Bad crash at my local boy racer meet
Discussion
Hungrymc said:
DonkeyApple said:
Just insisting that all such events have traffic controlled exits would make a big difference.
That's exactly why I wouldn't want to be the organizer of this event. Its obvious that some marshalling was needed and to continue to arrange it without addressing that (or stopping future meets) must be somewhat dodgy when things go so very wrong.And if you did control the standard of driving, I guess many attendees would lose interest and stop going as it loses the "underground" bit.
It really isn't just people who like to drive and so the track days won't cut it. Its the combination of being questionable legally and showing off in front of a crowd that the people who go enjoy. I think ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-h...
What would the punishment be if something like this happened outside a court, and seventeen judges and lawyers were injured?
BBC said:
In July 2015, 17 people were injured after a Ford Fiesta ploughed into a group of bystanders at a car cruise event in Plymouth - which resulted in a £500 fine for the driver
That just about sums it up. Even the lawyer who got him off with it would've cost the taxpayers more than £500. We need a less corrupt legal system in this country, because the way things are going, it's only going to get worse. What would the punishment be if something like this happened outside a court, and seventeen judges and lawyers were injured?
Dynamic Space Wizard said:
........ We need a less corrupt legal system in this country, because the way things are going, it's only going to get worse.
What would the punishment be if something like this happened outside a court, and seventeen judges and lawyers were injured?
I've read the article and there's no suggestion of corruption. If it happen outside a court the same sentencing rules would apply.What would the punishment be if something like this happened outside a court, and seventeen judges and lawyers were injured?
Personally I don't see how the spectators who were injured are at blame by simply being there.
A lot of meets are organised be it the likes of a breakfast meet at Goodwood or a locally organised gathering or 'cruise' and a lot of attendees come along to look at the cars. Regardless there is an element of drivers attending who can't resist the urge to show off and that's what's happened in this incident. Someone is speeding, someone pulls out and this happens.
It's up to the drivers to reel it in and not be idiots even more so when it's crowded. Not the first time this kind of thing has happened and I suspect not the last.
A lot of meets are organised be it the likes of a breakfast meet at Goodwood or a locally organised gathering or 'cruise' and a lot of attendees come along to look at the cars. Regardless there is an element of drivers attending who can't resist the urge to show off and that's what's happened in this incident. Someone is speeding, someone pulls out and this happens.
It's up to the drivers to reel it in and not be idiots even more so when it's crowded. Not the first time this kind of thing has happened and I suspect not the last.
Boydie88 said:
Doesn't need to be covertly. Police could be using these events to have their own display at the static meet, showing off some tech or their cars etc. Not only would this act as a deterrent, it might also improve relations between the Police and those at the meet.
Policing should be more about preventing crime than reacting to it.
a point I made earlier in the thread Policing should be more about preventing crime than reacting to it.
irocfan said:
Boydie88 said:
Doesn't need to be covertly. Police could be using these events to have their own display at the static meet, showing off some tech or their cars etc. Not only would this act as a deterrent, it might also improve relations between the Police and those at the meet.
Policing should be more about preventing crime than reacting to it.
a point I made earlier in the thread Policing should be more about preventing crime than reacting to it.
I am sure the police would like to do such things too but its not possible.
Alex_225 said:
Personally I don't see how the spectators who were injured are at blame by simply being there.
A lot of meets are organised be it the likes of a breakfast meet at Goodwood or a locally organised gathering or 'cruise' and a lot of attendees come along to look at the cars. Regardless there is an element of drivers attending who can't resist the urge to show off and that's what's happened in this incident. Someone is speeding, someone pulls out and this happens.
It's up to the drivers to reel it in and not be idiots even more so when it's crowded. Not the first time this kind of thing has happened and I suspect not the last.
Because they were stood around on the exit hoping to see people tearing it up down the street. They weren't standing there hoping to see people exiting the event quietly and considerately. None of them expected what happened to happen, but there is a very high risk of it happening when you are standing around by the exit, and your presence is the very thing that encourages reckless driving (an audience).A lot of meets are organised be it the likes of a breakfast meet at Goodwood or a locally organised gathering or 'cruise' and a lot of attendees come along to look at the cars. Regardless there is an element of drivers attending who can't resist the urge to show off and that's what's happened in this incident. Someone is speeding, someone pulls out and this happens.
