RE: Porsche 911 Carrera launched with 385hp

[blueg33]

nunpuncher said:

I think when it comes to used 911s the ratio of pure driving enthusiast owners increases in relation to the age of the car. Porsche salesman generally only have experience of new and nearly new cars.

Same with the mechanics. Took a 930 Turbo with an ignition fault to a main dealer (in Spain) they spent some time looking for an OBD socket, they said they didn't know what the problem was (we diagnosed failed coil in the rain at the roadside), eventually they found an old guy who had worked there for ever, and he diagnosed faulty coil.

I think the main Porsche dealers are just like an Audi dealership or a merc dealership, many of the staff are not really enthusiastic about the cars, just the cachet.

[av185]

I 8 a 4RE said:

I know and this reply will make people chortle, but to me, it is really killing the brand. Driving enthusiasts in Porsches are few and far between.
I would have hoped a brand like Porsche would protect a certain % of their cars to not go in for profits only.

The final thing that put me off of buying the GTS; I was excited to be part of the Porsche Club GB, but after going to an event I thought I had gone to an old age pensioners club.
Now there is no age-ism here, but what I thought would be a driving enthusiast's club turned out to be a 4WD, PDK, 4 wheel steering, traction control on at all times ... club.

It's sad to see Porsche's fantastic products whither on the vine like that.

But Porsche do sell a proportion of their cars to appeal to enthusiasts. GT Porsches.

At sensible money too. In fact they deliberately underprice them. Perhaps to appeal to enthusiasts more. But it's all to do with the branding of course.

The GTS is a lukewarm 911 to bridge the gap between the S and more expensive models.

Of you want a more focussed and hardcore Porsche with 2wd and a fantastic n.a. engine, manual transmission and immersive driving experience get a Porsche GT.

Freedom of choice is a remarkable thing.

[HighwayStar]

Raygun said:

SidewaysSi said:

Raygun said:

Wonder what variant of their model range they're going to release tomorrow?

Edited by Raygun on Tuesday 30th July 05:57

I presume they aren't as they launched this today.

But tomorrow 'new day, new variant'

What variant of the Porsche model range was released yesterday?

[nunpuncher]

GT03ROB said:

The basic car. It's all you really need. Plenty good enough. Although I really don't think they have enough of a sporty feel. I've always felt the latter day 911s are more GT than sports car. Whereas the GTs are the real sports cars of the 911 range. Bit ironic really!

I feel exactly the same but always feel like I'm churning out stereotypical comments on the later 911s. Regardless... they are just too big, too fast, too comfortable, too refined etc for me. The USP of a 911 blurs into fast Audi, BMW territory more and more with each iteration and for me the appeal peaked at the 997.

It's probably my age as I care less about having new, going really fast and whether the dashboard will mirror the crap my phone constantly tries to feed me than I do about just enjoying driving even at slow speed.

[Pesty]

I see we’ve got the usual I’m the true car enthusiast if you like the latest 911 you’re not a real driver posts.

It’s so tiresome don’t you lit ever get bored of it ?

Only see it on the Porsche forums. I’ve seen quite a few now of this latest Gen. And to me it’s the best looking by far. Sleek modern take on the same old shape love it it’s going to drive we’ll handle like a dream be fast but. Eerg it’s got air con so if you buy it you suck. Stop liking what I don’t like or your racist not a real driver

But not hardly any of you buy a lotus or a caterham

[av185]

nunpuncher said:

I feel exactly the same but always feel like I'm churning out stereotypical comments on the later 911s. Regardless... they are just too big, too fast, too comfortable, too refined etc for me.

Try a 991.2 GT3 'manuel' Clubsport. More hardcore and a much better package than the 991.1 and 997 imo.

More hardcore, no filters to stifle genuine amazing sound, noisier( in a fantastic way...Cup car engine 9k revs), and more challenging to extract the performance from, even on the road, than a 991.1. GT3.

Probably the sweet spot as a rapid and truly involving contemporary Porsche GT.

[DSC OFF]

av185 said:

But Porsche do sell a proportion of their cars to appeal to enthusiasts. GT Porsches.

At sensible money too. In fact they deliberately underprice them. Perhaps to appeal to enthusiasts more. But it's all to do with the branding of course.

The GTS is a lukewarm 911 to bridge the gap between the S and more expensive models.

Of you want a more focussed and hardcore Porsche with 2wd and a fantastic n.a. engine, manual transmission and immersive driving experience get a Porsche GT.

Freedom of choice is a remarkable thing.

The price of a GT Porsche/the model range choice is irrelevant when you cant even get on the dealers "list". I don't think you can call any car sensible money when you're talking about 100k. Porsche is the most profitable car company in the world for a reason.

its irrelevant because I cant afford one anyway. but I think the "specialness" of the base car is gone now. I know its a broken record every time a new generation comes out, but this time I really think its become too big and cosseting. There is a lot less emotion in a 992. And yes I've been out in an S

[130R]

The usual nonsense being posted here from self-titled "driving enthusiasts". It's a daily driver not a track car. No one wants a noisy hardcore lightweight, with rock hard suspension and a spartan interior for that purpose.

[av185]

130R said:

The usual nonsense being posted here from self-titled "driving enthusiasts". It's a daily driver not a track car. No one wants a noisy hardcore lightweight, with rock hard suspension and a spartan interior for that purpose.

Eh?

If you care to read my post properly you will see it is direct response to Nunpunchers comments that 911s have become generally diluted over the years.

Kapiche?

