RE: Megane Trophy-R clinches Spa FWD record

[C.A.R.]

Jon_S_Rally said:

I wondered how long it would take people to moan about the price. If only people had some comprehension of marketing.

Very impressive, Renault have done a good job with this. Unlikely I'll ever be able to own one, but I'm glad it exists.

Because hot hatches are supposed to be attainable performance.

I notice Renault list this as a 'sports car'

It's a factory-modified family hatch back. It's good, yes, but massively compromised, to the point they've had to spend an absolute fortune to get it so competitive, a fortune which is translated to the showroom floor.

[Titan2]

That looks like a very impressive car,although I think its stretching it a bit to call it a hot hatch.
It's gone well past that....

Also,yes the price is nuts but I can nearly guarantee that Renault isn't making much if any money from selling this Trophy-R.
I'd bet their actually losing money on each one they sell.

As others have also said,I think this lap time shows the Civic Type-R in an even better light considering it was basically a standard car.

Well done Renault all the same for producing the hatchback equivalent of a GT3 RS 😁

[nickfrog]

I wonder what lap time a non R Trophy can do?

[DoubleD]

C.A.R. said:

Jon_S_Rally said:

I wondered how long it would take people to moan about the price. If only people had some comprehension of marketing.

Very impressive, Renault have done a good job with this. Unlikely I'll ever be able to own one, but I'm glad it exists.

Because hot hatches are supposed to be attainable performance.

I notice Renault list this as a 'sports car'

It's a factory-modified family hatch back. It's good, yes, but massively compromised, to the point they've had to spend an absolute fortune to get it so competitive, a fortune which is translated to the showroom floor.

Can you point me to the rule book about what a hot hatch and sports car should be?

[Jon_S_Rally]

C.A.R. said:

Because hot hatches are supposed to be attainable performance.

I notice Renault list this as a 'sports car'

It's a factory-modified family hatch back. It's good, yes, but massively compromised, to the point they've had to spend an absolute fortune to get it so competitive, a fortune which is translated to the showroom floor.

Well done, you've just proven my point perfectly

This is a marketing tool. It isn't supposed to be a car that they sell by the bucket load, or even looked at in the same way as a regular hot hatch. It comes along, breaks a few records, grabs some headlines and then goes away again. Yes they'll sell a few, but how many they sell and for how much is basically irrelevant. What is relevant is selling regular Meganes (R.S. and normal ones) off the back of the media interest this car generates.

The mega price actually helps in many ways, because it generates more media chit chat.

DoubleD said:

Can you point me to the rule book about what a hot hatch and sports car should be?

Can you cc me in too please? I bet the author would be a riveting dinner guest.

[FaNtheMaN26]

I agree it's a halo car designed to generate interest in the normal RS models...but when you remove said models USP the 4WS from the halo car, aren't you admitting it's not neeed?! It's not like the buyers will not be in the know, people who buy hot hatches tend to know their apples (granted some won't care)..

[C.A.R.]

Jon_S_Rally said:

C.A.R. said:

Because hot hatches are supposed to be attainable performance.

I notice Renault list this as a 'sports car'

It's a factory-modified family hatch back. It's good, yes, but massively compromised, to the point they've had to spend an absolute fortune to get it so competitive, a fortune which is translated to the showroom floor.

Well done, you've just proven my point perfectly

This is a marketing tool. It isn't supposed to be a car that they sell by the bucket load, or even looked at in the same way as a regular hot hatch. It comes along, breaks a few records, grabs some headlines and then goes away again. Yes they'll sell a few, but how many they sell and for how much is basically irrelevant. What is relevant is selling regular Meganes (R.S. and normal ones) off the back of the media interest this car generates.

The mega price actually helps in many ways, because it generates more media chit chat.

Well, to put it another way, is it worth almost twice as much as a Golf GTI TCR?

~ 75kg weight saving (or closer to 100kg if you get the extra £10k carbon pack)

+10hp

= £20k+?!

Jon_S_Rally said:

DoubleD said:

Can you point me to the rule book about what a hot hatch and sports car should be?

Can you cc me in too please? I bet the author would be a riveting dinner guest.

Purely subjective, isn't it?

Everything on a forum should surely be prefaced with "IMO" for the hard of thinking.

But dictionary meaning of 'Sports Car' is a "Low, fast car, usually with room for only 2 people"

Just because they've taken the rear bench out of a 5-door, 5-seater car doesn't make it a sports car - IMO

[nickfrog]

FaNtheMaN26 said:

I agree it's a halo car designed to generate interest in the normal RS models...but when you remove said models USP the 4WS from the halo car, aren't you admitting it's not neeed?! It's not like the buyers will not be in the know, people who buy hot hatches tend to know their apples (granted some won't care)..

You make a good point about the apparent contradiction of removing 4ws. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. They wanted to save weight so that was the first victim. But they also doubled the front negative camber which also compensates and brings in inherent rear axle cooperation on turn in. One may prefer to run a more conservative amount of front neg camber on a road car like the other versions of the RS. I certainly will and don't mind the extra weight as I feel 4ws does bring a lot to the mix at what is a modest weight penalty for my needs as I will only be tracking my 280 Cup 5 or 6 times a year, the brunt of my mileage being on the road.

