RE: Next BMW M3 confirmed as all-wheel drive...
Discussion
cerb4.5lee said:
E65Ross said:
My old man used to have an M6 with the DCT box and now has a Jag F Type R, which uses the ZF 8 speed auto. I have driven both cars on multiple occasions and, to be honest, I think the 8 speed 'box is the better unit to have. So is the Jag's engine, mind. The interior, less so....feels very cheap in places.
I'm another one that prefers the ZF8 auto to the DCT. The DCT is great for when you are really on it but not so great when your not. Whereas the ZF8 still has punchy gearchanges but it is much better at doing everything else for me. BMWs marketing seems to work wonders which is probably why these jap cars have been such slow sellers.
jamoor said:
cerb4.5lee said:
E65Ross said:
My old man used to have an M6 with the DCT box and now has a Jag F Type R, which uses the ZF 8 speed auto. I have driven both cars on multiple occasions and, to be honest, I think the 8 speed 'box is the better unit to have. So is the Jag's engine, mind. The interior, less so....feels very cheap in places.
I'm another one that prefers the ZF8 auto to the DCT. The DCT is great for when you are really on it but not so great when your not. Whereas the ZF8 still has punchy gearchanges but it is much better at doing everything else for me. BMWs marketing seems to work wonders which is probably why these jap cars have been such slow sellers.
jamoor said:
BMWs marketing seems to work wonders which is probably why these jap cars have been such slow sellers.
Haha .. or maybe because it’s not as good as an M3 (particularly the E9x) as a drivers car? I have owned a BBR MX5 and Subaru Impreza in my last 4 cars so country of origin isn’t a factor. Ultimately I cannot drive every car but if you find me a UK review of the IS-F where Chris Harris is salivating over the Lexus then maybe i’ll try one .. 
fido said:
jamoor said:
BMWs marketing seems to work wonders which is probably why these jap cars have been such slow sellers.
Haha .. or maybe because it’s not as good as an M3 (particularly the E9x) as a drivers car? I have owned a BBR MX5 and Subaru Impreza in my last 4 cars so country of origin isn’t a factor. Ultimately I cannot drive every car but if you find me a UK review of the IS-F where Chris Harris is salivating over the Lexus then maybe i’ll try one .. Either way I will make my own opinion rather than wait for someone else to guide me to which cars I should buy/drive.
jamoor said:
fido said:
jamoor said:
BMWs marketing seems to work wonders which is probably why these jap cars have been such slow sellers.
Haha .. or maybe because it’s not as good as an M3 (particularly the E9x) as a drivers car? I have owned a BBR MX5 and Subaru Impreza in my last 4 cars so country of origin isn’t a factor. Ultimately I cannot drive every car but if you find me a UK review of the IS-F where Chris Harris is salivating over the Lexus then maybe i’ll try one .. Either way I will make my own opinion rather than wait for someone else to guide me to which cars I should buy/drive.
HighwayStar said:
jamoor said:
fido said:
jamoor said:
BMWs marketing seems to work wonders which is probably why these jap cars have been such slow sellers.
Haha .. or maybe because it’s not as good as an M3 (particularly the E9x) as a drivers car? I have owned a BBR MX5 and Subaru Impreza in my last 4 cars so country of origin isn’t a factor. Ultimately I cannot drive every car but if you find me a UK review of the IS-F where Chris Harris is salivating over the Lexus then maybe i’ll try one .. Either way I will make my own opinion rather than wait for someone else to guide me to which cars I should buy/drive.
I also couldn't find the spec I wanted when I was looking (blue post 2011 car as I think that is when they added the LSD with less than 40,000 miles) which shows how rare they are.
jamoor said:
HighwayStar said:
Lol... they must all be on the take from BMW then... I agree with making up your own mind though. M3 drivers made up there own minds and for what they wanted, swerved Lexus.
You realise I owned both at the same time 
cerb4.5lee said:
I've also always thought how great the E92 M3 would be with the engine from the C63 AMG(the 6.2 V8). 
The stroked version (4.4) of the S65 in the GTS would be tasty. It’s almost like they didn’t want to make the standard car too good. But compared to the foibles with the auto (8-speed i don’t need), harsh suspension, poise and 90’s interior of the Lexus i still sent my hard-earned to BMW. I suspect the same with the new offerings .. AWD got an extra 50kg is not alotWills2 said:
I did 90,000 miles in 33 months in a new F80 M3, it was serviced 5 times in that period as per the CBS, it never missed a beat it's still in the local area and still driving beautifully with zero issues 12 months later, some people really don't know what they are on about and think we're still in the 70's when it comes to car servicing.
You can of course avoid all these issues you describe and pony up for a new car.....
90k miles, 5 years = on average service each 18k miles. For you to do 90k in 33 months in would most likely have been m-way driving, so the most car friendly constant-speed driving.You can of course avoid all these issues you describe and pony up for a new car.....
But I digress. UK has a very weird attitude to car servicing. I mean people here argue that a car is reliable and well built because they've had it from new for less than a year and it's fine.
