RE: Why the Lotus Elise still matters | PH Footnote
Discussion
Baldchap said:
je777 said:
Brilliant in every way, as long as you can order one without flags painted on the rear wing.
You can. The dealer swapped ours for a nice carbon one without stickers FOC. 
Composite Guru said:
Baldchap said:
je777 said:
Brilliant in every way, as long as you can order one without flags painted on the rear wing.
You can. The dealer swapped ours for a nice carbon one without stickers FOC. Baldchap said:
Composite Guru said:
Baldchap said:
je777 said:
Brilliant in every way, as long as you can order one without flags painted on the rear wing.
You can. The dealer swapped ours for a nice carbon one without stickers FOC. VX220 owner for 9 years so not quite the same but more similar than different.
These are a marmite car, you either love them or don't. Yes they're cramped, yes they're basic but that's not what's important here. If you are a portly 6ft+ kinda person they probably aren't a daily drive for you.
The chassis is brilliant at what it does and shouldn't be compared to modern soft cars. They don't tend to evoke the same reactions as your high value look at me cars. They are about driving and the car does that so well. They're analogue. They're full of feedback. If you enjoy driving (real driving, not point and squirt) then they are a joy. People will try and race you from traffic lights in their launch control golf R's with DSG and I just let them. That isn't what the cars are about. Yes the 0-60 isn't that fast but the light weight nature means they handle very differently to the modern electronically aided cars. And 4-5s 0-60 is still plenty quick. They're not a pub bragging rights car and shouldn't be treated that way.
These are a marmite car, you either love them or don't. Yes they're cramped, yes they're basic but that's not what's important here. If you are a portly 6ft+ kinda person they probably aren't a daily drive for you.
The chassis is brilliant at what it does and shouldn't be compared to modern soft cars. They don't tend to evoke the same reactions as your high value look at me cars. They are about driving and the car does that so well. They're analogue. They're full of feedback. If you enjoy driving (real driving, not point and squirt) then they are a joy. People will try and race you from traffic lights in their launch control golf R's with DSG and I just let them. That isn't what the cars are about. Yes the 0-60 isn't that fast but the light weight nature means they handle very differently to the modern electronically aided cars. And 4-5s 0-60 is still plenty quick. They're not a pub bragging rights car and shouldn't be treated that way.
- If* they get under your skin, they are a great car. Just depends if they're for you or not.
Edited by Sford on Wednesday 7th August 15:46
bcr5784 said:
Unless it has to be an open car or manual the Alpine is the most obvious candidate. Much more sensible as a daily than either and much more sophisticated than the MX5. I'm not going to say it's quite as much fun down your favourite B road as the Elise but.you really ought to at least try the Alpine, it really is very seductive..
Sadly, the lack of a manual is non-negotiable for me. I really enjoy the footwork of driving too much. The drop-top doesn't bother me much but it's a 'nice to have'. Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 7th August 13:59
My 2 criteria were pretty much no autos and no turbochargers - so I guess that crosses off pretty much every car in the market haha. If I didn't do 10-15k miles a year, the elise would be ideal.
I've owned a huge variety of cars over the years: FWD, RWD, 4WD, weights from 500kg up to 1500kg, engines in the front, middle, and back. I've also raced everything from front drive hatches to slicks and wings single seaters. After all that, I still rate the Elise as the best driver's car I've ever driven. I owned mine for 8 years, longer than I've owned any other car, and it was my daily driver for 3 years. I genuinely loved every mile.
john41901 said:
Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious ....
Yep if you want to pretend to be a 'proper' enthusiast on here there are only two car options you can have, this and a Caterham. Utter nonsense of course spouted by clueless idiots.
I can't quite get over the amusing irony of quoting a phrase coined only to describe 1960s and 70s Lotuses in response to an article on a modern Lotus, and then calling other people clueless idiots! Lotuses have had Toyota engines for well over a decade now, the aluminium chassis doesn't rust, and electrical problems are rare..... Yep if you want to pretend to be a 'proper' enthusiast on here there are only two car options you can have, this and a Caterham. Utter nonsense of course spouted by clueless idiots.
Furthermore, anyone who likes driving and overlooks Caterhams and Elises is sorely missing out. It's not nonsense at all - those two cars are, in my humble opinion at least, the pinnacle of pure driving enjoyment for road cars. For sure, practicality stands in the way of most of us; in the past I've owned 2 Caterhams, an Elise, and a 2-Eleven, but family and work commitments now mean that my garage is devoid of anything lightweight. That doesn't change my opinion though, unlike you I'm not going to defend what I own and criticise what I don't - an Elise is the pinnacle of driving pleasure for what most people relish and enjoy about driving cars.
twinturban said:
The sills everyone moans about are what makes the Elise unusually safe for a small car in a side impact. Name one car with stronger doors. Caterhams are glorious drivers cars but built to 1950's safety standards.
So thanks to you lot Lotus will lose the sills, make it bigger, fit EPAS, fit a larger engine to lug around the extra weight, give it conservative unisex styling, fit cheaper strut suspension (no-one will know or care) next thing you know you have a Cayman without the badge, built in Norfolk.
I've never quite understood this, unless people are enormously fat?! My 2004 Elise was a daily driver, and I hopped in and out carrying my work bag, CDs, drinks etc in one or even both hands - no problems at all.So thanks to you lot Lotus will lose the sills, make it bigger, fit EPAS, fit a larger engine to lug around the extra weight, give it conservative unisex styling, fit cheaper strut suspension (no-one will know or care) next thing you know you have a Cayman without the badge, built in Norfolk.
