RE: McLaren plots 720S Longtail for 2020

[Gameface]

cookie1600 said:

RobDown said:

another day, another new McLaren model announced.

These aren't the supercars you're looking for....

[Maldini35]

Gameface said:

That you perpetuate.

2 short sentences does not signify any level of emotion or care on a subject.

You can pretend it does if you wish.

No pretending needed sir.
Apologies for derailing the thread but you don’t seem to understand what we’re saying here.

The length of the comment is immaterial.

The fact he bothered to log in and type a comment at all signifies that - at some level - he does give a t055.

Perhaps McLaren aren’t building the type of car he wants and he felt compelled to express his dissatisfaction.
I’m sure McLaren’s product strategy doesn’t keep him up at night but I would argue that his post shows that he does care - even if only a tiny bit.

If he genuinely had zero feelings on the subject he would simply have scrolled down to the next story - like we all do, countless times a day, every time we visit a forum.

On a separate note I do find it gently amusing that we are arguing over the posting intentions of a complete stranger.

The internet does strange things to us all🤪

[MDL111]

Juno said:

GranCab said:

Juno said:

With the 7xx LT coming in at £300k plus fully specked it makes this 600LT look somewhat of a bargain

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

I'm guessing that one is on S.O.R. ... would dread to think what a McStealership would offer for it.

£150k ? That would be a bargain

certainly makes used cars like the 991 GT3 and GT3RS look rather overpriced. the only possible selling point they have over this is the arguably special engine (although the McLarens do rev quite high as well and I'd guess the engineering that went into these engines is also substantial)

[Gameface]

... Sighs inwardly...

I understand perfectly.

I also understand you're boring me with this.

Now I need you to understand I won't be commenting on it again.

[Maldini35]

Gameface said:

... Sighs inwardly...

I understand perfectly.

I also understand you're boring me with this.

Now I need you to understand I won't be commenting on it again.

Hallelujah

[Guvernator]

Oh good, another McLaren, haven't had one of those for a while.

[Juno]

MDL111 said:

Juno said:

GranCab said:

Juno said:

With the 7xx LT coming in at £300k plus fully specked it makes this 600LT look somewhat of a bargain

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

I'm guessing that one is on S.O.R. ... would dread to think what a McStealership would offer for it.

£150k ? That would be a bargain

certainly makes used cars like the 991 GT3 and GT3RS look rather overpriced. the only possible selling point they have over this is the arguably special engine (although the McLarens do rev quite high as well and I'd guess the engineering that went into these engines is also substantial)

I agree with what you say if you look at it as the sum of the parts then the Porsche does look over priced.

However I think the years and years of evolution coupled to the short supply of GT cars for many years now gives Porsche a very strong heritage advantage. The N/A engine also makes it quite unique as well and I think although nice to have anything over 500HP on the road is a bit of a waste. I also don’t see that many Macs or Porsche’s at track days anymore so it’s not like many people need all those horses anyway

[MDL111]

Juno said:

MDL111 said:

Juno said:

GranCab said:

Juno said:

With the 7xx LT coming in at £300k plus fully specked it makes this 600LT look somewhat of a bargain

https://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/...

I'm guessing that one is on S.O.R. ... would dread to think what a McStealership would offer for it.

£150k ? That would be a bargain

certainly makes used cars like the 991 GT3 and GT3RS look rather overpriced. the only possible selling point they have over this is the arguably special engine (although the McLarens do rev quite high as well and I'd guess the engineering that went into these engines is also substantial)

I agree with what you say if you look at it as the sum of the parts then the Porsche does look over priced.

However I think the years and years of evolution coupled to the short supply of GT cars for many years now gives Porsche a very strong heritage advantage. The N/A engine also makes it quite unique as well and I think although nice to have anything over 500HP on the road is a bit of a waste. I also don’t see that many Macs or Porsche’s at track days anymore so it’s not like many people need all those horses anyway

agree, even 500 is bordering on too much on the road imo (Autobahn being the exception, more is always better there), esp if not coupled with a manual. Am now looking at 996 GT3 and Challenge Stradale again

[E65Ross]

Guvernator said:

Oh good, another McLaren, haven't had one of those for a while.

If your garage on here is up to date, you haven't ever had one by the looks of it (like me)

[TypeRTim]

Just to dispel the 'Another Day, Another Mclaren' myth.

Porsche currently sell way more variants of their models! Just looking at their sports cars alone!

