RE: Lotus unveils 2000hp, £2m Evija
Discussion
Donkey Apple said:
Digga said:
Ergo, the cost of manufacturing as contrast to mainstream, high volume cars is irrelevant because the pricing mechanics are from two different planets.
making 75 cars is, effectively, and from the perspective of economies of scale and production, little different to making a one-off.I work with guys who've spent decades in high-volume automotive supply chain engineering and it is hard to get the layman to understand quite how this works.
rockin said:
Donkey Apple said:
Digga said:
Ergo, the cost of manufacturing as contrast to mainstream, high volume cars is irrelevant because the pricing mechanics are from two different planets.
making 75 cars is, effectively, and from the perspective of economies of scale and production, little different to making a one-off.I work with guys who've spent decades in high-volume automotive supply chain engineering and it is hard to get the layman to understand quite how this works.
Max_Torque said:
Lotus's reputation for "class leading dynamics" really is not one that stands up to modern scrutiny, and the real reason their products are considered so class leading (despite often being of far lower quality and having far less validation due to budget constraints) is mainly because they only sell vehicles into classes where dynamics are of the singular and highest importance. For example, it's really easy to make a 900kg, mid-engined car on small tyres, without power steering and that has practically zero NVH targets, have "class leading" steering feel. In fact, you don't actually need to do much to achieve it, because it is baked into the physical attributes of that architecture. Hence, go look at an elise and try and find the "trick" bits bolted to it, and, well, you can't really, because there aren't any. Yes, the basic tuning is good, in terms of spring and roll rates, damper rates and the basic suspension kinematics are ok too, but there is nothing actually outstanding in the engineering, nothing that any number of other OE's couldn't do if they sold that type of product. IMO
Though apparently not Alfa Romeo, even with Fiat Chrysler group behind it.blueg33 said:
otolith said:
For some here that would remove all of the negative comments and justify a 50% price hike whilst charging extra for pretty much everything you may want
otolith said:
Max_Torque said:
Lotus's reputation for "class leading dynamics" really is not one that stands up to modern scrutiny, and the real reason their products are considered so class leading (despite often being of far lower quality and having far less validation due to budget constraints) is mainly because they only sell vehicles into classes where dynamics are of the singular and highest importance. For example, it's really easy to make a 900kg, mid-engined car on small tyres, without power steering and that has practically zero NVH targets, have "class leading" steering feel. In fact, you don't actually need to do much to achieve it, because it is baked into the physical attributes of that architecture. Hence, go look at an elise and try and find the "trick" bits bolted to it, and, well, you can't really, because there aren't any. Yes, the basic tuning is good, in terms of spring and roll rates, damper rates and the basic suspension kinematics are ok too, but there is nothing actually outstanding in the engineering, nothing that any number of other OE's couldn't do if they sold that type of product. IMO
Though apparently not Alfa Romeo, even with Fiat Chrysler group behind it.Max makes valid points, which are the reasons so many have fond memories of older French hatches. At 850kg a 106 Rallye is a pretty good start for driving involvement.
CABC said:
the 4C was a bespoke platform which is the ongoing issue with PH "if an upgraded mass produced hatchback can be so good for 25k then what can a GT86/Elise/MX5 do that's better?" Sadly not enough people appreciate chassis feel so we'll be left with only blunt hatchbacks at sub 40k as opposed to choice.
Max makes valid points, which are the reasons so many have fond memories of older French hatches. At 850kg a 106 Rallye is a pretty good start for driving involvement.
Or a more modern car like a Megane RS250Max makes valid points, which are the reasons so many have fond memories of older French hatches. At 850kg a 106 Rallye is a pretty good start for driving involvement.
otolith said:
Really, all the negativity round here, and it could be avoided with one small styling change.
lol, cleverit would be interesting to find, some weeks later, that your handiwork had gone viral such that enthusiasts were now confused as to the origin of this car
make another version with Dyson on it !!!
CABC said:
otolith said:
Max_Torque said:
Lotus's reputation for "class leading dynamics" really is not one that stands up to modern scrutiny, and the real reason their products are considered so class leading (despite often being of far lower quality and having far less validation due to budget constraints) is mainly because they only sell vehicles into classes where dynamics are of the singular and highest importance. For example, it's really easy to make a 900kg, mid-engined car on small tyres, without power steering and that has practically zero NVH targets, have "class leading" steering feel. In fact, you don't actually need to do much to achieve it, because it is baked into the physical attributes of that architecture. Hence, go look at an elise and try and find the "trick" bits bolted to it, and, well, you can't really, because there aren't any. Yes, the basic tuning is good, in terms of spring and roll rates, damper rates and the basic suspension kinematics are ok too, but there is nothing actually outstanding in the engineering, nothing that any number of other OE's couldn't do if they sold that type of product. IMO
Though apparently not Alfa Romeo, even with Fiat Chrysler group behind it.Max makes valid points, which are the reasons so many have fond memories of older French hatches. At 850kg a 106 Rallye is a pretty good start for driving involvement.
giveitfish said:
As you said in the Elise thread, “Bluntly, they need buyers to see a 50k Lotus how they'd see a 50k McLaren, not how they'd see a 50k Mazda.”
That sums up the purpose of Evija beautifully, and is basically the executive summary of the Geely business plan for Lotus IMO.
I think they have an uphill struggle in the UK, but for every other market the Lotus brand is currently almost invisible so they have a great chance to start again, jumping off from F1 wins and James Bond supercars from the 70’s and completely skipping the cut-price decades that followed.
That sums up the purpose of Evija beautifully, and is basically the executive summary of the Geely business plan for Lotus IMO.
I think they have an uphill struggle in the UK, but for every other market the Lotus brand is currently almost invisible so they have a great chance to start again, jumping off from F1 wins and James Bond supercars from the 70’s and completely skipping the cut-price decades that followed.
otolith said:
giveitfish said:
As you said in the Elise thread, “Bluntly, they need buyers to see a 50k Lotus how they'd see a 50k McLaren, not how they'd see a 50k Mazda.”
That sums up the purpose of Evija beautifully, and is basically the executive summary of the Geely business plan for Lotus IMO.
I think they have an uphill struggle in the UK, but for every other market the Lotus brand is currently almost invisible so they have a great chance to start again, jumping off from F1 wins and James Bond supercars from the 70’s and completely skipping the cut-price decades that followed.
That sums up the purpose of Evija beautifully, and is basically the executive summary of the Geely business plan for Lotus IMO.
I think they have an uphill struggle in the UK, but for every other market the Lotus brand is currently almost invisible so they have a great chance to start again, jumping off from F1 wins and James Bond supercars from the 70’s and completely skipping the cut-price decades that followed.
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