RE: Next BMW M3 confirmed as all-wheel drive...
Discussion
Terminator X said:
dunc_sx said:
Disastrous news 
Switch it to RWD if ditch finding is your thing.TX.
There’s 2 RWD cars I have driven that I truly enjoyed them being RWD, a manual E36 328i with no TC and a Lexus IS200 manual, they’re the only cars I could get the back end out for a brief moment and have a bit of fun before I run out of talent/road. It’s fun in cars under 200 bhp that are sheds as it doesn’t matter if you bin it. That’s how I feel. I’d rather buy a RWD 328i over a AWD 328i (if they made one in RHD).
Now that’s my opinion and some people’s will differ but I don’t see how someone can truly make the most of an M3/4 with all that torque low down on public roads!
To moan/get upset about a 510 bhp twin turbo M3 going AWD is frankly ridiculous unless you’re a car journalist/regular track user and if you were the latter, you’d probably have a Lotus for track days.
I’m happy with the fact it’s now AWD and hopefully one day I’ll buy one and fully enjoy hitting the redline. I tested 2 M4’s and barely got to open either of them up because of the fact they’re RWD.
E65Ross said:
RSTurboPaul said:
E65Ross said:
Peanus said:
RSTurboPaul said:
I'm pleased to see people actually interested in driving, rather than having the fastest thing possible on PCP to show off their 'lifestyle'.
Imagine being this affected by how people choose to spend their own money I must be terrible because I bought my house with a mortgage and I have to pay it off monthly....I couldn't afford to buy it outright, clearly I need to hand my PH membership in!
Anyone with an ounce of common sense or driving ability would not deliberately hinder another person on the road, and would not actively increase the risk to that person by creating a situation where a head-on collision becomes more likely, but for those financing a 'lifestyle', I imagine they will later that evening be boasting about how they 'showed that old car some real power'
If someone can afford to rent a 60k car and drives it properly, using advanced driving techniques (or even just not actively trying to be a bell-end) and applying an appropriate attitude, good for them, and I am pleased to see nice cars being driven well. But frankly I'm a little fed up trying not to get killed by retarded f
kwits who think renting something new and trying to belittle others while increasing danger to the other driver makes them 'better'.Edited by RSTurboPaul on Monday 5th August 15:21
I suppose nobody other than an F1 driver should own a supercar by your logic?
Your post smacks of jealousy. Who cars if you may be faster in what is a slower car? Aside from you, that is.
But we'll done for being such a great racing driver on public roads, you're a true hero and a paragon of awesomeness.
Oh, and why do you assume that situation wouldn't have arisen if they were driving a different car that they bought? You see that sort of situation quite frequently, even in clapped out old cars, so what difference does the fact they may be renting the car have?
Edited by E65Ross on Monday 5th August 19:27
To reiterate, my point was that people are buying increasingly quicker cars (because finance) but they are not increasing their driving skills accordingly, or adapting the attitude they probably had in their earlier, cheaper, slower cars (in which one could very likely floor the throttle and not have 90% of a large turbocharged engine's torque arrive by 2000rpm, which seems to be the modern way of mapping a car).
So rather than just letting others (like myself) make progress where it is safe to do so, in smaller engined cars that require wringing out a bit, they would rather show off how torque-y/fast their shiny new cars are and/or use the power to prove some sort of point, even though doing so puts others in danger when it is done without thought of consequences (i.e. stranding someone on the offside mid-overtake by closing the gap they were planning to return to, which is the example I have experienced twice recently).
One doesn't have to drive a fast car fast all the time, or even at all if one just likes to potter about riding a wall of torque and hearing a large engine burble, but to use the power contained within modern machinery inappropriately causes danger to others that seems to usually not be considered by those doing it. It is that which I have an issue with.
Edited by RSTurboPaul on Monday 5th August 19:55
E65Ross said:
Your post smacks of jealousy. Who cars if you may be faster in what is a slower car? Aside from you, that is.
But we'll done for being such a great racing driver on public roads, you're a true hero and a paragon of awesomeness.
And that's the irony. Self proclaimed driving enthusiasts who practice their craft on the public road have rarely impressed me. But we'll done for being such a great racing driver on public roads, you're a true hero and a paragon of awesomeness.
Regular track drivers, at a pace not compatible with road use and even in humble road cars, on the other hand...
Chestrockwell said:
The RWD argument drives me mad.
There’s 2 RWD cars I have driven that I truly enjoyed them being RWD, a manual E36 328i with no TC and a Lexus IS200 manual, they’re the only cars I could get the back end out for a brief moment and have a bit of fun before I run out of talent/road. It’s fun in cars under 200 bhp that are sheds as it doesn’t matter if you bin it. That’s how I feel. I’d rather buy a RWD 328i over a AWD 328i (if they made one in RHD).
