RE: 400hp BMW M140e hybrid due next year
Discussion
evo2073 said:
Hybrids are pointless. The added power by the battery negating the extra weight.
I realise that the ICE is on its way out, ultimately, but these hybrid solutions are just bridging the gap while bringing no real world benefits.
And they are seriously trying to ape the A35 and A45 here. Let this die, please
I don’t disagree about hybrids bridging the gap between ICE and full electric, if that’s what you mean?I realise that the ICE is on its way out, ultimately, but these hybrid solutions are just bridging the gap while bringing no real world benefits.
And they are seriously trying to ape the A35 and A45 here. Let this die, please
However my experience with the latest Prius suggests there are lots of real world benefits. Ignoring the fact that it was smooth, quiet and stress free to drive, I averaged 68mpg of purely urban driving. I think that’s astounding for a D segment family car.
Even if the car mostly drives on electricity, isn’t half of the electricity still generated by fossil fuels and once you add battery resources / battery recycling, don’t see how this is any better than a lighter car that runs on petrol ...
Edit: and as soon as you hit the Autobahn you’ll definitely burn petrol (and probably more of it)
Edit: and as soon as you hit the Autobahn you’ll definitely burn petrol (and probably more of it)
Edited by MDL111 on Friday 9th August 18:20
lukeyman said:
unsprung said:
"Say you have 40 kWh of cells. Do you put them into one EV and leave 39 other cars as pure internal-combustion, or do you make 40 hybrids which have roughly 1 kWh of battery each?"
https://www.topgear.com/car-news/paris-motor-show/...
Interesting perspective.https://www.topgear.com/car-news/paris-motor-show/...
Their logic's not wrong is it. If you want many, if not most, daily trips to be powered by electric motors (and not by ICE), and if you want this to be widespread and to happen essentially "tomorrow", then a hybrid fits the brief. The required increase in cost is more affordable. And no range anxiety.
MDL111 said:
isn’t half of the electricity still generated by fossil fuels
Yes but 50% at the ~70% efficiency of a gas power station (maybe 50% once grid and charging losses are taken into account) is quite a lot better than the 100% at the about 15% efficiency you'd get out of a normal petrol of this power.Also power consumption from fossil fuels is falling so whilst an EV you buy now might only halve the emissions of an ICE now, those emissions will fall over the car's lifetime where an ICE car's emissions would stay constant at best.
The argument that the life-cycle emissions of an ICE can get anywhere near an EV with the UK's energy mix was lost long ago.
Edited by kambites on Friday 9th August 19:11
Chestrockwell said:
I drove a friends mapped M140i last night and my god what a car, a sledge hammer, a hot rod hot hatch, It’s the last of its kind and I’ve been thinking about selling the Civic and buying one ever since I drove it.
This new one will be quicker, more economical etc but nowhere near as fun or brutal as this.
I preferred the slower, but much more characterful 130. I’m sure the hybrid will be very clever but it does little for me. This new one will be quicker, more economical etc but nowhere near as fun or brutal as this.
kambites said:
MDL111 said:
isn’t half of the electricity still generated by fossil fuels
Yes but 50% at the ~70% efficiency of a gas power station (maybe 50% once grid and charging losses are taken into account) is quite a lot better than the 100% at the about 15% efficiency you'd get out of a normal petrol of this power.Also power consumption from fossil fuels is falling so whilst an EV you buy now might only halve the emissions of an ICE now, those emissions will fall over the car's lifetime where an ICE cara emissions would stay constant at best.
Edited by kambites on Friday 9th August 19:09
GTiWILL said:
evo2073 said:
Hybrids are pointless. The added power by the battery negating the extra weight.
I realise that the ICE is on its way out, ultimately, but these hybrid solutions are just bridging the gap while bringing no real world benefits.
And they are seriously trying to ape the A35 and A45 here. Let this die, please
I don’t disagree about hybrids bridging the gap between ICE and full electric, if that’s what you mean?I realise that the ICE is on its way out, ultimately, but these hybrid solutions are just bridging the gap while bringing no real world benefits.
And they are seriously trying to ape the A35 and A45 here. Let this die, please
However my experience with the latest Prius suggests there are lots of real world benefits. Ignoring the fact that it was smooth, quiet and stress free to drive, I averaged 68mpg of purely urban driving. I think that’s astounding for a D segment family car.
Driven both a range rover sport P400e and the new hst with the straight 6. The PHEV (at least when it has a charge) is much punchier doing the normal overtake sprint 40-70 kind of thing. Averaged 27mpg over the weekend with the P6 and similar driving with a P400e got 37mpg but I have not factored in the couple of quid to plug it in. Both was with lots of motorway driving which obviously negatively impacted the PHEV.
Jaroon said:
Looks aside, this makes sense to me, for me. I'm actually saving for an R8 V10 but enjoying the summer in an old 135i M Sport convertible with a remap. It's a hoot, never seen more than 15mpg. I'm moving a little further from work, 7/8 mileish commute and a driveway for a change. I'm either stop/start driving to work or hooning and the irrelevant fuel costs of my previous commute now become relevant so, in concept at least, this solution bares thinking about, all be it in a different package.
