have an EV. And yet you are in the internet screaming about not having the means to charge something that you don’t need and don’t have to have? You’re basically standing in the park, holding a Tesco bag of treasures and shouting at pigeons.
Until the government put wireless charging points under every streetlamp, which isn't going to happen very quickly is it going by the state of the potholes they can't find the cash to mend, then the accessability of charging is actually crucial in the decision as to which EV people are going to choose.
I drive an oil burner, a BMW, but I am being forced and taxed off the road. I work for Hyundai, and know all about the challenges drivers are going to face in the near future. I want to switch to an EV myself, and need something which will allow me to go a week between charges yet allow me to get to work & back every day. I do not have a charging point, nor do I want to trail an extension out of my window to my car every night on the drive, using my slow-charging 240v adapter cable.
Do you think I am somehow 'different' to millions of other drivers ?
If I am shouting at pigeons you are a caveman shouting at a stone, please drag yourself into the real and modern world.
[quote]
If you do 140 mile+ round trips without stopping, then yes, this isnt the car for you, but how many people do in reality?
[/quote]
What you actually mean is "without stopping where they can charge at a relatively fast charge point".
Which is surely nearly everyone who buys a car?
For example, I live in moderately affluent SW London (ideal target market for this sort of car). We went to the New Forest for the weekend the other week, and stayed in an AirBnB with no off-street parking.
By the time you've done twenty or thirty odd miles while you're down there, you'd probably have all of about 30 miles of range left, for a 90 mile journey back home, turning that journey from 90 minutes into more like 2.5 hours. Another alternative would be to futz around while you're there trying to find somewhere you can have lunch that has available charge points, as opposed to actually serves decent food. Screw that.
Whereas a 300 miles plus range would be ample for the whole weekend.
Such little range is only practical as a second car for predictable commutes. But who in London has a second car for commuting? It's expensive and impractical - we all use the train/tube.
I can see this being quite a practical (if expensive) option for people who live outside cities as a second car for commuting, or perhaps in ten years' time when there is ubiquitous enough charging infrastructure in place to make such a small range matter much less.
They had something almost identical to this a whole decade ago and have managed to add all of about 40 miles of range to it since. Given all the advances in tech, what have BMW been doing for the last nine years? To be frank, this looks like a half-arsed effort.
If you do 140 mile+ round trips without stopping, then yes, this isnt the car for you, but how many people do in reality?
[/quote]
What you actually mean is "without stopping where they can charge at a relatively fast charge point".
Which is surely nearly everyone who buys a car?
For example, I live in moderately affluent SW London (ideal target market for this sort of car). We went to the New Forest for the weekend the other week, and stayed in an AirBnB with no off-street parking.
By the time you've done twenty or thirty odd miles while you're down there, you'd probably have all of about 30 miles of range left, for a 90 mile journey back home, turning that journey from 90 minutes into more like 2.5 hours. Another alternative would be to futz around while you're there trying to find somewhere you can have lunch that has available charge points, as opposed to actually serves decent food. Screw that.
Whereas a 300 miles plus range would be ample for the whole weekend.
Such little range is only practical as a second car for predictable commutes. But who in London has a second car for commuting? It's expensive and impractical - we all use the train/tube.
I can see this being quite a practical (if expensive) option for people who live outside cities as a second car for commuting, or perhaps in ten years' time when there is ubiquitous enough charging infrastructure in place to make such a small range matter much less.
They had something almost identical to this a whole decade ago and have managed to add all of about 40 miles of range to it since. Given all the advances in tech, what have BMW been doing for the last nine years? To be frank, this looks like a half-arsed effort.
herebebeasties said:
They had something almost identical to this a whole decade ago and have managed to add all of about 40 miles of range to it since. Given all the advances in tech, what have BMW been doing for the last nine years? To be frank, this looks like a half-arsed effort.
The Original Mini E had no rear seats because the battery packs were that big. That’s the progress in 10 years. Nik Gnashers said:
SOL111 said:
Nik Gnashers said:
If you need to charge your phone every night, unlike me who charges it once every 6 days, then you are using a lot more energy. This is the whole point of energy efficient electric vehicles.
