RE: Toyota GR Supra vs. BMW M2 Competition

[simonbamg]

macky17 said:

I'll take the c8 vette please...

id have a 570S

[Harry_523]

Leon R said:

90% of what I don't like about the new supra could be fixed with a different front bumper.

and lights, and bonnet, and spoiler, and the picture has been stretched to make it wider

[Lewis Kingston]

kambites said:

It would certainly be interesting to know but I suspect the information to that level of detail isn't in the public domain. There's always a myriad of little changes as an engine develops but manufacturers don't generally publish the reasons for the changes.

First section of this should answer most questions.

https://jalopnik.com/the-2019-toyota-supra-is-a-bm...

Might be a more recent version available elsewhere, given that the Z4's out and about now.

[kambites]

Lewis Kingston said:

kambites said:

It would certainly be interesting to know but I suspect the information to that level of detail isn't in the public domain. There's always a myriad of little changes as an engine develops but manufacturers don't generally publish the reasons for the changes.

First section of this should answer most questions.

Interesting but not directly relevant because that seems to be focused on how much the cars share, whereas we were discussing how much design input Toyota had on the parts they do share.

Curious that the turbo isn't the same part between the Supra and X5 versions of the engine. I wonder if that's for packaging reasons or performance ones.

[carparkno1]

Can't really understand the point of this comparison:

The M2 has a much older engine, turbo'd up, manual box... the Supra has the B58, ZF 8spd gearbox... so an M240i or 440i would be a better comparison surely if you want a flappy paddle coupe with the same engine?

The B58 is nine tenths the engine the S55 is and when they put it in the next M4 expect 500bhp, it is an absolute brute in standard tune as it is.

Also, these are at very different price points if you factor in discounts on a BMW that's been around a while vs a brand new Supra.

Feels like PH isn't even trying today, between this and the 330d with press pack photos.

[Leon R]

Harry_523 said:

Leon R said:

90% of what I don't like about the new supra could be fixed with a different front bumper.

and lights, and bonnet, and spoiler, and the picture has been stretched to make it wider

90% not 100%.....

Also you missed the wing mirrors, side vents and the fact it is lowered.

[captain_tripping]

kambites said:

captain_tripping said:

Modern cars just lose out on the thrill of driving. It removes the driver from any sense of feel. Having the throttle and steering wheel wired in to an ECU takes away the feel of the car, having synthetic feedback given to you never feels right.

You say that like it's a new thing, but the roll the driver plays in driving and the feedback they receive through the controls has been falling ever since the motorcar has existed. For example a car with automated (vacuum driven) timing advance is "less involving" to drive than a car where you have to control the timing manually. Everyone has their own idea about when the optimum balance between driver involvement and convenience was (and indeed for some people we haven't reached it yet), but lets not pretend the shift from one to the other is a remotely new thing.

That is a fair point, even the carb vs DFI is probably hotly contested between some people. The line will indeed be different for everybody.

[Arsecati]

Lazadude said:

You mean like its gearbox? Or interior? Or switch gear? Or drive train? Or suspension components?

It's literally BMW vs BMW, there's more Bosch (sensors) in the Supra than Toyota.

Hmmm, not really that difficult a sentence to understand my friend: just read it again slowly.

[jason61c]

the 1+2 series really are ugly ugly cars.

[unsprung]

Either car would be good fun.

The Supra might not be beautiful, but it's interesting. And I reckon it has more of a sense of occasion about it. Presumably, one is seated lower. Then there's the classical formula of long nose and cabin pushed to the back.

[nickfrog]

jason61c said:

the 1+2 series really are ugly ugly cars.

That must be a subjective thing perhaps.

[macky17]

Gameface said:

macky17 said:

Gameface said:

macky17 said:

I'll take the c8 vette please...

At between approximately £80k - £100k?

No but from about £65k I would. Where you getting those figures? Thin air?

Go to the Corvette thread and do some reading.

It's all there for your perusal.

Ok read it. Lots of vaguely educated and uneducated guesses. Here's mine: £75k max. Worth saving a little extra for over either of these.

[Demonix]

M2 is a beast, power, handling, rwd thrills but is just so bland and mundane on the styling front. Supra is more visually interesting but lacks the brute force of the BMW. A hotter more focused Toyota Supra would definitely be a better proposition.

[nickfrog]

macky17 said:

Ok read it. Lots of vaguely educated and uneducated guesses. Here's mine: £75k max. Worth saving a little extra for over either of these.

That would make it cheaper than in the US pre tax and duties. I hope you're right but I went for £89,950.

[OzzyR1]

CrippsCorner said:

Galsia said:

The new Supra really is a revolting looking thing.

I think it actually gets worse every time I look at it

In my opinion, I think it looks great in the side profile, particularly compared to the BMW in the photos above.

The front and rear is totally different though, it looks ugly and over-complicated at both ends to me.

That said, I've read posts from quite a few people that it looks a lot better "in the metal" so will reserve judgement until I see one somewhere.

It's a car I'd really like to like, I've owned a Mkii, Mkiii turbo and a Mkiv TT at various times since the late-80's and have fond memories of all of them so I might be in the market for one of these at some point.

One other thing I can't understand is the "lack of power" argument. OK, it might "only" put out in the region of 350bhp, but on UK, roads, 0-60 in just over 4 seconds is more than enough in 99% of situations.

100 more bhp might drop that to 3.8 seconds on paper (while adding £10K+ to the purchase price), but in the real world that will be negated by driver response, weather conditions, road surface, tyre choice, gear choice and a multitude of other things. Half a second is a tiny fraction of time anywhere but on a track.

[nickfrog]

Demonix said:

so bland and mundane on the styling front. Supra is more visually interesting

Perhaps because the Supra doesn't have to be able to carry rear passengers in relative comfort as part of its design brief?

[thatsprettyshady]

jason61c said:

the 1+2 series really are ugly ugly cars.

They're a bit nicer with a few improvements.



(excuse the boot being slightly open)

[Court_S]

nickfrog said:

jason61c said:

the 1+2 series really are ugly ugly cars.

That must be a subjective thing perhaps.

Exactly. I quite like my 1 series, especially compared to its replacement!

With regards to the article, I’d have the M2 because I do t really like the Supra.

[Billy_Whizzzz]

I have an M2C and have to confess having not the slightest bit of interest in the Supra. Nothing. There’s nothing it does better or even nearly as well as the M2. For an every day beater I’ve had an m140i with the same engine as the Supra and while was fine as a daily hack but certainly not special. The M2C feels special all the time.

[WJNB]

The Supra has a whiff of Marcos kit car with its messy fussy styling &the badge will send most the blue propeller route even though in the report it was described as a "junior M" - whoops.