RE: Porsche 718 Cayman T vs. Alpine A110
Discussion
Assuming we’re talking about road cars then using the logic above my weapon of choice would be a Caterham not a Lotus. But that’s missing the point in my eyes.
The Elise is smaller, lighter, more focussed ... but less practical.
The Alpine is bigger, heavier, less focussed ... but more practical.
Stating the blindingly obvious I know but I see the choice between the two really easy, Exige included, it just depends what you want from the car. The fascinating bit for me is that Alpine are bridging the gap between the Cayman and the ‘superlights’, maintaining a good degree of small lightweight driver focus but with bucket loads of additional practicality thrown in.
Mazda are part way there with the ND but it doesn’t quite have the same driver focus as say the Alpine.
The Elise is smaller, lighter, more focussed ... but less practical.
The Alpine is bigger, heavier, less focussed ... but more practical.
Stating the blindingly obvious I know but I see the choice between the two really easy, Exige included, it just depends what you want from the car. The fascinating bit for me is that Alpine are bridging the gap between the Cayman and the ‘superlights’, maintaining a good degree of small lightweight driver focus but with bucket loads of additional practicality thrown in.
Mazda are part way there with the ND but it doesn’t quite have the same driver focus as say the Alpine.
Edited by Simon Owen on Tuesday 30th July 09:49
Simon Owen said:
Assuming we’re talking about road cars then using the logic above my weapon of choice would be a Caterham not a Lotus. But that’s missing the point in my eyes.
The Elise is smaller, lighter, more focussed ... but less practical.
The Alpine is bigger, heavier, less focussed ... but more practical.
Stating the blindingly obvious I know but I see the choice between the two really easy, Exige included, it just depends hat you want from the car. The fascinating bit for me is that Alpine are bridging the gap between the Cayman and the ‘superlights’, maintaining a good degree of small lightweight driver focus but with bucket loads of additional practicality thrown in.
Mazda are part way there with the ND but it doesn’t quite have the same driver focus as say the Alpine.
+1 and your other half may well influence your choice. Mine never went in my Caterham, very rarely in my Elise - which makes a big difference to how much use I got out of the cars. The Cayman or Alpine is just another car that my wife is happy enough to use or drive when we don't need 4 seats or are going to Ikea. The Elise is smaller, lighter, more focussed ... but less practical.
The Alpine is bigger, heavier, less focussed ... but more practical.
Stating the blindingly obvious I know but I see the choice between the two really easy, Exige included, it just depends hat you want from the car. The fascinating bit for me is that Alpine are bridging the gap between the Cayman and the ‘superlights’, maintaining a good degree of small lightweight driver focus but with bucket loads of additional practicality thrown in.
Mazda are part way there with the ND but it doesn’t quite have the same driver focus as say the Alpine.
I did see a couple, probably in their 70s on a holiday abroad in their Caterham. Good for them - but they are a rarity.
SidewaysSi said:
Much as I thought, thanks. Seems if you actually like driving, go Lotus. Same as ever 
what utter nonsense as usual Sideways.The Alpine does have some practical drawbacks. Porsche has massively more luggage space and a far more extensive dealer network, (and although subjective a far nicer interior.) But who dares talk about such mundane considerations. All we care about is the drive, right ? The more raw the better, Caterham and Lotus are the only true choices for a proper
Lexington59 said:
what utter nonsense as usual Sideways.The Alpine does have some practical drawbacks. Porsche has massively more luggage space and a far more extensive dealer network, (and although subjective a far nicer interior.) But who dares talk about such mundane considerations. All we care about is the drive, right ? The more raw the better, Caterham and Lotus are the only true choices for a proper
....and then confirm his point?
i think Simon nailed it.
long live cars with driver involvement and may the choice be broad.
Simon Owen said:
Stating the blindingly obvious I know but I see the choice between the two really easy, Exige included, it just depends what you want from the car. The fascinating bit for me is that Alpine are bridging the gap between the Cayman and the ‘superlights’, maintaining a good degree of small lightweight driver focus but with bucket loads of additional practicality thrown in.
