RE: McLaren plots 720S Longtail for 2020

[E65Ross]

TypeRTim said:

E65Ross said:

They are vastly different cars, just see reviews of the Urus vs the Bentayga etc, they are very different to drive from a dynamics perspective as well as refinement etc. If they drive very different, feel very different, and give different ownership propositions, why is that an issue they share some parts?

Why do people then complain about Mclaren doing the same?

No idea. I'm not one of them.

[TypeRTim]

E65Ross said:

No idea. I'm not one of them.

That was my argument in a weird way, but got sidetracked in to the whole SUV thing.

[Maldini35]

E65Ross said:

Now, I just think that if they were to make an SUV "off the cuff", in reality, it wouldn't be much different from the Urus anyway, so why bother spend many, many £millions developing something which would ultimately be the same?

They are vastly different cars, just see reviews of the Urus vs the Bentayga etc, they are very different to drive from a dynamics perspective as well as refinement etc. If they drive very different, feel very different, and give different ownership propositions, why is that an issue they share some parts?

You’re not wrong, it makes perfect business sense. Lamborghini are merely responding to market forces.
As one automotive CEO remarked when asked ‘what he made?’
“Profit” was the resounding answer.
That is the reality and it was ever thus.

I guess I just don’t like the large automotive group structures where the future of different brands (some with proud histories and distinct identities) are decided by faceless corporate committees with little passion or empathy.

This is the world we live in but I don’t have to like it.

[Never you mind]

AdamV12AMR said:

Davey S2 said:

A bit lighter, a bit faster and a bit more hardcore. It will no doubt be brilliant but at what will be £300K once specced you'd have to really, really want one above a very low miles 720 at around £170K

[two hours later...]

Davey S2 said:

A bit lighter, a bit faster and a bit more hardcore. It will no doubt be brilliant but at what will be £300K once specced you'd have to really, really want one above a very low miles 720 at around £160K

[ A few hours later ...]

Davey S2 said:

A bit lighter, a bit faster and a bit more hardcore. It will no doubt be brilliant but at what will be £300K once specced you'd have to really, really want one above a very low miles 720 at around £150K

As it happens I was speaking with someone the other day and a client of theirs has just taken a 100K hit on a 720s in just under a year - that's roughly 10K per month in deprecation.

[Leon R]

Maldini35 said:

E65Ross said:

Now, I just think that if they were to make an SUV "off the cuff", in reality, it wouldn't be much different from the Urus anyway, so why bother spend many, many £millions developing something which would ultimately be the same?

They are vastly different cars, just see reviews of the Urus vs the Bentayga etc, they are very different to drive from a dynamics perspective as well as refinement etc. If they drive very different, feel very different, and give different ownership propositions, why is that an issue they share some parts?

You’re not wrong, it makes perfect business sense. Lamborghini are merely responding to market forces.
As one automotive CEO remarked when asked ‘what he made?’
“Profit” was the resounding answer.
That is the reality and it was ever thus.

I guess I just don’t like the large automotive group structures where the future of different brands (some with proud histories and distinct identities) are decided by faceless corporate committees with little passion or empathy.

This is the world we live in but I don’t have to like it.

There is plenty of passion in the automotive industry and some of the cars made today are just as exciting as they ever have been.

The problem is that everyone just focuses on whatever negative they can think of so things like it's too heavy, it isn't powerful enough / it isn't as fast as x, it is too expensive, and it will depreciate too quickly are almost always the first comments made when something new is announced.

[Juno]

Never you mind said:

AdamV12AMR said:

Davey S2 said:

A bit lighter, a bit faster and a bit more hardcore. It will no doubt be brilliant but at what will be £300K once specced you'd have to really, really want one above a very low miles 720 at around £170K

[two hours later...]

Davey S2 said:

A bit lighter, a bit faster and a bit more hardcore. It will no doubt be brilliant but at what will be £300K once specced you'd have to really, really want one above a very low miles 720 at around £160K

[ A few hours later ...]

Davey S2 said:

A bit lighter, a bit faster and a bit more hardcore. It will no doubt be brilliant but at what will be £300K once specced you'd have to really, really want one above a very low miles 720 at around £150K

As it happens I was speaking with someone the other day and a client of theirs has just taken a 100K hit on a 720s in just under a year - that's roughly 10K per month in deprecation.