Porsche:
Boxster -> 718, 718S, 718T, GTS
Cayman -> 718, 718S. 718T, GTS, GT4
911 -> Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera GTS, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Turbo, Turbo S, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 RS

Total: 19 variations across 3 models

Mclaren:
Sports Series -> 540C, 570S, 600LT
Super Series -> 720S
Ultimate Series -> Senna, Speedtail
GT Series -> GT

Total: 7 variations across 4 models

I concede that you could make the case that the Boxster is just a convertible Cayman and i haven't included the roofless models Mclaren produce. That would add the 570S spider and 600LT spider to the sports series and the 720S spider to the super series. Taking the total to 10 variations across the 4 models.

But then, I haven't included the convertible/Targa 911s either. That would add the Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera 4s and Turbo cabriolets, Targa 4 and Targa 4S. Taking the total to 25 across 3 models.

But wait, there's more! You also have the speedsters! So the 911 Speedster and the 718 Spyder taking it to 27 variations.

Yeah, Mclaren are ludicrous with all of their different model variations and them being so similar! Porsche have more variations in the 911 model line than Mclaren do across their whole range!

[E65Ross]

TypeRTim said:

Just to dispel the 'Another Day, Another Mclaren' myth.

Porsche currently sell way more variants of their models! Just looking at their sports cars alone!

Porsche:
Boxster -> 718, 718S, 718T, GTS
Cayman -> 718, 718S. 718T, GTS, GT4
911 -> Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera GTS, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Turbo, Turbo S, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 RS

Total: 19 variations across 3 models

Mclaren:
Sports Series -> 540C, 570S, 600LT
Super Series -> 720S
Ultimate Series -> Senna, Speedtail
GT Series -> GT

Total: 7 variations across 4 models

I concede that you could make the case that the Boxster is just a convertible Cayman and i haven't included the roofless models Mclaren produce. That would add the 570S spider and 600LT spider to the sports series and the 720S spider to the super series. Taking the total to 10 variations across the 4 models.

But then, I haven't included the convertible/Targa 911s either. That would add the Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera 4s and Turbo cabriolets, Targa 4 and Targa 4S. Taking the total to 25 across 3 models.

But wait, there's more! You also have the speedsters! So the 911 Speedster and the 718 Spyder taking it to 27 variations.

Yeah, Mclaren are ludicrous with all of their different model variations and them being so similar! Porsche have more variations in the 911 model line than Mclaren do across their whole range!

I like McLarens, but I think the gripe many have is that they all use a similar engine, they're all mid-engined and use a carbon tub.

I don't have any issues with it personally.

[MDL111]

TypeRTim said:

Just to dispel the 'Another Day, Another Mclaren' myth.

Porsche currently sell way more variants of their models! Just looking at their sports cars alone!

Porsche:
Boxster -> 718, 718S, 718T, GTS
Cayman -> 718, 718S. 718T, GTS, GT4
911 -> Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera GTS, Carrera 4, Carrera 4S, Turbo, Turbo S, GT3, GT3 RS, GT2 RS

Total: 19 variations across 3 models

Mclaren:
Sports Series -> 540C, 570S, 600LT
Super Series -> 720S
Ultimate Series -> Senna, Speedtail
GT Series -> GT

Total: 7 variations across 4 models

I concede that you could make the case that the Boxster is just a convertible Cayman and i haven't included the roofless models Mclaren produce. That would add the 570S spider and 600LT spider to the sports series and the 720S spider to the super series. Taking the total to 10 variations across the 4 models.

But then, I haven't included the convertible/Targa 911s either. That would add the Carrera, Carrera S, Carrera 4s and Turbo cabriolets, Targa 4 and Targa 4S. Taking the total to 25 across 3 models.

But wait, there's more! You also have the speedsters! So the 911 Speedster and the 718 Spyder taking it to 27 variations.

Yeah, Mclaren are ludicrous with all of their different model variations and them being so similar! Porsche have more variations in the 911 model line than Mclaren do across their whole range!

bit of a pointless comparison imo, it is like comparing McLaren to BMW - Porsche produces I think more than 200k cars a year and I believe sth like 30-40k 911s.

You should compare it to Ferrari or Lamborghini to have a more meaningful result imo.

From memory for Ferrari (they will add some more variations to these soon)

V12 model: Lusso (V12), 812
V8 models: 488, 488 Pista, Portofino, Lusso (V8)
Hybird Models (v8 based): SF90
Special stuff: Monza SP1 and SP2

[Guvernator]

E65Ross said:

Guvernator said:

Oh good, another McLaren, haven't had one of those for a while.

If your garage on here is up to date, you haven't ever had one by the looks of it (like me)

And nor would I if my numbers came up, that's the point I and a few others are making I think. Much as I admire the company it just doesn't get my juices flowing I'm afraid, think I'd rather have something from the Lambo stable. N\A, lovely noise and better looking. I want my supercar to be a bit more super.

