RE: Westfield to launch first fully electric kit car

[Equus]

poo at Paul's said:

Would most people after a kit car that paid "homage" in this way not prefer a drivetrain like the original?

There will be a significant number - particularly the sort of affluent elite who want to be seen to be 'green', who like the image but can't stomach a farty, dirty, underpowered Beetle engine.

Those who prefer the original drivetrain will still be able to buy one (Westfield/Chesil will offer both, as I understand it).

poo at Paul's said:

I cannot help thinking that a company like Westfield should be thinking well and truly outside the box and developing a kit style vehicle that pushes the boundaries of design and tech

How about this one:

Westfield GTM Autonomous Vehicle

[Steamer]

poo at Paul's said:

Iheathrow pods (which if you've not used them are truly excellent!)

Thanks for that - new to me!

They do look interesting and when covered in a graphic wrap seem reminiscent of something from future/retro Bladerunner

[romac]

It's amazing to see / read what Westfield are up to. Good on them!

The Chesil Speedster in electric sounds a tasty idea. I've often thought an electric open top or convertible would be a great w/e car for cruising up and down the prom!

[sisu]

An electric version of a fibreglass car that is the Terry Wogan toupee tape of Porsches?

Pop on the Status Quo and let your ponytail flutter in the breeze.

[tr3a]

Nonono, you don't want to do it like that!



Just take a featherweight sevenesque chassis, bung in an electric transaxle, doing away with the driveshaft tunnel and thereby opening up space in the cockpit, fill the engine space with enough batteries to do 100 miles on a charge and you have the most hilarious four-wheeled point-and-squirt rocket on the planet. A quiet weapon that'll give any Ariel Atom a run for its money.

[Equus]

tr3a said:

Nonono, you don't want to do it like that!

Just take a featherweight sevenesque chassis, bung in an electric transaxle, doing away with the driveshaft tunnel and thereby opening up space in the cockpit, fill the engine space with enough batteries to do 100 miles on a charge and you have the most hilarious four-wheeled point-and-squirt rocket on the planet. A quiet weapon that'll give any Ariel Atom a run for its money.

You mean like this one, with a composite monocoque, which dates back to 1992?:

[sparkythecat]

Equus said:

poo at Paul's said:

Would most people after a kit car that paid "homage" in this way not prefer a drivetrain like the original?

There will be a significant number - particularly the sort of affluent elite who want to be seen to be 'green', who like the image but can't stomach a farty, dirty, underpowered Beetle engine.

Those who prefer the original drivetrain will still be able to buy one (Westfield/Chesil will offer both, as I understand it).

poo at Paul's said:

I cannot help thinking that a company like Westfield should be thinking well and truly outside the box and developing a kit style vehicle that pushes the boundaries of design and tech

How about this one:

Westfield GTM Autonomous Vehicle

You don't have to have the farty old beetle engine these days. Subaru Impreza boxer engine conversions have been around in VDubs for quite a while

[Equus]

sparkythecat said:

You don't have to have the farty old beetle engine these days. Subaru Impreza boxer engine conversions have been around in VDubs for quite a while

Serious question, but how would you cool one in a 356 bodyshell?

[hairykrishna]

loafer123 said:

The benefit of kit cars for conversion is that the GRP shell and lightweight bespoke chassis make them very efficient to adapt and convert, with fewer batteries required than modern cars.

I think the £25k premium above was a guess. Certainly it is cheaper than that with parts readily available;

https://www.evwest.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40

The porsche conversion 'kit' on that page is 8k without batteries for ~80hp. You're looking at maybe 5k for batteries?

[sparkythecat]

Equus said:

sparkythecat said:

You don't have to have the farty old beetle engine these days. Subaru Impreza boxer engine conversions have been around in VDubs for quite a while

Serious question, but how would you cool one in a 356 bodyshell?

2 radiators, one in the back and one in the front according to this ad

http://www.ricola.co.uk/spspec.htm

I've seen others refer to using a SAAB rad

[Wilmslowboy]

Wife has a 2012 chesil, great car, fair cracks on, it has around 90bhp.

Couple of downsides are, it only has a 4 speed gearbox (so 4K revs at 80 mph), and bloody hard ride.

Looked at an electric conversion, and as said above prices came in around £10k. (Plus we would get a few £k back for the existing 1.8 engine).

We were a bit undecided, as it would make touring in it even more challenging.


Everything i’v heard is the biggest issue with Chesil ownership is dealing with factory, so ownership by Westfield has to be good thing.

I assume a £25k premium to an ICE car, would put it at mid to late £50k.

[sisu]

One other aspect you need to consider with electric conversions of old cars is the extra weight of the batteries in a crash. Whilst the 356 and Speedster replicas are not the safest things, there is a decent amount of space around you and although this wouldnt be a Chesil selling point, the fibreglass is probably safer.

Adding 50-80kgs of NiCad in blocks around me is not what I want in a crash.

[loafer123]

sisu said:

One other aspect you need to consider with electric conversions of old cars is the extra weight of the batteries in a crash. Whilst the 356 and Speedster replicas are not the safest things, there is a decent amount of space around you and although this wouldnt be a Chesil selling point, the fibreglass is probably safer.

Adding 50-80kgs of NiCad in blocks around me is not what I want in a crash.

Is the weight very different from the ICE, fuel tank etc?

I built a kit car when I was young and a friend got rear ended by a lorry in the same type of car. The lorry came off worse, other than the bodywork.

[edoverheels]

That sounds like a fantastic idea. It wouldn’t be safe for me to build one but would love a tun key version.
The worst thing about a Chesil is the engine, electric reliability would be great, very interested.

