RE: Porsche 718 Cayman T vs. Alpine A110

[av185]

Wouldn't take much notice of Evo mag it's st these days. In fact there's a whole thread about it on here somewhere.

As for the 718 GT4 the front suspension is from the 991.2 GT3 similarly the 981 GT4 fs was from the 991.1 GT3.

I reckon the 718 GT4/Spyder steering will be great. No reason why it shouldn't be knowing Porsche GT dept.

[jl4069]

av185 said:

Wouldn't take much notice of Evo mag it's st these days. In fact there's a whole thread about it on here somewhere.

As for the 718 GT4 the front suspension is from the 991.2 GT3 similarly the 981 GT4 fs was from the 991.1 GT3.

I reckon the 718 GT4/Spyder steering will be great. No reason why it shouldn't be knowing Porsche GT dept.

I have as many issues with Evo as the next guy, but no that journalist Barker (used to know him years ago) is a great driver and knows car handling better than likely anyone else in the Uk press. Think Jaguar actually hired him to help with their chassis development. I fully trust his opinion, on cars at least.
On the new GT4 cayman, well many are saying its steering isn't that great.. a certain step down from the last gen model. I wonder if these EPAS systems will soon be as tweak-able as other software in cars. If so I assume many could work on algos that feel more natural. Seems that would be an cottage industry ripe for disruption. j

[bcr5784]

SidewaysSi said:

Much as I thought, thanks. Seems if you actually like driving, go Lotus. Same as ever

Come on - ALL road cars are a massive compromise between practicality and dynamics, road and track capability. Depending on your use/needs some will reasonably draw the line at the Cayman/Alpine/Evora level, others (equally reasonably) at the Elise/Exige level , others at the Caterham/Atom/Radical level and one or two at the BAC level. To imply that Lotus is the sweet spot (particularly as the Elise/Exige and Evora are really in different categories) doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Even a "humble" Formula Ford (or F4) will show a clean pair of heels round a short circuit to some quite exotic road cars.

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 1st August 21:13

[SidewaysSi]

bcr5784 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Much as I thought, thanks. Seems if you actually like driving, go Lotus. Same as ever

Come on - ALL road cars are a massive compromise between practicality and dynamics, road and track capability. Depending on your use/needs some will reasonably draw the line at the Cayman/Alpine/Evora level, others (equally reasonably) at the Elise/Exige level , others at the Caterham/Atom/Radical level and one or two at the BAC level. To imply that Lotus is the sweet spot (particularly as the Elise/Exige and Evora are really in different categories) doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Even a "humble" Formula Ford (or F4) will show a clean pair of heels round a short circuit to some quite exotic road cars.

Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 1st August 21:13

Oh you know that's untrue...

The Lotus provides the best blend of year round practicality, trackability and everyday useability.

The Porsche and Alpine are for softies.

[munsoon]

Like the Supra, Alpine fails badly in the 'look' department!

[bcr5784]

SidewaysSi said:

Oh you know that's untrue...

The Lotus provides the best blend of year round practicality, trackability and everyday useability.

The Porsche and Alpine are for softies.

You would therefore have to agree that the Evora is for super softies - it's no more hardcore than the Alpine or Cayman and you can even have a couple of isofix seats for your toddlers in the back.

[anonymous-user]

The earlier 'discussion' about vehicle weight is frustrating, why don't PH just weigh the things when the get them.

Not exactly hard to do.

[av185]

jl4069 said:

av185 said:

Wouldn't take much notice of Evo mag it's st these days. In fact there's a whole thread about it on here somewhere.

As for the 718 GT4 the front suspension is from the 991.2 GT3 similarly the 981 GT4 fs was from the 991.1 GT3.

I reckon the 718 GT4/Spyder steering will be great. No reason why it shouldn't be knowing Porsche GT dept.

I have as many issues with Evo as the next guy, but no that journalist Barker (used to know him years ago) is a great driver and knows car handling better than likely anyone else in the Uk press. Think Jaguar actually hired him to help with their chassis development. I fully trust his opinion, on cars at least.
On the new GT4 cayman, well many are saying its steering isn't that great.. a certain step down from the last gen model. I wonder if these EPAS systems will soon be as tweak-able as other software in cars. If so I assume many could work on algos that feel more natural. Seems that would be an cottage industry ripe for disruption. j

Strange then that Steve Sutcliffe amongst others had no issues with the 718 GT4 steering throughout his track test of the car.

[Prestonese]

av185 said:

Strange then that Steve Sutcliffe amongst others had no issues with the 718 GT4 steering throughout his track test of the car.