Now that’s my opinion and some people’s will differ but I don’t see how someone can truly make the most of an M3/4 with all that torque low down on public roads!
To moan/get upset about a 510 bhp twin turbo M3 going AWD is frankly ridiculous unless you’re a car journalist/regular track user and if you were the latter, you’d probably have a Lotus for track days.
I’m happy with the fact it’s now AWD and hopefully one day I’ll buy one and fully enjoy hitting the redline. I tested 2 M4’s and barely got to open either of them up because of the fact they’re RWD.
That's a load of nonsense, however I get the impression you're not that experienced with cars like this. There’s 2 RWD cars I have driven that I truly enjoyed them being RWD, a manual E36 328i with no TC and a Lexus IS200 manual, they’re the only cars I could get the back end out for a brief moment and have a bit of fun before I run out of talent/road. It’s fun in cars under 200 bhp that are sheds as it doesn’t matter if you bin it. That’s how I feel. I’d rather buy a RWD 328i over a AWD 328i (if they made one in RHD).
Now that’s my opinion and some people’s will differ but I don’t see how someone can truly make the most of an M3/4 with all that torque low down on public roads!
To moan/get upset about a 510 bhp twin turbo M3 going AWD is frankly ridiculous unless you’re a car journalist/regular track user and if you were the latter, you’d probably have a Lotus for track days.
I’m happy with the fact it’s now AWD and hopefully one day I’ll buy one and fully enjoy hitting the redline. I tested 2 M4’s and barely got to open either of them up because of the fact they’re RWD.
I enjoyed my F80 M3 CP. For 450hp it wasn't a psycho at all and you could exploit it pretty amazingly considering the torque available low down. On track in dry and wet it was pretty surefooted.
I did everything in its from the daily urban commute to NC500 to track days to Euro jaunts and it did all of them with aplomb.
In the end it was nicked, and in 15 months it lost just shy of £25k, fortunately covered by all the insurances, but I have a big soft spot for it and look forward to the new one.
E65Ross said:
I will say no chance.
Why? Because the new 3 series doesn't have that grille.....
It doesn't you're right but the M3 hasn't had the 3 series saloon front end since the launch of the e9* variant back in 2007 since then it has shared its front end with the coupe version (4 series as it's now called) and the new 4 series is going to get a much more distinctive grille than the current G20 3er.Why? Because the new 3 series doesn't have that grille.....
Of course the render might not be perfect as it's a educated guess, but the point about an enlarged deeper grille is correct.
janesmith1950 said:
Chestrockwell said:
The RWD argument drives me mad.
There’s 2 RWD cars I have driven that I truly enjoyed them being RWD, a manual E36 328i with no TC and a Lexus IS200 manual, they’re the only cars I could get the back end out for a brief moment and have a bit of fun before I run out of talent/road. It’s fun in cars under 200 bhp that are sheds as it doesn’t matter if you bin it. That’s how I feel. I’d rather buy a RWD 328i over a AWD 328i (if they made one in RHD).
Now that’s my opinion and some people’s will differ but I don’t see how someone can truly make the most of an M3/4 with all that torque low down on public roads!
To moan/get upset about a 510 bhp twin turbo M3 going AWD is frankly ridiculous unless you’re a car journalist/regular track user and if you were the latter, you’d probably have a Lotus for track days.
I’m happy with the fact it’s now AWD and hopefully one day I’ll buy one and fully enjoy hitting the redline. I tested 2 M4’s and barely got to open either of them up because of the fact they’re RWD.
That's a load of nonsense, however I get the impression you're not that experienced with cars like this. There’s 2 RWD cars I have driven that I truly enjoyed them being RWD, a manual E36 328i with no TC and a Lexus IS200 manual, they’re the only cars I could get the back end out for a brief moment and have a bit of fun before I run out of talent/road. It’s fun in cars under 200 bhp that are sheds as it doesn’t matter if you bin it. That’s how I feel. I’d rather buy a RWD 328i over a AWD 328i (if they made one in RHD).
Now that’s my opinion and some people’s will differ but I don’t see how someone can truly make the most of an M3/4 with all that torque low down on public roads!
To moan/get upset about a 510 bhp twin turbo M3 going AWD is frankly ridiculous unless you’re a car journalist/regular track user and if you were the latter, you’d probably have a Lotus for track days.
I’m happy with the fact it’s now AWD and hopefully one day I’ll buy one and fully enjoy hitting the redline. I tested 2 M4’s and barely got to open either of them up because of the fact they’re RWD.