It's up to the drivers to reel it in and not be idiots even more so when it's crowded. Not the first time this kind of thing has happened and I suspect not the last.
Chamon_Lee said:
They do this in some areas but again it comes down to resources doesn't it.
I am sure the police would like to do such things too but its not possible.
Hmm, I mentioned earlier in the thread that there was an off road motorbike event a couple of weeks ago in the midlands. There were 6 to 8 police officers at the event manning a stand and joining ride outs, playing on the off road courses etc. at least 24 shifts of police resource was spent on this. I've no doubt its well intended but it is not a good use of the limited resource they have..... And there was no police present the night that a load of bikes were taken from the same event.I am sure the police would like to do such things too but its not possible.
There is a budget issue, but there is also a priorities issue.
Also lol @ people suggesting the Police should commit resources to babysitting this. Notwithstanding the fact that it has been said plenty of times that the t
ttery starts as soon as the Police leave, these people shouldn't be racing up and down the street anyway. What mental gymnastics do you have to do to blame the Police for not supervising behaviour that is illegal and shouldn't be happening anyway.
ttery starts as soon as the Police leave, these people shouldn't be racing up and down the street anyway. What mental gymnastics do you have to do to blame the Police for not supervising behaviour that is illegal and shouldn't be happening anyway.Dynamic Space Wizard said:
That just about sums it up. Even the lawyer who got him off with it would've cost the taxpayers more than £500. We need a less corrupt legal system in this country, because the way things are going, it's only going to get worse.
What would the punishment be if something like this happened outside a court, and seventeen judges and lawyers were injured?
He was found guilty of careless driving as the more serious charge of dangerous driving couldn’t be proved and was sentenced appropriately. This proves the system is not corrupt as in your Daily Mail world he’d be sent down for life despite the evidence not being there to prove otherwise.What would the punishment be if something like this happened outside a court, and seventeen judges and lawyers were injured?
If this happened outside a court and the same parameters applied, the outcome would be the same.
Do you actually think they’d gang up on him in court and reach for the black cap because he run over their mate Nigel from Court no2? Now that would be corrupt but I guess you’d be happy with that until you slip up and face a kangaroo court.
irocfan said:
Boydie88 said:
Doesn't need to be covertly. Police could be using these events to have their own display at the static meet, showing off some tech or their cars etc. Not only would this act as a deterrent, it might also improve relations between the Police and those at the meet.
Policing should be more about preventing crime than reacting to it.
a point I made earlier in the thread Policing should be more about preventing crime than reacting to it.
TorqueVR said:
If it happen outside a court the same sentencing rules would apply.
valiant said:
If this happened outside a court and the same parameters applied, the outcome would be the same.
That's not even slightly true though, is it? The fact is that this sort of thing just does not happen outside a court. See if you can guess why not.It would actually be illegal, and it would be dealt with appropriately, which is exactly the way it should be wherever it happens.
Dynamic Space Wizard said:
TorqueVR said:
If it happen outside a court the same sentencing rules would apply.
valiant said:
If this happened outside a court and the same parameters applied, the outcome would be the same.
That's not even slightly true though, is it? The fact is that this sort of thing just does not happen outside a court. See if you can guess why not.It would actually be illegal, and it would be dealt with appropriately, which is exactly the way it should be wherever it happens.
its as illegal 10 miles down the road as it is just outside a Court House or Police Station
ukaskew said:
Not well catered for track days? WWII gave us a huge number of disused airfields and engineering talent, we've run with that and have an embarrassment of riches in terms of motorsport in the UK. The majority of the country has at least two circuits within 2 hours.