Interesting given he is one of the writers from the same Evo magazine you criticised?

[anonymous-user]

gottans said:

why don't PH just weigh the things when the get them.

That's always been one of life's great mysteries. The only area in need of caution would be fuel level - it's heavy stuff!

[av185]

Prestonese said:

av185 said:

Strange then that Steve Sutcliffe amongst others had no issues with the 718 GT4 steering throughout his track test of the car.

Interesting given he is one of the writers from the same Evo magazine you criticised?

Even more interesting is that he's not from Evo mag at all he is freelance.

[Prestonese]

av185 said:

Even more interesting is that he's not from Evo mag at all he is freelance.

So is Evo crap except for the articles written by freelancers? Or is it whatever you want it to be?

[av185]

Eh?

Strange reasoning.

[Prestonese]

av185 said:

Eh?

Strange reasoning.

Not really. You used his review of the GT4 which he wrote for Evo to back up your view on the steering of the GT4 but also criticise Evo for being a crap magazine. I'm just trying to make sense of your thought process there.

[Derek Chevalier]

CedricN said:

Ok tine to end the discussion , i checked a Swedish plate here, 1187kg for the alpine. Our weights in our papers have always been similar to EU weight, with driver fuel etc. So that's a comparable number. Looked up a random cayman T aswell, same way of measuring equals 1512kg (ice optioned in etc)

Soo 300kg might even be a Conservative number.

Edited by CedricN on Saturday 27th July 16:15

EVO measured the A110 at 1094kg and Cayman at 1449kg - 355kg

[SidewaysSi]

bcr5784 said:

SidewaysSi said:

Oh you know that's untrue...

The Lotus provides the best blend of year round practicality, trackability and everyday useability.

The Porsche and Alpine are for softies.

You would therefore have to agree that the Evora is for super softies - it's no more hardcore than the Alpine or Cayman and you can even have a couple of isofix seats for your toddlers in the back.

True but it does steer better than both. And Mr Metcalf seems quite fond of it.

But I am an Elise /Exige man so can't say the Alpine or Cayman really hit the mark.

[bcr5784]

SidewaysSi said:

True but it does steer better than both. And Mr Metcalf seems quite fond of it.

But I am an Elise /Exige man so can't say the Alpine or Cayman really hit the mark.

Like I say it depends on your needs. The Elise and Exige are hopeless as long distance holiday cars - too noisy and far less than half the luggage space even of the Alpine. I've dailied an Elise and its fine for shortish journeys but it's an unpleasant companion on the motorway. (I'm a fan too, but I recognise its limitations)

[thelostboy]

Simon Owen said:

All I can say is build quality didn't even register as an issue when I drove the Alpine, in fact far from it !!

My view on the interior was it was great albeit I wasn't wholly sold on the driving position and strangely raked steering wheel - that said I stepped out of the 86 where Toyota have nailed this aspect.

Want to back this up. As a Porsche owner, I thought the Alpine interior was great. Perhaps maybe some plastics are better in the Porsche, but Alpine is a nicer, more interesting place to sit for sure.

Those chucking in the "...it's a Renault" and the connotations around reliability are being very lazy.

Bravo to Alpine for making a car 300kg lighter. I respect that in the way I do the Chiron - always appreciate good engineering, and understand why that is reason alone to be interested in the car.

[Sporky]

thelostboy said:

Those chucking in the "...it's a Renault" and the connotations around reliability are being very lazy.

Particularly as Renault seem to have better reliability than Porsche - 9th vs 37th in this one:

https://www.reliabilityindex.com/manufacturer

Renault 19th, Porsche 23rd here:

https://www.whatcar.com/news/2018-what-car-reliabi...

Other fine reliability indexes (indices?) exist, of course...

[drjdog]

jl4069 said:

The electric steering cannot be helping. though I am still intrigued by what Barker wrote
https://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911-gt3/21697/porsch...

..when comparing the evora 430 with the 911 GT3. About how much better the steering felt on the Porsche! Odd as the new Cayman GT4 isn't being lauded for its steering. Makes me wonder if there isn't a market for an Alpine with reduced electric power to the steering. Maybe no power to the wheel when over 30 mph. Hope litchfeld is listening. j

Edited by jl4069 on Monday 29th July 22:59

I think Steve Sutcliffe was discussing the GT3 steering, and was suggesting that the incredible grip that the car was able to generate through the front wheels made the steering feel better on the electric car. The lower models of 911 had much less grip and zero feedback. The GT4 has 245 front tyres like a regular Carrera S. Maybe that isn't grippy enough to get past the electricity.