I enjoyed my F80 M3 CP. For 450hp it wasn't a psycho at all and you could exploit it pretty amazingly considering the torque available low down. On track in dry and wet it was pretty surefooted.
I did everything in its from the daily urban commute to NC500 to track days to Euro jaunts and it did all of them with aplomb.
In the end it was nicked, and in 15 months it lost just shy of £25k, fortunately covered by all the insurances, but I have a big soft spot for it and look forward to the new one.
Now that’s obviously down to me and him as drivers but I don’t see how it’s a bad thing that BMW are trying to cater to people with less skill. I’m only responding to the posters acting like BMW decided to put a 1.5 hybrid 3 cyl in the M3 and make it FWD
The first F80 M3's were a bit nutty if I'm honest but in a good way but yes it was a car you could imagine might get away from you. My LCI version was still a bit of a nutter but the addition of PS4S tyres and a firmware flash to latest Istep level mid way through having the car solved the issues and made it much more linear, so much so that I actually missed it being a bit wayward.
I did 90,000 miles in it in all weathers including a memorable 200 mile journey home during the beast from the east in -10c on roads blanketed in snow and it didn't bite me once in fact it seemed just as willing to get home as I did as it sorted out my hamfisted attempts to keep it in a straight line. .
I did 90,000 miles in it in all weathers including a memorable 200 mile journey home during the beast from the east in -10c on roads blanketed in snow and it didn't bite me once in fact it seemed just as willing to get home as I did as it sorted out my hamfisted attempts to keep it in a straight line. .
In the end people have lost sight of how much power these things have. Traction and stability control has the reverse effect of its intention most of the time, masking reality and making physics feel cuddly. Until the music stops.
Adding 4wd makes the music louder. But it will still stop at some point and then every time I wish the driver had just had some time to truly learn about the car.
My own M4 is like its alter ego with the driver aids on. It’s not really displaying its true character and actually as a result it is more difficult to trust because you don’t know as easily how far into the safety margin you are eating.
Switch off everything and just drive the damned things. If it feels a bit hairy then guess what? It is a bit hairy and how about backing off a bit? If it feels great? Push it harder. These things were never a problem. DSC can’t beat physics and neither car 4wd. Too many times there isn’t enough respect for the reality of what 450hp and turbocharged torque means and that’s made worse by the magazines for making it sound like a rear drive road car with those kinds of numbers behind it should be drivable at the limit by anyone with a license when actually it takes effort to learn it and half of the pleasure is in the mastery.
I won’t be selling my M4 for the new one. The loss would be too great and happily I don’t feel the need to replace it. If the M2 CSL ever surfaces I may have a problem!
Adding 4wd makes the music louder. But it will still stop at some point and then every time I wish the driver had just had some time to truly learn about the car.
My own M4 is like its alter ego with the driver aids on. It’s not really displaying its true character and actually as a result it is more difficult to trust because you don’t know as easily how far into the safety margin you are eating.
Switch off everything and just drive the damned things. If it feels a bit hairy then guess what? It is a bit hairy and how about backing off a bit? If it feels great? Push it harder. These things were never a problem. DSC can’t beat physics and neither car 4wd. Too many times there isn’t enough respect for the reality of what 450hp and turbocharged torque means and that’s made worse by the magazines for making it sound like a rear drive road car with those kinds of numbers behind it should be drivable at the limit by anyone with a license when actually it takes effort to learn it and half of the pleasure is in the mastery.
I won’t be selling my M4 for the new one. The loss would be too great and happily I don’t feel the need to replace it. If the M2 CSL ever surfaces I may have a problem!
janesmith1950 said:
Chestrockwell said:
The RWD argument drives me mad.
There’s 2 RWD cars I have driven that I truly enjoyed them being RWD, a manual E36 328i with no TC and a Lexus IS200 manual, they’re the only cars I could get the back end out for a brief moment and have a bit of fun before I run out of talent/road. It’s fun in cars under 200 bhp that are sheds as it doesn’t matter if you bin it. That’s how I feel. I’d rather buy a RWD 328i over a AWD 328i (if they made one in RHD).
Now that’s my opinion and some people’s will differ but I don’t see how someone can truly make the most of an M3/4 with all that torque low down on public roads!
To moan/get upset about a 510 bhp twin turbo M3 going AWD is frankly ridiculous unless you’re a car journalist/regular track user and if you were the latter, you’d probably have a Lotus for track days.
I’m happy with the fact it’s now AWD and hopefully one day I’ll buy one and fully enjoy hitting the redline. I tested 2 M4’s and barely got to open either of them up because of the fact they’re RWD.