[sisu]

loafer123 said:

Is the weight very different from the ICE, fuel tank etc?

I built a kit car when I was young and a friend got rear ended by a lorry in the same type of car. The lorry came off worse, other than the bodywork.

Yes and yes.
The engine/gearbox are low and designed to be integral to the floorpan. The engine is bolted to the gearbox/framehorns. An electric motor weighs less than a VW T1 1600. The fuel tank holds maybe 35kg of fuel. Glassfibre is good at absorbing impact.
However batteries mounted in the fuel tank area/spare tire space, in the rear above the engine/gearbox are very heavy non collapsible steel.. So if you are in an accident what would be a crumple zone is now filled with battery and you have more 80kg of battery behind you. It would be much like a lorry crash where the load takes out the cab.
This is why the floor mounted battery is used now.

[loafer123]

sisu said:

loafer123 said:

Is the weight very different from the ICE, fuel tank etc?

I built a kit car when I was young and a friend got rear ended by a lorry in the same type of car. The lorry came off worse, other than the bodywork.

Yes and yes.
The engine/gearbox are low and designed to be integral to the floorpan. The engine is bolted to the gearbox/framehorns. An electric motor weighs less than a VW T1 1600. The fuel tank holds maybe 35kg of fuel. Glassfibre is good at absorbing impact.
However batteries mounted in the fuel tank area/spare tire space, in the rear above the engine/gearbox are very heavy non collapsible steel.. So if you are in an accident what would be a crumple zone is now filled with battery and you have more 80kg of battery behind you. It would be much like a lorry crash where the load takes out the cab.
This is why the floor mounted battery is used now.

Interesting - why don't the batteries go in the place where the engine was?

[Caddyshack]

loafer123 said:

sisu said:

loafer123 said:

Is the weight very different from the ICE, fuel tank etc?

I built a kit car when I was young and a friend got rear ended by a lorry in the same type of car. The lorry came off worse, other than the bodywork.

Yes and yes.
The engine/gearbox are low and designed to be integral to the floorpan. The engine is bolted to the gearbox/framehorns. An electric motor weighs less than a VW T1 1600. The fuel tank holds maybe 35kg of fuel. Glassfibre is good at absorbing impact.
However batteries mounted in the fuel tank area/spare tire space, in the rear above the engine/gearbox are very heavy non collapsible steel.. So if you are in an accident what would be a crumple zone is now filled with battery and you have more 80kg of battery behind you. It would be much like a lorry crash where the load takes out the cab.
This is why the floor mounted battery is used now.

Interesting - why don't the batteries go in the place where the engine was?

Lower the better for centre of gravity and stability

[loafer123]

Caddyshack said:

loafer123 said:

sisu said:

loafer123 said:

Is the weight very different from the ICE, fuel tank etc?

I built a kit car when I was young and a friend got rear ended by a lorry in the same type of car. The lorry came off worse, other than the bodywork.

Yes and yes.
The engine/gearbox are low and designed to be integral to the floorpan. The engine is bolted to the gearbox/framehorns. An electric motor weighs less than a VW T1 1600. The fuel tank holds maybe 35kg of fuel. Glassfibre is good at absorbing impact.
However batteries mounted in the fuel tank area/spare tire space, in the rear above the engine/gearbox are very heavy non collapsible steel.. So if you are in an accident what would be a crumple zone is now filled with battery and you have more 80kg of battery behind you. It would be much like a lorry crash where the load takes out the cab.
This is why the floor mounted battery is used now.

Interesting - why don't the batteries go in the place where the engine was?

Lower the better for centre of gravity and stability

True, but are batteries very different in mass from the engine that was there before?

[sisu]

They will be using this setup. The motor bolts to the gearbox with an adapter plate. The box above the motor is the inverter and the other box is the charge controller, it needs to be cooled but doesn't cool the batteries which is ok for trickle charging. Not good if you want to use a rapid charger. But as there is no cutting of the body you don't need an engineering check.
Motor: HPEVS AC-50
Controller: Curtis 1238 650 Amp, 96 Volt
Shunt: Deltec 600 Amp
Transmission Adapter Kit and fuel gauge.
Charger: Elcon PFC2500
J1772 Charge:  Inlet, and Controller
Throttle Control pedal from a Toyota Prius.
DC/DC Converter: 400 Watt Elcon
This costs around £8000 for these parts. You need to fabricate battery boxes/frames

The batteries are Tesla packs, these are the most powerful for the size. They cost around £1500 each used and you need 4 to get 100 mile range.

[Scrump]

sisu said:

They will be using this setup. The motor bolts to the gearbox with an adapter plate. The box above the motor is the inverter and the other box is the charge controller, it needs to be cooled but doesn't cool the batteries which is ok for trickle charging. Not good if you want to use a rapid charger. But as there is no cutting of the body you don't need an engineering check.
Motor: HPEVS AC-50
Controller: Curtis 1238 650 Amp, 96 Volt
Shunt: Deltec 600 Amp
Transmission Adapter Kit and fuel gauge.
Charger: Elcon PFC2500
J1772 Charge:  Inlet, and Controller
Throttle Control pedal from a Toyota Prius.
DC/DC Converter: 400 Watt Elcon
This costs around £8000 for these parts. You need to fabricate battery boxes/frames

The batteries are Tesla packs, these are the most powerful for the size. They cost around £1500 each used and you need 4 to get 100 mile range.

I have the info pack from Westfield and what you have posted is not quite right.

The pack I have states they are using a Hyper 9 motor with a 120v controller.
The batteries are 8X tesla model S batteries and it has a 180 -200 mile range.
The £25K price increase over the conventionally powered car is correct