RE: Porsche 718 Cayman T vs. Alpine A110

[CABC]

the sad point is that Porsche have given up on weight. They have great engineers, imagine what would be their true Alpine beater?
sadly, the market has moved on and so have Porsche.
I hope that Lotus consider the 1000 - 1100kg market to be worthy for their next models.
Anyway, salut Alpine.

[Olivera]

Miserablegit said:

rockin said:

Make sure you're comparing like with like. There's probably at least 100kg discrepancy in those quoted figures,

Weight Alpine: 1,098kg ('minimum')
Weight Cayman: 1,425kg (EU with driver)

EU measurement adds 75kg just for the driver, then you get into questions like whether the Alpine's fuel tank is bone dry (Cayman's is 90% full) and even whether there's any oil in the sump, water in the radiator etc. It all adds up.

Nope - the official Alpine figures are heavier than actually tested by reviewers. Porsche has traditionally fudged figures for tests by quoting almost a bare chassis before the £25k of options is normally added.
This is a Pure chassis with the lightweight seats and is pretty much the same spec as a PE so the 1098 is probably spot on.

We know you are a huge A110 fanboy, but lets bring some truth to this discussion.

The 1098 figure is *without* driver, so we need to add 75kg to compare it to an EU weight. The EU weight also includes a 90% full tank, the A110 weight is probably empty of fuel, but let's be generous and go with a 50% tank that Evo magazine state - that's say another 20kg of fuel.

So knocking on the door of 1200kg.

[Miserablegit]

The quoted weight is for a cayman t before adding any of those options whereas the alpine will be much closer to the quoted weight. On the Cayman they’ve even optioned back in the hifi that was the weight saving measure and is the basis of the quoted EU weight...


Call me a fanboy as much as you want but I’m not blinkered by Porsche PR.

[Olivera]

Miserablegit said:

The quoted weight is for a cayman t before adding any of those options whereas the alpine will be much closer to the quoted weight. On the Cayman they’ve even optioned back in the hifi that was the weight saving measure and is the basis of the quoted EU weight...

Actually the WLTP legislation changed how manufacturers quote EU weight, they are now much more accurate and reflect more of the cars typical spec.

Regardless, you are still failing to acknowledge that you need to add 100kg to the quoted Alpine weight (driver + 90% tank of fuel) before you can compare it to the Porsche weight.

Having said that, even a ~200kg (realistic) difference between the two is a great achievement, that's two adult males and luggage!

[CABC]

whole fanboy accusation is interesting as Alpine is essentially a new brand. I always wanted a Porsche from boyhood, but the Alpine better represents that dream. Do Porsche fanboys ever drive other cars? really? and look beyond the solid clunk of the doors (undoubtedly reassuring).

[acalex]

Having just picked up my A110 Legende this week I can only say what a great little car it is, in every respect. All the comments and comparisons about weight, speed, engine size etc are fair enough, but you can't get away from the overall let's say desirability. The selling dealer explained, to which I agreed totally, that people who bought the A110 were doing so because it's:
Small and light
Had great reviews
Is such a pretty car, even better in real life
Extremely easy to drive and live with
Economical!
Rare as ...I never saw one on UK roads in around a year
That's a winning combination in my book, even if economy itself is never going to be a prime mover in buying a car like this.
The bad news? Luggage space is fairly diabolical. Oh, and order lead time now seems to be into 2020.....

[CedricN]

Ok tine to end the discussion , i checked a Swedish plate here, 1187kg for the alpine. Our weights in our papers have always been similar to EU weight, with driver fuel etc. So that's a comparable number. Looked up a random cayman T aswell, same way of measuring equals 1512kg (ice optioned in etc)

Soo 300kg might even be a Conservative number.

Edited by CedricN on Saturday 27th July 16:15

[Venisonpie]

CedricN said:

Ok tine to end the discussion , i checked a Swedish plate here, 1187kg for the alpine. Our weights in our papers have always been similar to EU weight, with driver fuel etc. So that's a comparable number. Looked up a random cayman T aswell, same way of measuring equals 1512kg (ice optioned in etc)

So over 300kgs still. That's massive.

[Nerdherder]

Besides two small plucks of 'yo' language a VERY good article and love that is has tonnes of enjoyable pictures.
Well done Dan and Chris!