That's also how I see the Alpine, almost not a direct competitor for the 718. It may have a bit of a niche all to itself at the moment even...CABC said:
Lexington59 said:
what utter nonsense as usual Sideways.The Alpine does have some practical drawbacks. Porsche has massively more luggage space and a far more extensive dealer network, (and although subjective a far nicer interior.) But who dares talk about such mundane considerations. All we care about is the drive, right ? The more raw the better, Caterham and Lotus are the only true choices for a proper
....and then confirm his point?
i think Simon nailed it.
long live cars with driver involvement and may the choice be broad.
bimbeano said:
In 10 years the A110 will be ratty ? I have a 9 year old trashed Clio RS with 135,000 km on the clock. Still feels solid like a new car without rattles, let alone it looks ratty. Payed 20K Euros for it when new.
BTW, just went to pick up a friends A110 at the detailer (was in for a ceramic layer), the guy told me that the A110 is at the same level (paintwork and fit) as a Porsche ... mentioning Ferrari and McLaren really aren't in the same league.
But yeah, a Porsche is a Porsche, most people want a Poooorsche ... because it's a Porsche.
Well, maybe you'll be right. The last Clio I drove was 5 years old at the time and my experience was not like yours. My friend, who at one time had two Alpine GTAs metaphorically on blocks in his driveway, loved them but despaired of the quality and reliability. But all that was a long time ago. However, the Porsche is 200kg heavier, some of that is there to stop some of the rattling, right?BTW, just went to pick up a friends A110 at the detailer (was in for a ceramic layer), the guy told me that the A110 is at the same level (paintwork and fit) as a Porsche ... mentioning Ferrari and McLaren really aren't in the same league.
But yeah, a Porsche is a Porsche, most people want a Poooorsche ... because it's a Porsche.
Don't get me wrong, the Alpine I think is a really nice throwback to the A110, and I think it is gorgeous. If I could have bought a second hand Alpine for £10k a year or two ago I probably wouldn't have a Porsche. Though my Porsche does have a manual gearbox (lol).
All I can say is build quality didn't even register as an issue when I drove the Alpine, in fact far from it !!
My view on the interior was it was great albeit I wasn't wholly sold on the driving position and strangely raked steering wheel - that said I stepped out of the 86 where Toyota have nailed this aspect.
My view on the interior was it was great albeit I wasn't wholly sold on the driving position and strangely raked steering wheel - that said I stepped out of the 86 where Toyota have nailed this aspect.
Simon Owen said:
All I can say is build quality didn't even register as an issue when I drove the Alpine, in fact far from it !!
I was expecting to dislike the interior(I was worried about the typical French stereotype of cheap materials/badly screwed together), but I thought that it was absolutely fine and a very nice place to be. A close friend of mine loves his Alpine A110 and he also has a Clio Trophy, and I think that it is a very nice two car set up(he is a big Renault fan).
He originally had a deposit down on a Cayman GTS but changed his mind and I think that he made the right choice...because the Cayman has a different approach to the Alpine...and Porsche have tried to make the Cayman as heavy as they can!!
cerb4.5lee said:
He originally had a deposit down on a Cayman GTS but changed his mind and I think that he made the right choice...because the Cayman has a different approach to the Alpine...and Porsche have tried to make the Cayman as heavy as they can!!
The Cayman's weight is, to a significant extent as a result of sharing it's platform with the Boxster. An open car (of fairly conventional construction) is going to be heavier than a similar closed one for the same stiffness. The Boxster is VERY stiff for an open car - and is quite heavy as a result. Simply put a roof on (Cayman) and the result is pretty much the same weight as the Boxster - and quite needlessly stiff (twice as stiff as the Boxster - and nearly 4 times as stiff as a 911 Cab of the previous generation). It makes sense commercially - you get two cars for the price of one. Same scenario for the Z4 and Supra - same result.The Alpine is designed as a coupe and it will take a lot of re-engineering and a lot of added weight to make it into a convertible with adequate stiffness. Obviously Alpine have been rigorous with weight reduction too, but they started with the right approach to create a light coupe.