Lotus were selling 2000+ units annually in the US.
But then they chose not, or could not afford, to add "intelligent" airbags. Or to address the uprated regulation for stability control. Then the federalised (US emissions spec) Toyota engine used by Lotus in that market was discontinued by its OEM.
In 2011 the Elise was withdrawn from the market.
twinturban said:
So thanks to you lot Lotus will lose the sills, make it bigger, fit EPAS, fit a larger engine to lug around the extra weight, give it conservative unisex styling, fit cheaper strut suspension (no-one will know or care) next thing you know you have a Cayman without the badge, built in Norfolk.
Perhaps you've been asleep for the last 10 years and haven't noticed the Evora. Mind you, few people have.RobM77 said:
john41901 said:
Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious ....
Yep if you want to pretend to be a 'proper' enthusiast on here there are only two car options you can have, this and a Caterham. Utter nonsense of course spouted by clueless idiots.
I can't quite get over the amusing irony of quoting a phrase coined only to describe 1960s and 70s Lotuses in response to an article on a modern Lotus, and then calling other people clueless idiots! Lotuses have had Toyota engines for well over a decade now, the aluminium chassis doesn't rust, and electrical problems are rare..... Yep if you want to pretend to be a 'proper' enthusiast on here there are only two car options you can have, this and a Caterham. Utter nonsense of course spouted by clueless idiots.
Furthermore, anyone who likes driving and overlooks Caterhams and Elises is sorely missing out. It's not nonsense at all - those two cars are, in my humble opinion at least, the pinnacle of pure driving enjoyment for road cars. For sure, practicality stands in the way of most of us; in the past I've owned 2 Caterhams, an Elise, and a 2-Eleven, but family and work commitments now mean that my garage is devoid of anything lightweight. That doesn't change my opinion though, unlike you I'm not going to defend what I own and criticise what I don't - an Elise is the pinnacle of driving pleasure for what most people relish and enjoy about driving cars.
What makes me laugh is the average drivers car is classed as some bloated german saloon with a massive/overpowered engine nowadays.
Poor choice imo. I wouldn't waste my time with one as a drivers car.
Edited by Composite Guru on Wednesday 7th August 16:12
Composite Guru said:
RobM77 said:
john41901 said:
Lots Of Trouble Usually Serious ....
Yep if you want to pretend to be a 'proper' enthusiast on here there are only two car options you can have, this and a Caterham. Utter nonsense of course spouted by clueless idiots.
I can't quite get over the amusing irony of quoting a phrase coined only to describe 1960s and 70s Lotuses in response to an article on a modern Lotus, and then calling other people clueless idiots! Lotuses have had Toyota engines for well over a decade now, the aluminium chassis doesn't rust, and electrical problems are rare..... Yep if you want to pretend to be a 'proper' enthusiast on here there are only two car options you can have, this and a Caterham. Utter nonsense of course spouted by clueless idiots.
Furthermore, anyone who likes driving and overlooks Caterhams and Elises is sorely missing out. It's not nonsense at all - those two cars are, in my humble opinion at least, the pinnacle of pure driving enjoyment for road cars. For sure, practicality stands in the way of most of us; in the past I've owned 2 Caterhams, an Elise, and a 2-Eleven, but family and work commitments now mean that my garage is devoid of anything lightweight. That doesn't change my opinion though, unlike you I'm not going to defend what I own and criticise what I don't - an Elise is the pinnacle of driving pleasure for what most people relish and enjoy about driving cars.
What makes me laugh is the average drivers car is classed as some bloated german saloon with a massive/overpowered engine nowadays.
Poor choice imo. I wouldn't waste my time with one as a drivers car.
Edited by Composite Guru on Wednesday 7th August 16:12
twinturban said:
So thanks to you lot Lotus will lose the sills, make it bigger, fit EPAS, fit a larger engine to lug around the extra weight, give it conservative unisex styling, fit cheaper strut suspension (no-one will know or care) next thing you know you have a Cayman without the badge, built in Norfolk.
Well you may not agree with some of the engineering decisions Alpine have made but they have demonstrated that you don't need to follow the herd and can still sell a lot of cars. Lotus need to maintain a unique identity rather than try to do a better Porsche, or, for that matter a better Alpine.I couldn't live without mine in my life (2017 250 SE).
It's hardly old-fashioned or even old. It's monumentally and addictively different to all the sanitised newer stuff and has evolved into a new evolutionary branch that sadly probably will be a dead-end. But what a way to go out...
It's hardly old-fashioned or even old. It's monumentally and addictively different to all the sanitised newer stuff and has evolved into a new evolutionary branch that sadly probably will be a dead-end. But what a way to go out...
BillyB said:
If only they made one that fit me 
I think that Lotus enthusiasts need to recognise that if the brand is to survive they need to appeal to a broader audience. I personally have no access problem with an Elise or a Caterham and I have dailied both (and motorbikes) - but I realise that not everyone will..And, as I approach my dotage, I'm less prepared to put up with the privations of an Elise on a daily basis - and my OH (SWMBO) wouldn't put up with the privations at all.which is a significant consideration.I've never owned an Elise but I've had a vx220 Turbo for 5+ years and can't bring myself to sell it even though it's inconvenient for almost any use. Nothing comes close to non-assisted steering and low weight.
They are still a bargain but the torque, turbo and extra 100kg? probably make it a completely different dynamic to the Elise!
They are still a bargain but the torque, turbo and extra 100kg? probably make it a completely different dynamic to the Elise!
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