[FaNtheMaN26]

nickfrog said:

You make a good point about the apparent contradiction of removing 4ws. But there is more than one way to skin a cat. They wanted to save weight so that was the first victim. But they also doubled the front negative camber which also compensates and brings in inherent rear axle cooperation on turn in. One may prefer to run a more conservative amount of front neg camber on a road car like the other versions of the RS. I certainly will and don't mind the extra weight as I feel 4ws does bring a lot to the mix at what is a modest weight penalty for my needs as I will only be tracking my 280 Cup 5 or 6 times a year, the brunt of my mileage being on the road.

True and well said. The engine being identical was a good decision to keep things constant with the trophy, easily could have done a remap

[Jon_S_Rally]

C.A.R. said:

Well, to put it another way, is it worth almost twice as much as a Golf GTI TCR?

~ 75kg weight saving (or closer to 100kg if you get the extra £10k carbon pack)

+10hp

= £20k+?!

Well, I guess we'll see if it is when we see how many of them sell. It's not really pitched as a direct rival to the TCR though as I see it, seeing as the TCR is a series production model, rather than an extremely limited-run special edition. The TCR doesn't have carbon ceramic brakes, carbon bonnet etc.

I think you're still missing the ultimate point though. The price, numbers sold and even the minutia of the spec are all largely irrelevant. It's designed to get people talking about Renault and R.S. products. Seeing as you're posting on the internet about it (and so am I), it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.

[nickfrog]

FaNtheMaN26 said:

True and well said. The engine being identical was a good decision to keep things constant with the trophy, easily could have done a remap

Yes although I think the engine is already on the limit thermally, hence the bonnet scoop, probably aimed at sustained track use.

[Marcodude]

The Civic is a great car no doubt. However, to address the folk saying this makes the Civic look even better. If you watch the Evo magazine youtube video, they race an previous gen Renault Megane trophy-r against the new Civic. The civic is a second or more behind it.

The trophy r has always been streets ahead and even if you are a Civic/Megane/Golf fan, you have got to be happy this car exists.

[untakenname]

Paying £65k for a fwd car is bonkers imo no matter how fast it can go round a track.

nickfrog said:

Yes although I think the engine is already on the limit thermally, hence the bonnet scoop, probably aimed at sustained track use.

Was 38 degrees at Spa yesterday!

[gutbobs]

nickfrog said:

Yes although I think the engine is already on the limit thermally, hence the bonnet scoop, probably aimed at sustained track use.

I think you're right about that.. my Trophy will put the fans on when parking after a low speed run across town

[WCZ]

Jon_S_Rally said:

Well, I guess we'll see if it is when we see how many of them sell.

i'd be surprised if they sold more than 50

[CedricN]

greenarrow said:

CraigV6 said:

whp1983 said:

It’s a £65k car in that spec (£55k base plus carbon brakes and wheels) if anything, makes type r look more impressive!

Did they use a Type R that you can buy at Spa, or was it the same one that you couldn’t / can’t buy that they used to secure the Nurburgring time?

Its a good point actually. Does anyone know what lap-time the Civic Type R has achieved in showroom spec? I'm thinking that German mag Auto Motor Und Sport often test factory spec cars at the 'Ring but I haven't seen a time quoted for the Civic.

I am yet to be convinced that any showroom spec hot hatch can actually lap in under 8 mins.....

Thats a fascinating topic, AMS did drive the previous model fk2, and were way of the factory time. However the with golf they tried for example they were just a couple of seconds behind. We will never get the true facts behind every time. But its an interesting indication. The sport auto time is as close as we get to a fair comparison.

[nickfrog]

WCZ said:

i'd be surprised if they sold more than 50

Always the optimist!

[Roma101]

whp1983 said:

It’s a £65k car in that spec (£55k base plus carbon brakes and wheels) if anything, makes type r look more impressive!

I have heard it is going to be more than that for the carbon pack and the spec of the car doing these records is more like somewhere between £70k and £80k.

If so, the car is going up against the likes of the 718 GT4. Brave move.

[Alex_225]

nickfrog said:

WCZ said:

i'd be surprised if they sold more than 50

Always the optimist!

I'm a massive RenaultSport fan and still own a Megane 225 and Twingo 133 but I wouldn't be surprised if they sold that many.

The R26.R is regarded by us an excellent hot hatch, compromised but extremely capable but there were a number that came into the country that were shipped back out unsold. Now they sell for high prices especially considering the R26 is 90% the same car and are worth a third the price.

I wouldn't be surprised if this new Trophy-R will sell in tiny numbers, not only for the fact that it's a hell of a lot of money for a fast Megane albeit an amazing one!

That said, I love the car and I'd have one if I had money to burn also it's a fantastic advertisement that puts RenaultSport back in the limelight where the last Clio 200 and initial launch of this RS Megane went a little flat.

[Jon_S_Rally]

WCZ said:

i'd be surprised if they sold more than 50

They don't even need to sell that many in reality though.