Lotus (and Caterham) take a different approach - but huge sills and difficult access result.
Why does no one have the curiosity (journalists in particular) to ask Porsche why their 911 GT3 (and RS) has the best electric steering system extant? ..apparently even better than that of the hydraulic system of the Lotus evora 430. And why can't Porsche make any Cayman have steering which are as good? It is due to rose jointing at the front? Is it due to having less weight of the front axle? Is Porsche simply reducing the assistance to a large degree? Why are there no other cars with electric steering that approach the feel of the 911 GT3? j
Edited by jl4069 on Tuesday 30th July 18:39
bcr5784 said:
The Boxster is VERY stiff for an open car
The Alpine is designed as a coupe and it will take a lot of re-engineering and a lot of added weight to make it into a convertible with adequate stiffness.
Lotus (and Caterham) take a different approach - but huge sills and difficult access result.
^^^ ThisThe Alpine is designed as a coupe and it will take a lot of re-engineering and a lot of added weight to make it into a convertible with adequate stiffness.
Lotus (and Caterham) take a different approach - but huge sills and difficult access result.
jl4069 said:
Why does no one have the curiosity (journalists in particular) to ask Porsche why their 911 GT3 (and RS) has the best electric steering system extant? ..apparently even better than that of the hydraulic system of the Lotus evora 430. And why can't Porsche make any Cayman have steering which are as good? It is due to rose jointing at the front? Is it due to having less weight of the front axle? Is Porsche simply reducing the assistance to a large degree? Why are there no other cars with electric steering that approach the feel of the 911 GT3? j
You mention the Cayman.Edited by jl4069 on Tuesday 30th July 18:39
The 981 GT4 steering is almost as good as the 991.2 GT3. But not quite.
3 years software development between the 2 cars has almost made gen 2 991 GT3 epas systems as good as the hydraulic steering in pre 991 GT3s.
Lexington59 said:
The Alpine does have some practical drawbacks. Porsche has massively more luggage space and a far more extensive dealer network, (and although subjective a far nicer interior.) But who dares talk about such mundane considerations. All we care about is the drive, right ?
Yes other things do matter to most people.Yes the Porsche has much more luggage space than the Alpine (or any other rival) - but do you really need more luggage space than a most hatchbacks in a 2 seater. The Alpine's luggage space is perfectly adequate for a long holiday, even if it could be easier to access. Dealer network? - fair point
Imo to get a nicer interior on the base 718 you have to add leather, get better seats, and to match the spec you have to get upgraded lights, climate, keyless entry, auto wipers and pdk obviously. Yes, I'd agree the Porsche interior can look better - but at a price.
You also need PASM to make the ride comparable. But no matter what you do you can't match the Alpine's motorway refinement.
This evening I saw an A110 in the flesh for the first time. Similar colour to the one in this article. It really is a good looking car. Its certainly a better ‘first effort’ than the first generation of Cayman.
I’m staying at the hotel by the entrance to Brands Hatch, and it was leaving the circuit, so I assume the driver had been enjoying the evening session on track.
I’m staying at the hotel by the entrance to Brands Hatch, and it was leaving the circuit, so I assume the driver had been enjoying the evening session on track.
av185 said:
You mention the Cayman.
The 981 GT4 steering is almost as good as the 991.2 GT3. But not quite.
3 years software development between the 2 cars has almost made gen 2 991 GT3 epas systems as good as the hydraulic steering in pre 991 GT3s.
Bizarre that Porsche couldn't have loaded the software update into this new Cayman GT4. Makes me wonder if its not the software but the suspension. Or if its simply that they increased the boost in this Cayman to appear as a unique feature for the new car. As well we hear now from Evo that the new 992 doesn't have good steering, how will the new GT3 992's system be? jThe 981 GT4 steering is almost as good as the 991.2 GT3. But not quite.
3 years software development between the 2 cars has almost made gen 2 991 GT3 epas systems as good as the hydraulic steering in pre 991 GT3s.
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