[Wammer]

I get really pissed off by the McLaren bashing that goes on on this forum. So lets pretend other marques were launched 10 years ago:

Ferrari 1947 - 1957

Cars:15
Layout: F/R
Engine: V12

Porsche 1948 - 1958

Cars: 1
Layout: R/R
Engine: 4 cylinder

(before anyone starts, i'm not including Porsche race cars as they were only made in very small numbers)

Pagani 1999 - 2009

Cars: 1
Layout: M/R
Engine: V12

So whats the problem with McLaren going with the same idea for 10 years when Ferrari & Porsche did the same when they started out.

Pagani still does the same layout and engine 20 years later but you never here people saying they should offer a front engine or a V8 do you.

[mikey k]

Interesting perspective

[S1KRR]

Wammer said:

I get really pissed off by the McLaren bashing that goes on on this forum. So lets pretend other marques were launched 10 years ago:

Ferrari 1947 - 1957

Cars:15
Layout: F/R
Engine: V12

Porsche 1948 - 1958

Cars: 1
Layout: R/R
Engine: 4 cylinder

(before anyone starts, i'm not including Porsche race cars as they were only made in very small numbers)

Pagani 1999 - 2009

Cars: 1
Layout: M/R
Engine: V12

So whats the problem with McLaren going with the same idea for 10 years when Ferrari & Porsche did the same when they started out.

Pagani still does the same layout and engine 20 years later but you never here people saying they should offer a front engine or a V8 do you.

Excluding Pagani since they are only ever going to be a "one model at a time" type of company.

The problem for McLaren is that THEY are telling everyone they need to launch as many models as possible. I forget the number but wasn't it 15 new cars over the next 3 years or something horrendous. They have made this rod for their back. But the new problem for McLaren is that you can just keep making slightly different variants of the same 2 seat car. Doesn't matter how much faster or better they are than the preceding model.

In todays market place, you HAVE to diversify your range. Its why there's now seemingly EVERY niche available at BMW, MB, Audi etc

If Porsche ONLY made the 911. They'd have gone bankrupt years ago. More models (particularly the SUVs which outsell 911 now!) mean more potential buyers.

(Stereotyping a little) If the husband has a Turbo. And his wife wants a car to take the 2.4 kids to school. Until Cayenne Turbo, she would have bought a Range Rover Sport. Similarly if they wanted a fast saloon for that job? They'd have been looking at an M5 or E63. Now with Panamera and the Sport Turismo Variant, they can attract the buyers as they'll be dropping the Turbo in for service. More money for Porsche. Which means indirectly more motorsport and more GT3/2 cars being developed.

Why do you think Lambo made the Urus? Or Bentley the Bentayga? Even Rolls relented and made the Cullinan. Heck even Ferrari are thinking of a SUV, and they already have various 4 seat cars. in multiple engine configurations and layouts. It's ALL about making MORE money

[unpc]

S1KRR said:

If Porsche ONLY made the 911. They'd have gone bankrupt years ago.

Can't believe people still swallow this horsest. They didn't just make the 911 but had the front engined stuff too and they we doing pretty well. To suggest that the SUVs pay for the GT variants is laughable.

Difference now is they are making shed loads of cash instead of modest profits.

[DB89]

https://youtu.be/dP7edrqwh_8

LT test mule maybe at the Nurburgring.

Edited by DB89 on Friday 16th August 00:41

[mikey k]

unpc said:

S1KRR said:

If Porsche ONLY made the 911. They'd have gone bankrupt years ago.

Can't believe people still swallow this horsest. They didn't just make the 911 but had the front engined stuff too and they we doing pretty well. To suggest that the SUVs pay for the GT variants is laughable.

Difference now is they are making shed loads of cash instead of modest profits.

Well it was the Boxster with the Cayenne in support.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a10371527...

Lets face it with out those, the Macan, the Panamera and of course VAG, they wouldn't be building as many GT and hyper cars

[mikey k]

DB89 said:

https://youtu.be/dP7edrqwh_8

LT test mule maybe at the Nurburgring.