[TypeRTim]

E65Ross said:

I like McLarens, but I think the gripe many have is that they all use a similar engine, they're all mid-engined and use a carbon tub.

I don't have any issues with it personally.

911 -> all rear engined, all flat 6, and all look exactly the same. And now, they're even all turbocharged.

Ok, unfair comparison as the 911 is a single model, but there are still more variations on that one single model than Mclaren have in their entire lineup.

So for Mclaren -
They all use a carbon tub because that is the best way to do it. It is stronger and lighter than any other material combination.
They're all mid-engined because that is the best place to put it to ensure the best balance and weight distribution.
They all use a similar engine. So does every other car maker in the world. Chevrolet use the same 6.2 v8 in the camaro and Corvette. Mercedes use the same v8 in the c63, e63, s63, g63, AMG GT, AMG GTs, AMG GTr. The list goes on. Any car maker would be absolutely mad to build a separate platform for each model that they sell and then use completely bespoke engines for each variant within there with no crossover whatsoever. Ferrari use the same base engine in the California T, GTC4 Lusso, Portofino, 488, F8 Tributo and the SF90 stradale (F154 engine family). Yet, they are not getting the same criticism??

[Guvernator]

Ferrari use the same engine across some of their current model range but have only been using that engine for a couple of years. McLaren have used the same engine for the best part of a decade. During that time, Ferrari have probably gone through at least 3 iterations. Also Ferrari make v12's.

All manufacturers part share but Ferrari's entry model is a very different beast to it's v12 range toppers.

To me the McLaren offerings are too similar baring a few tweaks to the styling and different power outputs. More worryingly there isn't a single car in there range that I'd pick over one of the rival's alternatives should I ever have the means.

Yes they've done a hell of a job getting to where they are in just 10 short but I wish they'd mix things up a bit more.

I can see why some people appreciate them and I still think the F1 is one of the best cars to ever be made but the current offerings just leave me a bit cold.

[Maldini35]

TypeRTim said:

So for Mclaren -
They all use a carbon tub because that is the best way to do it. It is stronger and lighter than any other material combination.
They're all mid-engined because that is the best place to put it to ensure the best balance and weight distribution.
They all use a similar engine. So does every other car maker in the world. Chevrolet use the same 6.2 v8 in the camaro and Corvette. Mercedes use the same v8 in the c63, e63, s63, g63, AMG GT, AMG GTs, AMG GTr. The list goes on. Any car maker would be absolutely mad to build a separate platform for each model that they sell and then use completely bespoke engines for each variant within there with no crossover whatsoever. Ferrari use the same base engine in the California T, GTC4 Lusso, Portofino, 488, F8 Tributo and the SF90 stradale (F154 engine family). Yet, they are not getting the same criticism??

Good summation

Obviously cars are subjective and we all like different things but it is strange how a McLaren thread brings out so many detractors - every time, without fail.
Quite often they seem to be Ferrari or Lambo owners too (if their garages are to be believed).
Both fantastic brands making great cars.
Not sure why some of their owners feel so compelled to put the boot into McLaren.
Insecurity? Misplaced loyalty? Fear about residuals?
Who knows?
Bizarre.

Haters gonna hate I guess

[isaldiri]

MDL111 said:

certainly makes used cars like the 991 GT3 and GT3RS look rather overpriced. the only possible selling point they have over this is the arguably special engine (although the McLarens do rev quite high as well and I'd guess the engineering that went into these engines is also substantial)

Only if performance is your main metric to judge the cars. In that sense yes Mclaren offer a frankly unbelieveable amount of performance for the price of entry. However going beyond that, in general you can be rather more sure that the Porsche will work despite being used on track very heavily and the cost of consumables while very very high (21 rears are an idiotic idea for a car to be heavily tracked), compared to Mclaren it's much less and given the numbers of GT cars one can obviously see at every trackday (esp euro track day), the cars are clearly robust enough to do that. And when there is a problem Porsche are probably likely to stand behind one of their cars somewhat better than Mclaren as well ime.

There is no way I would be quite as comfortable with the same amount/type of usage on the Mclaren.

[justin220]

Can't wait to see this. Bound to be a game changer

[E65Ross]

isaldiri said:

There is no way I would be quite as comfortable with the same amount/type of usage on the Mclaren.

I wonder what the average annual mileage for a 911 GT2 RS is?

[unsprung]

E65Ross said:

isaldiri said:

There is no way I would be quite as comfortable with the same amount/type of usage on the Mclaren.

I wonder what the average annual mileage for a 911 GT2 RS is?

Be the guy at the leading edge of the bell curve!