How on earth did you manage to achieve such low mpg, did you steal your own car each day?! My lifetime average is well over double that in my m140 and once topped 50mpg on a commute.As for this car it's an amorphous blob, it could be anything from a Kia/Hyundai/Mercedes/Ford but with a nasty ass grille. Not trading mine in any time soon.
I'm guessing this will grow on me in time as many BMWs do but that grille is absolutely ridiculous.
As the engine has hopefully its USP hopefully it is a better steer than the last one, which shouldn't be hard.
I'd imagine that a couple of years after launch people will love this car much as hat seemed to happen with the original and previous 1series.
As the engine has hopefully its USP hopefully it is a better steer than the last one, which shouldn't be hard.
I'd imagine that a couple of years after launch people will love this car much as hat seemed to happen with the original and previous 1series.
Jaroon said:
Looks aside, this makes sense to me, for me. I'm actually saving for an R8 V10 but enjoying the summer in an old 135i M Sport convertible with a remap. It's a hoot, never seen more than 15mpg. I'm moving a little further from work, 7/8 mileish commute and a driveway for a change. I'm either stop/start driving to work or hooning and the irrelevant fuel costs of my previous commute now become relevant so, in concept at least, this solution bares thinking about, all be it in a different package.
Am I reading this right?A 7/8 mile commute makes fuel costs relevant.
Wtf
MikeGoodwin said:
What huge shame
But then this is the car industry all over isnt it.
Wonder if in another 20 years we will see interesting cars again or will they all be electric 4wd auto driving, fly by wire braking and steering systems.
I think way sooner than that, I'd say in the next few years. This decade has just been a rehash of the 90's from films to music to the generic blobs on the road. Just like cars got edgier in design in the 2000's, I think when the next decade ends up being a 2000's rehash we'll see cars get better. My theory anyway. But then this is the car industry all over isnt it.
Wonder if in another 20 years we will see interesting cars again or will they all be electric 4wd auto driving, fly by wire braking and steering systems.
A few comments on the banter so far. CarWow tested the new 135i against the outgoing 140i, and the 140i destroyed the 135i performance-wise. I know the subject of the article is the incoming 140e, but I can't help but feel this is the one BMW of recent years that's going to take a while to gel with brand fans.
I was talking to a fleet manager last night, and he has just bought a load of Skoda Octavia's despite his senior's insistence to 'go green'. His successful counterargument was that hybrids are only good in the city, but doing 25000+ miles per year they're useless. He himself ran a 530e for a short while, couldn't plug it in at home, so ran it on petrol. It was very juicy, and he wished he could have had a 530i but paid BIK on a 530e.
Lastly, as a BMW F20 driver, I think this new 1 series is probably a fine car; if I were replacing my current example with a new car, I'm not sure I would choose one though. I'd probably choose a used 330e. The cheapest one is £12k on Autotrader, and given my 24 mile commute, and my ability to plug it in, I think it would fit the bill nicely.
I was talking to a fleet manager last night, and he has just bought a load of Skoda Octavia's despite his senior's insistence to 'go green'. His successful counterargument was that hybrids are only good in the city, but doing 25000+ miles per year they're useless. He himself ran a 530e for a short while, couldn't plug it in at home, so ran it on petrol. It was very juicy, and he wished he could have had a 530i but paid BIK on a 530e.
Lastly, as a BMW F20 driver, I think this new 1 series is probably a fine car; if I were replacing my current example with a new car, I'm not sure I would choose one though. I'd probably choose a used 330e. The cheapest one is £12k on Autotrader, and given my 24 mile commute, and my ability to plug it in, I think it would fit the bill nicely.
yonex said:
Chestrockwell said:
I drove a friends mapped M140i last night and my god what a car, a sledge hammer, a hot rod hot hatch, It’s the last of its kind and I’ve been thinking about selling the Civic and buying one ever since I drove it.
This new one will be quicker, more economical etc but nowhere near as fun or brutal as this.
I preferred the slower, but much more characterful 130. I’m sure the hybrid will be very clever but it does little for me. This new one will be quicker, more economical etc but nowhere near as fun or brutal as this.
My Honda isn’t very loud and there’s a lot of exhausts and downpipes for sale, it’s a big market but I just don’t see the point in trying to make a 4 cylinder engine sound good. It just makes it louder. The M140i I drove yesterday however, wow!
The point is, I finally understand the PH uproar whenever a new car is announced, it’s a damn shame but times change and this is the future!
Lose the graphics and I think it looks pretty good as hot hatches go. Perhaps a little high riding, but I’ll reserve judgment until I’ve seen one.
As for the PHEV side of things, I don’t pretend to be a world authority, but surely it’s only got 400hp until the battery is depleted, which if you’re using the full beans, won’t take long. Electrically driven cars are undoubtedly the future, but I’m yet to be convinced that batteries are the correct energy source.
In the meantime I don’t suppose it matters so long as this is a nice car, which it undoubtedly will be.
As for the PHEV side of things, I don’t pretend to be a world authority, but surely it’s only got 400hp until the battery is depleted, which if you’re using the full beans, won’t take long. Electrically driven cars are undoubtedly the future, but I’m yet to be convinced that batteries are the correct energy source.
In the meantime I don’t suppose it matters so long as this is a nice car, which it undoubtedly will be.
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