Edited by DB89 on Friday 16th August 00:41

Interesting
Very much doubt that is the final aero design
Well I hope so, I hate those front canards

[Wammer]

S1KRR said:

Wammer said:

I get really pissed off by the McLaren bashing that goes on on this forum. So lets pretend other marques were launched 10 years ago:

Ferrari 1947 - 1957

Cars:15
Layout: F/R
Engine: V12

Porsche 1948 - 1958

Cars: 1
Layout: R/R
Engine: 4 cylinder

(before anyone starts, i'm not including Porsche race cars as they were only made in very small numbers)

Pagani 1999 - 2009

Cars: 1
Layout: M/R
Engine: V12

So whats the problem with McLaren going with the same idea for 10 years when Ferrari & Porsche did the same when they started out.

Pagani still does the same layout and engine 20 years later but you never here people saying they should offer a front engine or a V8 do you.

Excluding Pagani since they are only ever going to be a "one model at a time" type of company.

The problem for McLaren is that THEY are telling everyone they need to launch as many models as possible. I forget the number but wasn't it 15 new cars over the next 3 years or something horrendous. They have made this rod for their back. But the new problem for McLaren is that you can just keep making slightly different variants of the same 2 seat car. Doesn't matter how much faster or better they are than the preceding model.

In todays market place, you HAVE to diversify your range. Its why there's now seemingly EVERY niche available at BMW, MB, Audi etc

If Porsche ONLY made the 911. They'd have gone bankrupt years ago. More models (particularly the SUVs which outsell 911 now!) mean more potential buyers.

(Stereotyping a little) If the husband has a Turbo. And his wife wants a car to take the 2.4 kids to school. Until Cayenne Turbo, she would have bought a Range Rover Sport. Similarly if they wanted a fast saloon for that job? They'd have been looking at an M5 or E63. Now with Panamera and the Sport Turismo Variant, they can attract the buyers as they'll be dropping the Turbo in for service. More money for Porsche. Which means indirectly more motorsport and more GT3/2 cars being developed.

Why do you think Lambo made the Urus? Or Bentley the Bentayga? Even Rolls relented and made the Cullinan. Heck even Ferrari are thinking of a SUV, and they already have various 4 seat cars. in multiple engine configurations and layouts. It's ALL about making MORE money

Im not saying they shouldn't diversify but you have to establish a brand before changing things up. Ferrari took 21 years to add a V6 or V8 in to there range.

I just think people need a bit more perspective. McLaren have only been producing cars for the last 10 years, its incredible what they have a achieved.

It took Bentley 5 years to come up with the continental GT with its 4wd system and W12 engine but thats nothing to them in there 100 year history but think how much R&D and man power that took. I reckon it took more than McLaren's entire workforce.

[SidewaysSi]

I do find McLaren such a predictable and boring brand. Cars are OK but can't see myself ever putting money into one. And yes I have driven a few.

Don't think they have sorted quality either have they?

Same old st, different day.

[RumbleOfThunder]

SidewaysSi said:

I do find McLaren such a predictable and boring brand. Cars are OK but can't see myself ever putting money into one. And yes I have driven a few.

Don't think they have sorted quality either have they?

Same old st, different day.

That's a really inspirational hot take there, mate.

[S1KRR]

unpc said:

Can't believe people still swallow this horsest. They didn't just make the 911 but had the front engined stuff too and they we doing pretty well. To suggest that the SUVs pay for the GT variants is laughable.

Difference now is they are making shed loads of cash instead of modest profits.

Global Porsche Sales by Model 2018


For comparison to when they made front engine cars in the 80s

7k 930'd made
Same period (ish)
163K 944's made.

Proves my point that you need to diversify!

Tell me again how if they had continued to make ONLY the 911 they would have kept the bank manager from the door?

Wammer said:

Im not saying they shouldn't diversify but you have to establish a brand before changing things up. Ferrari took 21 years to add a V6 or V8 in to there range.

I just think people need a bit more perspective. McLaren have only been producing cars for the last 10 years, its incredible what they have a achieved.

It took Bentley 5 years to come up with the continental GT with its 4wd system and W12 engine but thats nothing to them in there 100 year history but think how much R&D and man power that took. I reckon it took more than McLaren's entire workforce.

I agree.

But they are the ones telling us this. They are the ones who keep fiddling with the cars and releasing them as newer models

But they cant change now...

Today they've also previewed ANOTHER 2 seat car with the same engine position and architecture. It's like no one has pointed out the facts to them!