RE: Toyota GR Supra vs. BMW M2 Competition

[Bakazan]

What surprises me regarding BMWs featured so far this week is that the 330d M Sport Plus appears to be priced higher than the M2 Competition.

[Turbobanana]

jason61c said:

the 1+2 series really are ugly ugly cars.

Agreed. I'm not a big fan of the Supra either, but haven't yet seen one in the flesh. When I do, I'll notice it: I wouldn't notice an M2. I think the difference is that the Supra appears to have been designed from a clean sheet of paper, whereas the BMW has evolved from several years' worth of "design language" and just isn't distinctive.

It does have "that badge", though. And a manual box...

[cerb4.5lee]

I've never liked the rear lights on the 2 series and I just can't get past them for some reason. I'd love a M2 or a M240i but the rear end would annoy me a bit.

I also agree that the Supra is at least a little different to look at and it stands out a bit for me which I personally like. The Supra looks like a sports car where the M2 is a souped up family car for me. I had similar beef with my M3 in that regard...and it shouldn't really make a difference to me but it does for some reason.

[Burnham]

I'm surprised how small the Supra looks compared to a 2-Series

[Daveyraveygravey]

If I had £50k, the thing should be perfect. I think 30 years ago TVR made the blinding silly car, no excuse needed. Modern cars are over techy over priced and over synthetic

[E65Ross]

Daveyraveygravey said:

If I had £50k, the thing should be perfect. I think 30 years ago TVR made the blinding silly car, no excuse needed. Modern cars are over techy over priced and over synthetic

Alpine A110?

Back then, the TVR has more tech than a car from 30 years earlier than that...where do you draw the line?

[abucd4]

J4CKO said:

Thats the key thing, the current one is nearer to an M240i drivetrain wise, its crying out for the full fat S55 (or similar) treatment, though a tuning box would do a lot to redress the power deficiency, but then you can do the same with the M2 and go even sillier.

Toyota need to offer a manual, cant exactly be all that hard to do, I bet someone somewhere has already started a DIY conversion.

I really hope that Toyota produce some more exciting versions, I like the standard car and its no slouch but it needs that additional halo model(s)

And yet... the drag race at the end of this suggest a lot of the difference is perception. The m2 really doesn’t/can’t pull away until 3rd gear, irrelevant on the road really. And the producer owns the m2 so no bias here, if anything he seems gutted. The low down torque of the b58 really is something else!

https://youtu.be/cphuMPNcdTY

Happy to be proven wrong but I’ve seen a fair few comment that the m240is are faster than the figures and tbh I think I’m convinced (non-owner btw, also not biased)

[jason61c]

Turbobanana said:

Agreed. I'm not a big fan of the Supra either, but haven't yet seen one in the flesh. When I do, I'll notice it: I wouldn't notice an M2. I think the difference is that the Supra appears to have been designed from a clean sheet of paper, whereas the BMW has evolved from several years' worth of "design language" and just isn't distinctive.

It does have "that badge", though. And a manual box...

that 'badge' isn't worth toffee now days. I'm a bmw fanboy.

The look of the cars, the amount around, the discounts etc etc.

The supra is a 'thing' to see, the 1+2 series are 'nothing' to see.

[Mr Tidy]

While they both have a straight 6 petrol turbo engine and RWD, I suspect anyone looking for a car at this price-point would have one or the other on their shortlist rather than both.

As I have an E86 Z4 Coupe I'm quite intrigued by the Supra (I certainly wouldn't want the G29 Z4)!

Still it's good to see that is also seems to make a fair bit more than the quoted power output!

https://www.techapeek.com/2019/06/30/another-toyot...

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

Still it's good to see that is also seems to make a fair bit more than the quoted power output!

https://www.techapeek.com/2019/06/30/another-toyot...

I watched that car throttle review earlier tonight and you certainly can't grumble with the power/torque that the Supra pushes out as standard that is for sure!

I have so much want for a manual gearbox option though...but then I feel like an old fart because nobody seems to want that gearbox anymore.