It might be a huge faff if you don't have a high capacity charging point at your house, and 1 or 2 other vehicles to move around in order to get your electric vehicle close enough to the house for the extension lead to reach.
More choice is a good thing, that was not my point. My point was, this MINI is way behind in technology and efficiency.
You are the dim one, because you can't seem to comprehend the points I have made and form any sort of counter argument, dimwit.
I think the fundamental error in your assessment is that there's no such car that will equate to the phone example you've given. Yes some are slightly more economical but not by those margins.It might be a huge faff if you don't have a high capacity charging point at your house, and 1 or 2 other vehicles to move around in order to get your electric vehicle close enough to the house for the extension lead to reach.
More choice is a good thing, that was not my point. My point was, this MINI is way behind in technology and efficiency.
You are the dim one, because you can't seem to comprehend the points I have made and form any sort of counter argument, dimwit.
Some EVs may only need charging once every 6 days but that's because of bigger batteries. Essentially they'll all consume the same, just all at once instead of every day or so.
The mini will actually be one of the most efficient by virtue of its low mass. It's the same setup as my i3 so one of the better ones.
The convenience thing has been done to death and really is personal. For instance, I've an 8m cable that can reach all 4 of my parking spaces without anyone moving. I think most people would position their charger(s) for optimal charge capability.
Edited by SOL111 on Thursday 11th July 22:30
I'm lucky I have a driveway, but most of the other houses in my cul-de-sac can't even park in the same street. How are they going to charge their cars unless the government put wireless charging points under every streetlamp or something ?
You are lucky you can reach your cars with an extension, but are not thinking about the millions of others who cant. For them having a vehicle with a large range is crucial, because they might only be able to charge it once a week at the supermarket for example, and a Kona will last them a full week on one charge.
Now can you understand my point ?
Sorry but I really can't be arsed. I've read some drivel but think this is close to topping the lot!
Your arguing about the advantages of new tech with someone who has a phone that has a 6 day battery life and thinks that is a killer feature. My experience of people like that is they will come up with more and more bizarre arguments why their old tech is better.
“But if you get a new phone you can get access to the whole of the internet at all times, with maps, music, information on bus times, train tickets, Apple Pay etc”
“I don’t need that! I have a road atlas, an A to Z, my Walkman, lots of tapes, never go anywhere I don’t know and only use cash. What will you do if you ever get stuck in the jungle? I’ll be able to phone someone for 6 days!
“But if you get a new phone you can get access to the whole of the internet at all times, with maps, music, information on bus times, train tickets, Apple Pay etc”
“I don’t need that! I have a road atlas, an A to Z, my Walkman, lots of tapes, never go anywhere I don’t know and only use cash. What will you do if you ever get stuck in the jungle? I’ll be able to phone someone for 6 days!
Edited by Electro1980 on Sunday 14th July 09:07
Edited by Electro1980 on Sunday 14th July 09:07
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
Why not? Rapid charger at the gym/supermarket/hub and you're good for 200 miles that week.king nightmare, about 70% of the time the chargepoints (and I live in a Scotland’s largest city!) were broken, cost a fortune, being hogged or ICE’d never againPhunk said:
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
Why not? Rapid charger at the gym/supermarket/hub and you're good for 200 miles that week.king nightmare, about 70% of the time the chargepoints (and I live in a Scotland’s largest city!) were broken, cost a fortune, being hogged or ICE’d never againSOL111 said:
So broadly similar as a private buyer and just depends on personal preference.
I'm not sure this is true. I'm really interested in how the electric MINI goes - we've got a 2018 Cooper with a pretty high specification which we ordered for about £18k after discount. To get an equivalent specification on the electric MINI would be £30k list. But how likely are they to discount? Not very, I'd say. It would be ideal for us as the Mini would get used just for local driving but there is absolutely no way it's worth spending almost £12k more - it's not like the petrol Cooper is particularly thirsty.Fox- said:
SOL111 said:
So broadly similar as a private buyer and just depends on personal preference.