It's funny how you seem to be so eager to believe manufacturers when they say that servicing a car every 20k miles (or even more) is ok. The same manufacturers that lie about emissions and have been lying about MPG figures for years.
E65Ross said:
RobM77 said:
simonwhite2000 said:
PhantomPH said:
Roma101 said:
Bladedancer said:
A1VDY said:
No one, absolutely no one 'buys' these cars, they're all rented out and returned we'll f
ked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays..
This is perhaps the saddest element of motoring these days.ked after 3 years. Available to everyone nowadays.. People don't own these cars so they don't take care of them. This just adds to the disposable goods culture we're seeing everywhere. Shame people who champion for eco solutions and recycling don't see how much waste is created by this.
I think people forget that 'renting' (as they put it) or buying on finance, still costs an absolute chunk of cash on cars of this bracket. By and large, I suspect most people look after the things they are paying hundreds (and thousands) of pounds to use.
thole.When you're renting the landlord is responsible for repairs of things that are considered "wear and tear", replacement of say, white goods, light fixing etc. - unless you broke / destroyed them.
When it's your house - its your house. You fix it all.
It is just weird how so many of you don't seem to understand the issue at all. This isn't about treating your rented house as a s-hole. Or a car for that matter. And I've never said EVERYONE. You all seem to think that because YOU take car of things then EVERYONE does. That is just not true, not matter how much you want to believe in it.
Renting/PCPing a car means you get to hand it back and don't have to deal with the sale or anything that comes with it. As long as the condition meets the minimum requirements, you're good.
In your house/flat analogy it would be this situation: You've rented for 3 years, you've cleaned the place up, replaced anything you broke and generally looked after it. But before next person moves in the place would really need to be re-painted, carpets, though now cleaned before you've moved out, are pass their prime and one of the windows has a bit of a draft. This is not damage, this is wear and tear. Since you're renting, landlord has to deal with that. If you owned the property and wanted to sell it, you'd have to fix it, or reflect it in the price.
But I digress and I can see this is getting nowhere because you don't seem to get my point.
Bladedancer said:
Wills2 said:
I did 90,000 miles in 33 months in a new F80 M3, it was serviced 5 times in that period as per the CBS, it never missed a beat it's still in the local area and still driving beautifully with zero issues 12 months later, some people really don't know what they are on about and think we're still in the 70's when it comes to car servicing.
You can of course avoid all these issues you describe and pony up for a new car.....
90k miles, 5 years = on average service each 18k miles. For you to do 90k in 33 months in would most likely have been m-way driving, so the most car friendly constant-speed driving.You can of course avoid all these issues you describe and pony up for a new car.....
But I digress. UK has a very weird attitude to car servicing. I mean people here argue that a car is reliable and well built because they've had it from new for less than a year and it's fine.
It's funny how you seem to be so eager to believe manufacturers when they say that servicing a car every 20k miles (or even more) is ok. The same manufacturers that lie about emissions and have been lying about MPG figures for years.
Edited by E65Ross on Friday 8th November 09:00
Bladedancer said:
No, it does not stand, though I do agree with the latter.
When you're renting the landlord is responsible for repairs of things that are considered "wear and tear", replacement of say, white goods, light fixing etc. - unless you broke / destroyed them.
When it's your house - its your house. You fix it all.
It is just weird how so many of you don't seem to understand the issue at all. This isn't about treating your rented house as a s-hole. Or a car for that matter. And I've never said EVERYONE. You all seem to think that because YOU take car of things then EVERYONE does. That is just not true, not matter how much you want to believe in it.
Renting/PCPing a car means you get to hand it back and don't have to deal with the sale or anything that comes with it. As long as the condition meets the minimum requirements, you're good.
In your house/flat analogy it would be this situation: You've rented for 3 years, you've cleaned the place up, replaced anything you broke and generally looked after it. But before next person moves in the place would really need to be re-painted, carpets, though now cleaned before you've moved out, are pass their prime and one of the windows has a bit of a draft. This is not damage, this is wear and tear. Since you're renting, landlord has to deal with that. If you owned the property and wanted to sell it, you'd have to fix it, or reflect it in the price.
But I digress and I can see this is getting nowhere because you don't seem to get my point.
Actually renting a car (i.e., Hertz/Avis car hire) the owner is liable for maintenance/repairs etc and you pay a deposit against that.When you're renting the landlord is responsible for repairs of things that are considered "wear and tear", replacement of say, white goods, light fixing etc. - unless you broke / destroyed them.
When it's your house - its your house. You fix it all.
It is just weird how so many of you don't seem to understand the issue at all. This isn't about treating your rented house as a s-hole. Or a car for that matter. And I've never said EVERYONE. You all seem to think that because YOU take car of things then EVERYONE does. That is just not true, not matter how much you want to believe in it.
Renting/PCPing a car means you get to hand it back and don't have to deal with the sale or anything that comes with it. As long as the condition meets the minimum requirements, you're good.
