RE: Why the Lotus Elise still matters | PH Footnote

RE: Why the Lotus Elise still matters | PH Footnote

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gofasterrosssco

1,238 posts

237 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Tickle said:
gofasterrosssco said:
otolith said:
Doesn't the VX need a few modifications in order to drive like an Elise?
Depends on which Elise..! With Lotus spec wheels, dampers and a different geo, not much in it..
What variant of VX was that spec on?
The very limited VXR had that spec IIRC, but I was referring more to mods on a standard NA or Turbo.

otolith

56,201 posts

205 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
gofasterrosssco said:
otolith said:
Doesn't the VX need a few modifications in order to drive like an Elise?
Depends on which Elise..! With Lotus spec wheels, dampers and a different geo, not much in it..
That's what I was thinking - and also possibly the ABS module.

gofasterrosssco

1,238 posts

237 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
otolith said:
gofasterrosssco said:
otolith said:
Doesn't the VX need a few modifications in order to drive like an Elise?
Depends on which Elise..! With Lotus spec wheels, dampers and a different geo, not much in it..
That's what I was thinking - and also possibly the ABS module.
Yep. The 111R / Exige S2 ABS module is a much sought after upgrade for VX's.

Just to be clear, its 'not a Lotus' but performs very similarly to Toyota Elises with the above changes.

RobM77

35,349 posts

235 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
gofasterrosssco said:
otolith said:
gofasterrosssco said:
otolith said:
Doesn't the VX need a few modifications in order to drive like an Elise?
Depends on which Elise..! With Lotus spec wheels, dampers and a different geo, not much in it..
That's what I was thinking - and also possibly the ABS module.
Yep. The 111R / Exige S2 ABS module is a much sought after upgrade for VX's.

Just to be clear, its 'not a Lotus' but performs very similarly to Toyota Elises with the above changes.
It's worth pointing out that although if you make the above changes you effectively have an Elise chassis with different clams, you do still have a 2.2L n/a or 2.0 turbo Vauxhall engine in the back with a different weight and different driving characteristics to the Elise's two engine choices.

Sporky

6,300 posts

65 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
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Does this make the Europa SE the best one?

This may prove an unpopular suggestion...

RobM77

35,349 posts

235 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Sporky said:
Does this make the Europa SE the best one?

This may prove an unpopular suggestion...
As in my reply above, I don't think there is a "best". They're all excellent cars and it depends on one's priorities.

otolith

56,201 posts

205 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
I guess I'd answer the question by asking myself what I'd be willing to swap mine for. I think really only a supercharged S2 or S3. I do like the unassisted brakes on the Rover cars, though I think ABS is worth having on a road car. I didn't think the Rover K-series was anything to write home about, though I haven't driven a VVC one.

SidewaysSi

10,742 posts

235 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
gofasterrosssco said:
SidewaysSi said:
gofasterrosssco said:
Mr E said:
Julian Thompson said:
Has any consensus been reached about which is the “best” Elise? Old or new?
Usually whichever the respondent owns.
So, clearly an early S2 111S with a short roof and no aircon. In black. smile
Exactly this. To me the 'best' Elise is the VX220.

But that's because it offers the Elise / Exige S2 driving experience, and best performance / £ ratio (now that I've added a SC kit). In turn meaning I don't feel guilty leaving it outside 365 as its half the price of an equivalent performance Exige, but wears a boring Vauxhall badge..
Nah no way...
Which bit?
As Rob said above, different engines etc. so not quite the same car. Know everyone thinks what they have is the best but I can categorically confirm my Sport 160 would be a right royal pain in the arse for most people...!

If it was "best value" Elise then maybe the VX would be in with a shout. But absolute "best" which I presume means from a driving PoV, I think not.

gofasterrosssco

1,238 posts

237 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
SidewaysSi said:
gofasterrosssco said:
SidewaysSi said:
gofasterrosssco said:
Mr E said:
Julian Thompson said:
Has any consensus been reached about which is the “best” Elise? Old or new?
Usually whichever the respondent owns.
So, clearly an early S2 111S with a short roof and no aircon. In black. smile
Exactly this. To me the 'best' Elise is the VX220.

But that's because it offers the Elise / Exige S2 driving experience, and best performance / £ ratio (now that I've added a SC kit). In turn meaning I don't feel guilty leaving it outside 365 as its half the price of an equivalent performance Exige, but wears a boring Vauxhall badge..
Nah no way...
Which bit?
As Rob said above, different engines etc. so not quite the same car. Know everyone thinks what they have is the best but I can categorically confirm my Sport 160 would be a right royal pain in the arse for most people...!

If it was "best value" Elise then maybe the VX would be in with a shout. But absolute "best" which I presume means from a driving PoV, I think not.
Yep, agree with that. Not saying the VX220 is the best handling / driving Elise variant, or they are the same car, simply just that it its the best performance / cost ratio for me (especially once you add the relatively cost effective SC swap and some Lotus bits. Then, its competitive with some of Toyota-engine Elise / Exiges).

Can't say I'm not envious of a Sport 160, but S1 is too raw for me as a partial daily!

thelostboy

4,570 posts

226 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Kubevoid said:
I never connected with my Elise 111R. The sketchy rearward balance felt like a builders four pound hammer in the wet. Zero mass up front, like an empty biscuit tin didn't help balance much either.