[bimbeano]

SFO said:

184hp MX5 is similar weight to A110 at half the price, albeit less powerful but just as fun if not more so.

An MX5 is a fun car .... and then you try the A110 .... ;-)

[bimbeano]

Venisonpie said:

CedricN said:

Ok tine to end the discussion , i checked a Swedish plate here, 1187kg for the alpine. Our weights in our papers have always been similar to EU weight, with driver fuel etc. So that's a comparable number. Looked up a random cayman T aswell, same way of measuring equals 1512kg (ice optioned in etc)

So over 300kgs still. That's massive.

Let’s wait for the Porsches fanboy answer now 😸

[unsprung]

Who could take a serious dislike to either car?

I do prefer the Alpine, just because it is the road less traveled, as it were. That "Miami Blue" colour, though -- just fabulous.

[cerb4.5lee]

unsprung said:

That "Miami Blue" colour, though -- just fabulous.

People do seem to really rave about Miami Blue but I'm not a fan, it surprises me though because Blue is usually my favourite colour with cars. It is far too light for my taste.

[SpudLink]

CABC said:

the sad point is that Porsche have given up on weight. They have great engineers, imagine what would be their true Alpine beater?
sadly, the market has moved on and so have Porsche.
I hope that Lotus consider the 1000 - 1100kg market to be worthy for their next models.
Anyway, salut Alpine.

When I started reading this thread I was going to post something about how this might encourage more manufacturers to focus on lightweight cars. (Even if only for their lower volume models.). But thinking about it I just can’t see it happening. The normal car buyer doesn’t care enough, and it seems like it requires too much engineering focus. The market seems to dictate they put their effort into better bluetooth connectivity.
Hopefully I’m wrong. I would really like to see the likes of BMW makes a sports car the size and weight of an MX-5.

[Gandahar]

Slight problem with the Porsche is the stigma of the driver not being able to drive it to the extent it is able. It is just some middle aged folk fannying about in it who drive it 30% of it's potential.

An Alpine driver though when you see them driving it ...

[unsprung]

cerb4.5lee said:

People do seem to really rave about Miami Blue but I'm not a fan, it surprises me though because Blue is usually my favourite colour with cars. It is far too light for my taste.

I understand what you mean about the light hue. It's possibly a sort of cyan.

I suspect that the car, in this particular colour, looks most interesting when drenched in the sort of bright sunshine that one finds when closer to the equator. But I'm just guessing.

[anonymous-user]

Gandahar said:

Slight problem with the Porsche is the stigma of the driver not being able to drive ...

What a pathetic post.

[Nerdherder]

unsprung said:

cerb4.5lee said:

People do seem to really rave about Miami Blue but I'm not a fan, it surprises me though because Blue is usually my favourite colour with cars. It is far too light for my taste.

I understand what you mean about the light hue. It's possibly a sort of cyan.

I suspect that the car, in this particular colour, looks most interesting when drenched in the sort of bright sunshine that one finds when closer to the equator. But I'm just guessing.

I am not o fan of it on 911's but think it suits the cayman very well. The new Aventurine Green I expect will be great too, but have not seen it in the metal yet.

[bcr5784]

rockin said:

Make sure you're comparing like with like. There's probably at least 100kg discrepancy in those quoted figures,

Weight Alpine: 1,098kg ('minimum')
Weight Cayman: 1,425kg (EU with driver)

EU measurement adds 75kg just for the driver, then you get into questions like whether the Alpine's fuel tank is bone dry (Cayman's is 90% full) and even whether there's any oil in the sump, water in the radiator etc. It all adds up.

Alpine weights are DIN weights and real with 90% full tank as DIN specifies. 1098 is the weight of a Pure - the Legende with "comfort" seats is 1127kg. My PE with pretty much every option except Legende seats is 1105kg DIN. Add in options to match the Alpine base spec (especially PDK and radio etc) and you will be back with a 300kg advantage.to the Alpine. Porsche are playing their usual trick of specifying the car with no cost options like the infotainment system, and fitting a small fuel tank to give the impression of weight saving. It's a con.

[Helicopter123]

Delighted that these cars exist.

My money would go into the Porsche, just a stunning bit of kit.