[WCZ]

it's basically £90k with a few options like xenons and paint

either way it seems like a poor amount of power for the money
carrera - £83k - 385bhp

Quadrifoglio - £61k -503bhp
m5 - £88k - 592bhp
A45s - £50k - 421bhp
c63s - £79k - 503bhp

even a cayman gts has just 15hp less and is only £59k

[130R]

av185 said:

Eh?

If you care to read my post properly you will see it is direct response to Nunpunchers comments that 911s have become generally diluted over the years.

Kapiche?

Wasn't directing my comment at you. I agree if you want a more focussed car Porsche already make GT cars.

[av185]

WCZ said:

it's basically £90k with a few options like xenons and paint

either way it seems like a poor amount of power for the money
carrera - £83k - 385bhp

Quadrifoglio - £61k -503bhp
m5 - £88k - 592bhp
A45s - £50k - 421bhp
c63s - £79k - 503bhp

even a cayman gts has just 15hp less and is only £59k

Wouldn't say any of those cars are direct comparables. The first four are essentially family barges.

The Cayman has a ceiling price which buyers will pay whereas buyers will pay a premium for a 911.

[Jon_S_Rally]

I'm really struggling with the styling of these cars. They have gone from simple and elegant, to fussy and bulbous. Even the 991 was still a nice looking car really, but the rear end of this just looks a bit of a mess to me. The exhaust/diffuser area is fussy and the rear light 'bar' that goes across the rear just looks too high and makes the rear bumper look even more weird.

I don't think there's ever been a generation of 911 that I haven't liked from a styling perspective, but this one has finally gone too far I think.

[WCZ]

av185 said:

Wouldn't say any of those cars are direct comparables. The first four are essentially family barges.

The Cayman has a ceiling price which buyers will pay whereas buyers will pay a premium for a 911.

they're comparable imo, most people I know who own 911's use them as daily drivers and don't track them - they drive to the office and back and have had m5's etc in the past

I personally would want a bit more power for £83k knowing that similar or cheaper priced cars were up 207bhp , xenons as standard would be welcome too.

[anonymous-user]

HighwayStar said:

Raygun said:

SidewaysSi said:

Raygun said:

Wonder what variant of their model range they're going to release tomorrow?

Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 30th July 05:57

I presume they aren't as they launched this today.

But tomorrow 'new day, new variant'

What variant of the Porsche model range was released yesterday?

Give in, tell me?

[TartanPaint]

WCZ said:

it's basically £90k with a few options like xenons and paint

either way it seems like a poor amount of power for the money
carrera - £83k - 385bhp

Quadrifoglio - £61k -503bhp
m5 - £88k - 592bhp
A45s - £50k - 421bhp
c63s - £79k - 503bhp

even a cayman gts has just 15hp less and is only £59k

Well, if your only party trick is how much power you have, then I guess such things matter. Thankfully it probably doesn't matter to many Porsche owners, so Porsche don't need to completely ruin a nice Carrera by giving it 450bhp.

It'll be a sad day when Porsche/Lotus/Alpine and others have to play BHP Top Trumps to remain desirable.

[browngt3]

I 8 a 4RE said:

I know and this reply will make people chortle, but to me, it is really killing the brand. Driving enthusiasts in Porsches are few and far between.
I would have hoped a brand like Porsche would protect a certain % of their cars to not go in for profits only.

The final thing that put me off of buying the GTS; I was excited to be part of the Porsche Club GB, but after going to an event I thought I had gone to an old age pensioners club.
Now there is no age-ism here, but what I thought would be a driving enthusiast's club turned out to be a 4WD, PDK, 4 wheel steering, traction control on at all times ... club.

It's sad to see Porsche's fantastic products whither on the vine like that.

What event did you go to? Have to say it's not my experience. The club has 22000 members and I'm quite sure a good percentage are genuine enthusiasts. Indeed, the Porsche world in general possibly has the most enthusiastic and knowledgeable base of any brand - Lotus and Caterham excepted of course

[browngt3]

av185 said:

nunpuncher said:

I feel exactly the same but always feel like I'm churning out stereotypical comments on the later 911s. Regardless... they are just too big, too fast, too comfortable, too refined etc for me.

Try a 991.2 GT3 'manuel' Clubsport. More hardcore and a much better package than the 991.1 and 997 imo.

More hardcore, no filters to stifle genuine amazing sound, noisier( in a fantastic way...Cup car engine 9k revs), and more challenging to extract the performance from, even on the road, than a 991.1. GT3.

Probably the sweet spot as a rapid and truly involving contemporary Porsche GT.

+1

I would add that I drove a 992 C2S in the wet at the Silverstone PEC on Saturday. I was able to directly compare it with a 991 2GTS which I drove first. The 992 was a revelation the way it handled around that tight track. Where the 991 under-steered heavily there was none at all in the 992. It was even quite tail happy under power which made it fun. If anything it was a more hard core drive. I was both surprised and impressed.

[simonbamg]

looks great id spec it with the 20/21 wheels, sweet spot

[BigChiefmuffinAgain]

I think Porsche have, as usual, got this pretty much spot on.

Their job with the 911 is to sell as many cars as possible, for as much money as possible. There's a greater market for a slightly more comfortable, practical, easy to drive sports car, and that is exactly what they have delivered.

If more of the people who bemoan the lack of a manual etc actually bought the cars, then I am sure that Porsche ( and Ferrari, Maclaren et al ) would respond in kind - all these people want to do is maximize their profits, which generally means selling as many cars as they feel the market can take/ they can make, at as high a price for each as possible. It's not their fault that not enough people actually buy manual cars these days to make them cost effective to manufacture...