I wish Lotus would make something front engined, such as the Caterham 21 or a Ginetta G4. Something where you can throw it about, hang it's arse out and hold it there just for the fun of it.
You mean like an Lotus 7 then... believe that's still made by a few companies laugh

The Elise requires skill to drive at high speed, but as I alluded to in my post, that's what gives depth to the ownership experience - you can drive it for years and still learn something as a driver.

It depends where and how you drive your car. My partner's Abarth Spider (basically an MX5) is great fun at road speeds; I can slide it around easily. I know on track however it would offer little challenge after a few laps and I'd get bored.

Julian Thompson

2,548 posts

239 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Thanks for those opinions - still can’t make my mind up!

Tickle

4,924 posts

205 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Julian Thompson said:
Thanks for those opinions - still can’t make my mind up!
If you have your mind set on an Elise it's a niche choice, picking the right variant for what you would use it for is a niche within a niche!

Luckily there are plenty of models and upgrades to incorporate into a base car to make a your own bespoke spec.

As a side note, you should know the Elise better than anyone Julian!

LordGrover

33,549 posts

213 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Julian Thompson said:
Thanks for those opinions - still can’t make my mind up!
That's what we're here for.
You can decide precisely what you want. Then go out and buy the first car you see.

kambites

67,587 posts

222 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Since all of the suspension parts are interchangeable, you can make any Elise based car handle pretty much like any other Elise based car and few of the older cars are standard anymore anyway. Yes there's some difference in weight but they still all feel pretty similar... so it mostly just comes down to which engine, interior and styling you prefer.

For me, the K-series is king of the OEM engines - the VHPD is most entertaining, but overall I prefer the VVC for daily use. However, if I was buying again now I'd probably go for an early S2 with a Honda K20 conversion.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th August 17:13

andy_s

19,404 posts

260 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
LordGrover said:
That's what we're here for.
You can decide precisely what you want. Then go out and buy the first car you see.
biggrin

Julian Thompson

2,548 posts

239 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
LordGrover said:
Julian Thompson said:
Thanks for those opinions - still can’t make my mind up!
That's what we're here for.
You can decide precisely what you want. Then go out and buy the first car you see.
Heheh. So true!

Julian Thompson

2,548 posts

239 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Tickle said:
Julian Thompson said:
Thanks for those opinions - still can’t make my mind up!
If you have your mind set on an Elise it's a niche choice, picking the right variant for what you would use it for is a niche within a niche!

Luckily there are plenty of models and upgrades to incorporate into a base car to make a your own bespoke spec.

As a side note, you should know the Elise better than anyone Julian!
Haha yes - right name to get an Elise eh?

Kubevoid

192 posts

57 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Yes I would certainly consider a Caterham 7 over the rear engined feel of an elise. However I specifically listed the Caterham 21 and Ginetta for specific reasons. Both...

1. Look sexy as hell.
2. Keep you dry.
3. Have good aero, unlike a 7.
4. Have front to rear balance, unlike an elise.

If you like putting in a sensible tidy lap and love the elise feel, fine. Just not for me.

I have fully adjustable dampers, H&R anti rolls bars, you name it on mine. I can set it up any way I like. But none of this will change where the hundreds of kg sit.

bcr5784

7,118 posts

146 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
Kubevoid said:
Yes I would certainly consider a Caterham 7 over the rear engined feel of an elise. However I specifically listed the Caterham 21 and Ginetta for specific reasons. Both...

1. Look sexy as hell.
2. Keep you dry.
3. Have good aero, unlike a 7.
4. Have front to rear balance, unlike an elise.

If you like putting in a sensible tidy lap and love the elise feel, fine. Just not for me.

I have fully adjustable dampers, H&R anti rolls bars, you name it on mine. I can set it up any way I like. But none of this will change where the hundreds of kg sit.

I hope you are interested in driving and therefore can forget the sexy as hell bit.

The G27 and C21 weren't commercially successful for a reason - and you'll find them vanishing thin on the ground The Elise was, taken all round, a much better car than either. If you really want a less rear biased weight distribution you are really only looking at a Caterham and will have to suffer the privations that come with them. A Caterham makes financial sense, expensive as they are to buy - they hardly depreciate (unllike the many clones) - and there are lots of options to choose from, For me on the right day on the right road a Caterham trumps older Elises - but then on similar days an Elise - especially a more recent one - would be preferable to anything else I have driven (including my Alpine).

These days - where I live - those days are rare. That wasn't the case 20 years ago.

Julian Thompson

2,548 posts

239 months

Wednesday 14th August 2019
quotequote all
kambites said:
Since all of the suspension parts are interchangeable, you can make any Elise based car handle pretty much like any other Elise based car and few of the older cars are standard anymore anyway. Yes there's some difference in weight but they still all feel pretty similar... so it mostly just comes down to which engine, interior and styling you prefer.

For me, the K-series is king of the OEM engines - the VHPD is most entertaining, but overall I prefer the VVC for daily use. However, if I was buying again now I'd probably go for an early S2 with a Honda K20 conversion.

Edited by kambites on Wednesday 14th August 17:13
Yes I know a fair bit about the K series from my Superlight R days.

What makes you say you’d prefer the Honda motor? Surely that’s a right heavy lump compared?