There is a trackday somewhere in the country pretty much every single day between March and October: https://www.trackdays.co.uk/calendar/. Plenty of affordable options too, for example the Action Days at Castle Combe start at £25 a session.
i'll add to this, there's Teeside, 3 sisters, other smaller venues (let alone loads of airfields) that cater for REALLY cheap car-scene type stuff... let alone the drift stuff at short oval facilities, santa-pod, other 1/4 mile places. Plus a load of properly organised static displayed shows. (also hillclimbs/sprints/targa's etc - there's a geniune disconnect between these type of events and more mainstreme stuff)There is a trackday somewhere in the country pretty much every single day between March and October: https://www.trackdays.co.uk/calendar/. Plenty of affordable options too, for example the Action Days at Castle Combe start at £25 a session.
Edited by ukaskew on Monday 22 July 08:12
All these are dripped unto uk *counter-car-culture* (which is what the "underground" car scene is really) via magazines and socials.
Durzel said:
blame the Police for not supervising behaviour that is illegal and shouldn't be happening anyway.
While I 100% agree that it isn't the police's fault in any way, shape or form. I can't think of many examples of the police being needed to, erm, 'police' situations where illegal stuff doesn't happen?It does surprise me that they don't stick a camera van at these events.
Durzel said:
Alex_225 said:
Personally I don't see how the spectators who were injured are at blame by simply being there.
A lot of meets are organised be it the likes of a breakfast meet at Goodwood or a locally organised gathering or 'cruise' and a lot of attendees come along to look at the cars. Regardless there is an element of drivers attending who can't resist the urge to show off and that's what's happened in this incident. Someone is speeding, someone pulls out and this happens.
It's up to the drivers to reel it in and not be idiots even more so when it's crowded. Not the first time this kind of thing has happened and I suspect not the last.
Because they were stood around on the exit hoping to see people tearing it up down the street. They weren't standing there hoping to see people exiting the event quietly and considerately. None of them expected what happened to happen, but there is a very high risk of it happening when you are standing around by the exit, and your presence is the very thing that encourages reckless driving (an audience).A lot of meets are organised be it the likes of a breakfast meet at Goodwood or a locally organised gathering or 'cruise' and a lot of attendees come along to look at the cars. Regardless there is an element of drivers attending who can't resist the urge to show off and that's what's happened in this incident. Someone is speeding, someone pulls out and this happens.
It's up to the drivers to reel it in and not be idiots even more so when it's crowded. Not the first time this kind of thing has happened and I suspect not the last.
I walk the dog at night past various places of business and have not, as yet had a Japenese Sportscar mount the pavement at pace.
People want a spectacle, a free one with an element of being subversive is even better, I have watched loads of the videos so am not immune but I would probably avoid going in person and standing where amateur drivers are desperately showing off with no safeguards, I certainly wouldnt have taken my kids to watch. How the Ace cafe hasnt had a major accident amazed me, or has it ?
Its always going to be a possibility, as a pedestrian you are always at some risk around traffic, stuff can and does go wrong but the odds are drastically shortened if people are drifting, speeding and there are a lot of people and cars around.
I love a bit of titting about in cars but this stuff is just too risky, so easy to become the next viral video and added for all time to a compilation of "Idiot drivers 2019 - INSANE -Brutal crashes" or whatever.
I do think there should be places where folk can let rip under a bit of supervision, in Autralia they have burnout competitions and the cars are sort of in a pit, I quite fancied having a go at finishing off my rear tyres when they were due changing earlier this year but finding somewhere is pretty difficult, retail parks and surrounding roads arent the answer but there is perhaps a need for somewhere folk can go and safely let off steam.
I think social media has made this sort of thing much worse now people can organise big events pretty quickly without much control over who turns up. Hell even PH got into stick a number of years back when organising an event at Cheddar Gorge which was due to some numpties hammering up the hill who weren't part of us.
I think people also don't seem to view risk in the same way, there was a meet local to me that I was tempted to attend, glad I didn't after I see all the videos of people doing donuts and burn outs in their MX5 "Race car" right next to parked RS4's, GTRs and the like.
I think people also don't seem to view risk in the same way, there was a meet local to me that I was tempted to attend, glad I didn't after I see all the videos of people doing donuts and burn outs in their MX5 "Race car" right next to parked RS4's, GTRs and the like.