Hopefully Toyota will listen to the small minority of us that love a traditional three pedal manual all being well.

[borat52]

E65Ross said:

Daveyraveygravey said:

If I had £50k, the thing should be perfect. I think 30 years ago TVR made the blinding silly car, no excuse needed. Modern cars are over techy over priced and over synthetic

Alpine A110?

Back then, the TVR has more tech than a car from 30 years earlier than that...where do you draw the line?

That’s debatable, steel tubular chassis with relatively basic albeit high performance engine/gearbox. No driver aids, no safety aids.

Pretty much all it had was electronic fuel injection.

[Mr Tidy]

cerb4.5lee said:

I have so much want for a manual gearbox option though...but then I feel like an old fart because nobody seems to want that gearbox anymore.

Hopefully Toyota will listen to the small minority of us that love a traditional three pedal manual all being well.

Well I'd much prefer a manual gearbox too - but sadly a new one is way out of my budget!

[Edmundo2]

Supra looks like a toy with lots of unesseccesary lines trying to disguise its blandness. Like most modern mass market cars they are leaning towards china/jap/US tastes as that will pull sales .....The fact it's got dreadful overhangs and over styled wings is lost on the droid that buys one..Lola T70 anyone...?

[hammo19]

I like Marmite, and I like it a lot but both of these cars nope they do nothing for me.....

[Ursicles]

Couple of points (having driven one which most here haven't)

- it looks far far better in the flesh. The pictures make it look dog ugly, in the flesh when you see if and the styling that's gone in, it's pretty stunning.

- you sit lowbin the car, and the thing corners like it's on rails. Around town the ride is totally compliant and on track it's a weapon.

- the bhp is wrong. Recent rolling road has it at 380bhp.

- car and driver in the US ran 0-60 tests and it's been clocked at 3.8.

[cerb4.5lee]

Mr Tidy said:

Well I'd much prefer a manual gearbox too - but sadly a new one is way out of my budget!

It is out of my budget too but I was thinking in a few years time it might be in reach. I'm not interested if it stays auto only though.

[Court_S]

abucd4 said:

And yet... the drag race at the end of this suggest a lot of the difference is perception. The m2 really doesn’t/can’t pull away until 3rd gear, irrelevant on the road really. And the producer owns the m2 so no bias here, if anything he seems gutted. The low down torque of the b58 really is something else!

https://youtu.be/cphuMPNcdTY

Happy to be proven wrong but I’ve seen a fair few comment that the m240is are faster than the figures and tbh I think I’m convinced (non-owner btw, also not biased)

I was thinking of that vid too when reading the article. The B58 isn’t special like the M engines of old, but it’s a pretty impressive thing. The big difference between the M2 (especially the Comp) and the M240 is the suspension. Point to point I’d expect the M2 to be much quicker due to a better set up. The M140/240 damping sts itself when the speed picks up.

The general consensus seems to be that the B58 tends to make more than the quoted power, although I don’t know how much of that is true and how much is internet folklore.

[Deerfoot]

Edmundo2 said:

.....The fact it's got dreadful overhangs and over styled wings is lost on the droid that buys one..

The droids will be buying the other one I think....

[nickfrog]

Court_S said:

The big difference between the M2 (especially the Comp) and the M240 is the suspension. Point to point I’d expect the M2 to be much quicker due to a better set up. The M140/240 damping sts itself when the speed picks up.

The other differences are actually down to the front camber, LSD and wider tracks of the M2, which where the money has gone.

The MX40i will indeed start struggling beyond 8/10ths on turn in and traction (it's road biased) when the M2 will come into its own.

[Ho Lee Kau]

Oily76 said:

Ho Lee Kau said:

Forced to choose between M2 and Supra I would chose the 1M, but the dream would be GT4 Gen1.

You're going for a £70k second hand car in preference to the brand new £50k one? I'll go for a used 991.2 GT3 then.

I would.
I prefer NA engines these days.
GT4 also looks like a real sportscar.

If GT3 - then my choice would be 997.2 GT3. I like old school.