I'm not sure this is true. I'm really interested in how the electric MINI goes - we've got a 2018 Cooper with a pretty high specification which we ordered for about £18k after discount. To get an equivalent specification on the electric MINI would be £30k list. But how likely are they to discount? Not very, I'd say. It would be ideal for us as the Mini would get used just for local driving but there is absolutely no way it's worth spending almost £12k more - it's not like the petrol Cooper is particularly thirsty.Of course if you're just comparing OTR prices the EV is more expensive but you need to consider personal circumstances and overall cost of ownership over the term (3-4 years).
Naturally it's not going to work out for some cases and yours will be one extreme case. Another extreme case would be if you were a company car driver or buying through your business (like I have).
My broadly similar comment obviously isn't going to apply to everyone but is true for general buyers.
Electro1980 said:
Your arguing about the advantages of new tech with someone who has a phone that has a 6 day battery life and thinks that is a killer feature. My experience of people like that is they will come up with more and more bizarre arguments why their old tech is better.
“But if you get a new phone you can get access to the whole of the internet at all times, with maps, music, information on bus times, train tickets, Apple Pay etc”
“I don’t need that! I have a road atlas, an A to Z, my Walkman, lots of tapes, never go anywhere I don’t know and only use cash. What will you do if you ever get stuck in the jungle? I’ll be able to phone someone for 6 days!
Until an EV is stand alone cheaper than its comparable ICE and then all these random ‘killer problems’ will fade away. Even then, we will still be able to buy ICE because EV with current battery tech is never going to be the perfect solution, just a cost effective solution for a large number of consumers. “But if you get a new phone you can get access to the whole of the internet at all times, with maps, music, information on bus times, train tickets, Apple Pay etc”
“I don’t need that! I have a road atlas, an A to Z, my Walkman, lots of tapes, never go anywhere I don’t know and only use cash. What will you do if you ever get stuck in the jungle? I’ll be able to phone someone for 6 days!
Edited by Electro1980 on Sunday 14th July 09:07
Edited by Electro1980 on Sunday 14th July 09:07
Evanivitch said:
Phunk said:
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Half the households in the UK do not have access to off street parking. Such people generally won’t be bothering with EVs.
Why not? Rapid charger at the gym/supermarket/hub and you're good for 200 miles that week.king nightmare, about 70% of the time the chargepoints (and I live in a Scotland’s largest city!) were broken, cost a fortune, being hogged or ICE’d never againPhunk said:
The issue wasn't the car, the issue was chargers, chademo is normally the most reliable charging method on a rapid charger. My Mum had an even worse time with a Renault Zoe which flat out refused to charge on chargers that would work on any other EV. The other issue being that it rapid charged off AC which PHEV owner's love to trickle charge off all day.
Before the days of Instavolt I’m guessing? Deep Thought said:
I see the "its no cheaper than running an ICE car". Thats not an EV's purpose though is it?
Its purpose is to move us away from ICE cars.
As many as possible and over a timescale that won’t cause economic problems. They aren’t going to replace ICE just be as prevalent as plausible. At the moment that means subsidising one and taxing the other but that’s not a long term solution. Genuine price competition is needed for any kind of sales volume inversion. And even if that happens in the next few years there are manufacturing volume restrictions due to raw material supplies. Its purpose is to move us away from ICE cars.
And the data is already here that shows that EV private cars aren’t an actual solution to urban air pollution. They will help but there is a point at which the switch from ICE to EV will stop having any meaningful benefit and that is when the tax and subsidy game will end and a different centralised plan be put into place that probably involves targeting size and weight or moves altogether to targeting the larger causes.
What we won’t see is EV replacing ICE in its entirety while EVs are powered by big, expensive and inefficient current battery tech.
I’m sure that over the coming decade the type of ICE on sale will evolve quite strongly in different directions but they aren’t going to go away because there is not yet anything to completely replace them.
SCEtoAUX said:
DonkeyApple said:
What we won’t see is EV replacing ICE in its entirety while EVs are powered by big, expensive and inefficient current battery tech.
Electric drive makes IC look positively archaic.
SCEtoAUX said:
DonkeyApple said:
What we won’t see is EV replacing ICE in its entirety while EVs are powered by big, expensive and inefficient current battery tech.
No one actually needs an EV and that makes them a luxury good. Whereas many people do actually need a car so the ‘efficiencies’ that are pertinent are not yet the ones that EVs are superior in. It’s going to take more time in this regard.
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