J4CKO said:
Yep, you generally find that if you stand by a retail park at night and there isnt a car meet on that the traffic is light and generally not going sideways or at double the posted limit.
I walk the dog at night past various places of business and have not, as yet had a Japenese Sportscar mount the pavement at pace.
People want a spectacle, a free one with an element of being subversive is even better, I have watched loads of the videos so am not immune but I would probably avoid going in person and standing where amateur drivers are desperately showing off with no safeguards, I certainly wouldnt have taken my kids to watch. How the Ace cafe hasnt had a major accident amazed me, or has it ?
Its always going to be a possibility, as a pedestrian you are always at some risk around traffic, stuff can and does go wrong but the odds are drastically shortened if people are drifting, speeding and there are a lot of people and cars around.
I love a bit of titting about in cars but this stuff is just too risky, so easy to become the next viral video and added for all time to a compilation of "Idiot drivers 2019 - INSANE -Brutal crashes" or whatever.
I do think there should be places where folk can let rip under a bit of supervision, in Autralia they have burnout competitions and the cars are sort of in a pit, I quite fancied having a go at finishing off my rear tyres when they were due changing earlier this year but finding somewhere is pretty difficult, retail parks and surrounding roads arent the answer but there is perhaps a need for somewhere folk can go and safely let off steam.
Problem is from the Police's perspective they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.I walk the dog at night past various places of business and have not, as yet had a Japenese Sportscar mount the pavement at pace.
People want a spectacle, a free one with an element of being subversive is even better, I have watched loads of the videos so am not immune but I would probably avoid going in person and standing where amateur drivers are desperately showing off with no safeguards, I certainly wouldnt have taken my kids to watch. How the Ace cafe hasnt had a major accident amazed me, or has it ?
Its always going to be a possibility, as a pedestrian you are always at some risk around traffic, stuff can and does go wrong but the odds are drastically shortened if people are drifting, speeding and there are a lot of people and cars around.
I love a bit of titting about in cars but this stuff is just too risky, so easy to become the next viral video and added for all time to a compilation of "Idiot drivers 2019 - INSANE -Brutal crashes" or whatever.
I do think there should be places where folk can let rip under a bit of supervision, in Autralia they have burnout competitions and the cars are sort of in a pit, I quite fancied having a go at finishing off my rear tyres when they were due changing earlier this year but finding somewhere is pretty difficult, retail parks and surrounding roads arent the answer but there is perhaps a need for somewhere folk can go and safely let off steam.
No land owner (e.g. supermarkets etc) is going to permit people to hoon about on their property, not least of which because of the massive health & safety and PLI implications.
If the Police are informed of an event then they might either stop it happening at all, or - if they don't turn up - could be blamed, by some, for not proactively stopping it from taking place if something like this happened.
Which basically leaves track days and airfields where this could be realistically done. Much better from a risk point of view, but as its not as public you aren't going to get the same kind of crowds, which is exactly what attracts these participants in the first place.
Durzel said:
Problem is from the Police's perspective they are damned if they do, damned if they don't.
No land owner (e.g. supermarkets etc) is going to permit people to hoon about on their property, not least of which because of the massive health & safety and PLI implications.
If the Police are informed of an event then they might either stop it happening at all, or - if they don't turn up - could be blamed, by some, for not proactively stopping it from taking place if something like this happened.
Which basically leaves track days and airfields where this could be realistically done. Much better from a risk point of view, but as its not as public you aren't going to get the same kind of crowds, which is exactly what attracts these participants in the first place.
Trackdays and rwyb are all well and good but they're season specific and some events are only yearly. Why bother with that when the road is open 24/7 and you can go every nightNo land owner (e.g. supermarkets etc) is going to permit people to hoon about on their property, not least of which because of the massive health & safety and PLI implications.
If the Police are informed of an event then they might either stop it happening at all, or - if they don't turn up - could be blamed, by some, for not proactively stopping it from taking place if something like this happened.
Which basically leaves track days and airfields where this could be realistically done. Much better from a risk point of view, but as its not as public you aren't going to get the same kind of crowds, which is exactly what attracts these participants in the first place.
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