In your house/flat analogy it would be this situation: You've rented for 3 years, you've cleaned the place up, replaced anything you broke and generally looked after it. But before next person moves in the place would really need to be re-painted, carpets, though now cleaned before you've moved out, are pass their prime and one of the windows has a bit of a draft. This is not damage, this is wear and tear. Since you're renting, landlord has to deal with that. If you owned the property and wanted to sell it, you'd have to fix it, or reflect it in the price.
But I digress and I can see this is getting nowhere because you don't seem to get my point.
Leasing a car means that you (the driver) are liable and no deposit is held.
But is makes f
k all difference to car care. Own, PCP or lease. If you are proud of your car, you'll look after it. If a car is a white good, you may be less inclined to do so.My next-door neighbours have a leased Merc SUV (his) and an owned Mazda SUV (hers). The Merc is given a lot more care than the Mazda.
Ares said:
Actually renting a car (i.e., Hertz/Avis car hire) the owner is liable for maintenance/repairs etc and you pay a deposit against that.
Leasing a car means that you (the driver) are liable and no deposit is held.
But is makes fk all difference to car care. Own, PCP or lease. If you are proud of your car, you'll look after it. If a car is a white good, you may be less inclined to do so.
My next-door neighbours have a leased Merc SUV (his) and an owned Mazda SUV (hers). The Merc is given a lot more care than the Mazda.
Have a read of any “leased car going back next month” threads and you will see posters trying to wriggle out of servicing ,tyres and any damage to save a few quid!Leasing a car means that you (the driver) are liable and no deposit is held.
But is makes f
k all difference to car care. Own, PCP or lease. If you are proud of your car, you'll look after it. If a car is a white good, you may be less inclined to do so.My next-door neighbours have a leased Merc SUV (his) and an owned Mazda SUV (hers). The Merc is given a lot more care than the Mazda.
Maybe your neighbour is trying to fool people into thinking he’s not renting!
E65Ross said:
And yet you have no data to prove that oil after, say, 15k miles isn't doing its job very well? I know of someone who got their old BMW oil sampled. It had had oil changes every 15k miles or 2 years, whichever was soonest. The sample test (just before another service) revealed the oil was still performing well and the oil was in good health. That was on a car around 15 years old. I can't see why you seem to think 18k miles between oil changes would be a problem, especially considering it's clearly done lots of motorway miles.
I’m giving my M5 an oil change every half interval now (at 130k) just for piece of mind, not that I think it’s vital. There’s nothing forcing an owner to adhere to CBS should there be any concerns about oil longevity.Edited by E65Ross on Friday 8th November 09:00
R.Sole said:
Have a read of any “leased car going back next month” threads and you will see posters trying to wriggle out of servicing ,tyres and any damage to save a few quid!
Maybe your neighbour is trying to fool people into thinking he’s not renting!
In my experience it’s far cheaper and easier to hand over a lease to BCA and let them apply the standard charges than it is to rectify minor issues yourself.Maybe your neighbour is trying to fool people into thinking he’s not renting!
I’d far rather hand back a lease car than negotiate a trade value, whatever state it was in.
R.Sole said:
Ares said:
Actually renting a car (i.e., Hertz/Avis car hire) the owner is liable for maintenance/repairs etc and you pay a deposit against that.
Leasing a car means that you (the driver) are liable and no deposit is held.
But is makes fk all difference to car care. Own, PCP or lease. If you are proud of your car, you'll look after it. If a car is a white good, you may be less inclined to do so.
My next-door neighbours have a leased Merc SUV (his) and an owned Mazda SUV (hers). The Merc is given a lot more care than the Mazda.
Have a read of any “leased car going back next month” threads and you will see posters trying to wriggle out of servicing ,tyres and any damage to save a few quid!Leasing a car means that you (the driver) are liable and no deposit is held.
But is makes f
k all difference to car care. Own, PCP or lease. If you are proud of your car, you'll look after it. If a car is a white good, you may be less inclined to do so.My next-door neighbours have a leased Merc SUV (his) and an owned Mazda SUV (hers). The Merc is given a lot more care than the Mazda.
Maybe your neighbour is trying to fool people into thinking he’s not renting!
As for my neighbour, yes, maybe he's like you. So pig-stubborn that he will pay a huge premium just to say he's not 'renting'.
Actually...no-one is as pig-stubborn as you. And he's the first to say that he's saving £3-figures a month by leasing.
theboss said:
R.Sole said:
Have a read of any “leased car going back next month” threads and you will see posters trying to wriggle out of servicing ,tyres and any damage to save a few quid!
Maybe your neighbour is trying to fool people into thinking he’s not renting!
In my experience it’s far cheaper and easier to hand over a lease to BCA and let them apply the standard charges than it is to rectify minor issues yourself.Maybe your neighbour is trying to fool people into thinking he’s not renting!
I’d far rather hand back a lease car than negotiate a trade value, whatever state it was in.
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