That's a load of nonsense, however I get the impression you're not that experienced with cars like this. There’s 2 RWD cars I have driven that I truly enjoyed them being RWD, a manual E36 328i with no TC and a Lexus IS200 manual, they’re the only cars I could get the back end out for a brief moment and have a bit of fun before I run out of talent/road. It’s fun in cars under 200 bhp that are sheds as it doesn’t matter if you bin it. That’s how I feel. I’d rather buy a RWD 328i over a AWD 328i (if they made one in RHD).
Now that’s my opinion and some people’s will differ but I don’t see how someone can truly make the most of an M3/4 with all that torque low down on public roads!
To moan/get upset about a 510 bhp twin turbo M3 going AWD is frankly ridiculous unless you’re a car journalist/regular track user and if you were the latter, you’d probably have a Lotus for track days.
I’m happy with the fact it’s now AWD and hopefully one day I’ll buy one and fully enjoy hitting the redline. I tested 2 M4’s and barely got to open either of them up because of the fact they’re RWD.
I enjoyed my F80 M3 CP. For 450hp it wasn't a psycho at all and you could exploit it pretty amazingly considering the torque available low down. On track in dry and wet it was pretty surefooted.
I did everything in its from the daily urban commute to NC500 to track days to Euro jaunts and it did all of them with aplomb.
In the end it was nicked, and in 15 months it lost just shy of £25k, fortunately covered by all the insurances, but I have a big soft spot for it and look forward to the new one.
Where as my Cerbera with a mere 350hp and less torque was challenging to apply full throttle below 70mph and more often than not broke into uncontrollable wheel spin. I hear the recent M4 was similar but I think AWD is a poor substitute for good design.
Niffty951 said:
Traction control you can't disable, 'sports' cars in automatic, FWD m-sport and 4wd M'cars.
It feels we're well on the way towards driver less cars now. The thin end of the wedge is getting thicker 'Ultimate Driving Machines' are becoming only a distant memory.
Meh, people have been saying that for many years. Maybe we should bring back to manual starter, maybe the manual-choke carburettor too.It feels we're well on the way towards driver less cars now. The thin end of the wedge is getting thicker 'Ultimate Driving Machines' are becoming only a distant memory.
essayer said:
Bladedancer said:
Why?
BMW is free to go and make a performance electric car, but what's wrong with M cars remaining petrol?
An all electric M car with independent motors on each wheel would be an absolute monster. It’d be better vs a petrol version on just about every metric except top speed. The characteristics of a drivetrain like that are far more interesting than what you get just adding more and more power. Looking forward to a manufacturer actually embracing this.BMW is free to go and make a performance electric car, but what's wrong with M cars remaining petrol?
I'm not claiming electric BMW would be bad/slow/whatever/etc but for some people, myself included, it's not all about the speed. I would miss the sound of the engine dearly. This is why I would prefer an M5 to a Tesla, despite P100D being faster.
I do think that in this all electric utopia that politicians want to sell to us, there will still be a place for a petrol powered performance cars.
Bladedancer said:
essayer said:
Bladedancer said:
Why?
BMW is free to go and make a performance electric car, but what's wrong with M cars remaining petrol?
An all electric M car with independent motors on each wheel would be an absolute monster. It’d be better vs a petrol version on just about every metric except top speed. The characteristics of a drivetrain like that are far more interesting than what you get just adding more and more power. Looking forward to a manufacturer actually embracing this.BMW is free to go and make a performance electric car, but what's wrong with M cars remaining petrol?
I'm not claiming electric BMW would be bad/slow/whatever/etc but for some people, myself included, it's not all about the speed. I would miss the sound of the engine dearly. This is why I would prefer an M5 to a Tesla, despite P100D being faster.
I do think that in this all electric utopia that politicians want to sell to us, there will still be a place for a petrol powered performance cars.
http://www.zeperfs.com/en/duel6576-7384.htm
TX.
Bladedancer said:
That doesn't answer my question though. Also, I'm not saying BMW shouldn't make an electric performance car.
I'm not claiming electric BMW would be bad/slow/whatever/etc but for some people, myself included, it's not all about the speed. I would miss the sound of the engine dearly. This is why I would prefer an M5 to a Tesla, despite P100D being faster.
I do think that in this all electric utopia that politicians want to sell to us, there will still be a place for a petrol powered performance cars.
It won’t be utopia for EV for long. The powers that be will start taxing them heavily and without doubt they’ll all be limited performance wise. I'm not claiming electric BMW would be bad/slow/whatever/etc but for some people, myself included, it's not all about the speed. I would miss the sound of the engine dearly. This is why I would prefer an M5 to a Tesla, despite P100D being faster.
I do think that in this all electric utopia that politicians want to sell to us, there will still be a place for a petrol powered performance cars.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff