RE: 400hp BMW M140e hybrid due next year
Discussion
roadsweeper said:
Putting aside that (to me at least) this is an ugly thing, it's actually a really interesting car for some use-cases.
I currently own a Golf GTE (30 miles electric range) which I purchased in preference to a 'sporty' 1-series because Mon-Fri I tend to only drive the three miles to the train station and back. I hated the inefficiency of that from a petrol-powered perspective and the wear on the engine which wouldn't even get warm by the time my journey was over (also precluding me from really putting my foot down). A pure electric car was out because of the occasional long trips I undertake for business which don't give me practical recharging options.
The Golf GTE is cheap to run - I put petrol in it every couple of months, despite using it most days - and I can put my foot down as much as I want in those three miles, enojoying that it's quite sprightly at low speeds. As our household buys only electricity from renewable sources, I don't have the 'simply shifting the emissions' issue, though I would agree with earlier posts that shifting them to power plants is likely preferable anyway. Quite apart from that, I also avoid emitting fumes in urban areas and city centres; anyone who has walked around in London or Manchester will appreciate the value of that from a public health perspective.
Given the above, and that the Golf GTE is really a warm hatch at best, if I can get past the styling this could be a great fit for me (and I suspect many others).
I concur. Hybrids have never been on my radar but as I mentioned earlier new circumstances get me looking at new options. If it could be genuinely exciting I would look at this proposition. I'm no purest anyway, I enjoy peformance and a car that is better than me, I know and understand others like a car they can push the envelop in at legal speeds but I'll take as much acceleration, deceleration and lateral grip as I can get ideally with a sound track but hey ho. I'm an electric sceptic, can't see how they will ever be a complete solution but more of a right tool for the right job vehicle. Hybrids may well be a complete solution imo. They really have only just come to my notice as something I might consider so will start to look at them from a new perspective ie ownership. I know we're told everything will be electric by 20XX or whenever but coming from the railway these notional dates, claims and ideas tend to become victims mission creep as due dates approach.I currently own a Golf GTE (30 miles electric range) which I purchased in preference to a 'sporty' 1-series because Mon-Fri I tend to only drive the three miles to the train station and back. I hated the inefficiency of that from a petrol-powered perspective and the wear on the engine which wouldn't even get warm by the time my journey was over (also precluding me from really putting my foot down). A pure electric car was out because of the occasional long trips I undertake for business which don't give me practical recharging options.
The Golf GTE is cheap to run - I put petrol in it every couple of months, despite using it most days - and I can put my foot down as much as I want in those three miles, enojoying that it's quite sprightly at low speeds. As our household buys only electricity from renewable sources, I don't have the 'simply shifting the emissions' issue, though I would agree with earlier posts that shifting them to power plants is likely preferable anyway. Quite apart from that, I also avoid emitting fumes in urban areas and city centres; anyone who has walked around in London or Manchester will appreciate the value of that from a public health perspective.
Given the above, and that the Golf GTE is really a warm hatch at best, if I can get past the styling this could be a great fit for me (and I suspect many others).
I think calling this a hot hatchback is rather last century as those were cheap, light and highly chuckable.
It is actually a compact super GT sporting hatch, or perhaps even another new niche the germans can invent from the quantum foam that surrounds their marketing departments.
A car that weighs too much but weighs a lot less than something bigger from the same manufacturer and punches above it's (hefty) weight.
It is actually a compact super GT sporting hatch, or perhaps even another new niche the germans can invent from the quantum foam that surrounds their marketing departments.
A car that weighs too much but weighs a lot less than something bigger from the same manufacturer and punches above it's (hefty) weight.
For the doubters among us:
If you find yourself thinking things like...
For example:
Some hybrids allow you to plug them in. Others don’t. In either case, the petrol engine can supply electricity to the battery.
When you apply the brakes, this can supply electricity to the battery -- thus recovering some energy that would otherwise be lost.
The battery can’t cover the distance of all possible trips. But for most people on most days, the battery can cover, say, 25 to 75 miles of driving. Your commute. The weekly shopping.
Depending upon the vehicle and your settings, the battery may power the car much of the time or only at lower speeds. The battery and the ICE may also work in tandem. This all happens automatically.
Unlike a full-on BEV, there’s almost nothing different about a hybrid in terms of the keeper’s duties. You fill it with petrol just like any other car. You drive it just like any other car.
The battery is meant to be an agent of efficiency. And, in some cases, a source of incremental torque. Most hybrids are not intended for the track. If they’re taken to a track, everybody understands that electric-only driving is of limited use.
The preceding does not cover all engineering and all use cases of all hybrid vehicles. It’s merely an example of common experiences.
If you find yourself thinking things like...
- “This car is too complex”
- “The battery is too small to be useful”
For example:
Some hybrids allow you to plug them in. Others don’t. In either case, the petrol engine can supply electricity to the battery.
When you apply the brakes, this can supply electricity to the battery -- thus recovering some energy that would otherwise be lost.
The battery can’t cover the distance of all possible trips. But for most people on most days, the battery can cover, say, 25 to 75 miles of driving. Your commute. The weekly shopping.
Depending upon the vehicle and your settings, the battery may power the car much of the time or only at lower speeds. The battery and the ICE may also work in tandem. This all happens automatically.
Unlike a full-on BEV, there’s almost nothing different about a hybrid in terms of the keeper’s duties. You fill it with petrol just like any other car. You drive it just like any other car.
The battery is meant to be an agent of efficiency. And, in some cases, a source of incremental torque. Most hybrids are not intended for the track. If they’re taken to a track, everybody understands that electric-only driving is of limited use.
The preceding does not cover all engineering and all use cases of all hybrid vehicles. It’s merely an example of common experiences.
Gandahar said:
I think calling this a hot hatchback is rather last century as those were cheap, light and highly chuckable.
It is actually a compact super GT sporting hatch, or perhaps even another new niche the germans can invent from the quantum foam that surrounds their marketing departments.
A car that weighs too much but weighs a lot less than something bigger from the same manufacturer and punches above it's (hefty) weight.
I don't think the Germans care much about PH's perception of what should or should not be a "hot hatch" - actually I am pretty sure their marketing dpt don't even need to call it a hot hatch or pigeon hole it into a niche.It is actually a compact super GT sporting hatch, or perhaps even another new niche the germans can invent from the quantum foam that surrounds their marketing departments.
A car that weighs too much but weighs a lot less than something bigger from the same manufacturer and punches above it's (hefty) weight.
As for weight, I am sure lighter cars are available, so what's the issue ?
te. Something seems to have gone badly amiss at BMW these days. They're clearly struggling to catch up in the electric race, despite the initial promising beginnings with the i3 and i8, and their Mini-E concept a decade ago. Their stock price has halved from its 2015 high, their CEO Krüger has resigned amidst falling profits (17% down in 2018 from the previous year, nearly 80% (!) down in Q1 this year, 30% down in Q2), talk of €12bn cost saving plans and all the rest of it.
Heck, people in India are so disappointed to get new BMWs instead of Jaguars that they push them into rivers: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/...
Given how they all look these days, I can sympathise. They used to make very elegant cars but modern BMWs are just unfathomably ugly. They're so overdesigned and fussy, yet somehow generic and (apart from all the stupid aggressive fake vents and slashes) pretty unremarkable. The proportions are odd, the grilles are comic to the point of caricature and they nearly all have odd tacked-on, high clamshell bonnet lines that make the whole design fail to have any flow.
I can't help but feel that a good chunk of their problem would be fixed by sorting out their design department. Their target market isn't people who are shopping for Civic Type-Rs.
Heck, people in India are so disappointed to get new BMWs instead of Jaguars that they push them into rivers: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/...
Given how they all look these days, I can sympathise. They used to make very elegant cars but modern BMWs are just unfathomably ugly. They're so overdesigned and fussy, yet somehow generic and (apart from all the stupid aggressive fake vents and slashes) pretty unremarkable. The proportions are odd, the grilles are comic to the point of caricature and they nearly all have odd tacked-on, high clamshell bonnet lines that make the whole design fail to have any flow.
I can't help but feel that a good chunk of their problem would be fixed by sorting out their design department. Their target market isn't people who are shopping for Civic Type-Rs.
Edited by herebebeasties on Monday 12th August 08:50
Mike1990 said:
Wasn’t the Golf Mk7 GTE the first hybrid ‘hot’-hatch ?
Probably.But it is more a warm hatch - think GOLF GT Hybrid than Golf GTI Hybrid.
Only benefit seems to be the electric only range, as all the magazine tests throw out MPG no better than the 1.4TSI in my Leon if not worse, which is the same engine without the hybrid gubbins - the benefit of not having to lug around two propulsion systems.
herebebeasties said:
They used to make very elegant cars but modern BMWs are just unfathomably ugly.
Are they? Do you mean objectively? I think they look great compared to old BMW's., so I am wondering if it's not a subjective thing, you never know 
Edited by nickfrog on Monday 12th August 10:29
nickfrog said:
herebebeasties said:
They used to make very elegant cars but modern BMWs are just unfathomably ugly.
Are they? Do you mean objectively? I think they look great compared to old BMW's., so I am wondering if it's not a subjective thing, you never know Edited by nickfrog on Monday 12th August 10:29
We can all say looks are subjective, but only to a point. Some guys like girls with massive arses, and that's fine, but no one thinks Susan Boyle is attractive.
Modern BMWs are that Susan Boyle.
kambites said:
evo2073 said:
Hybrids are pointless. The added power by the battery negating the extra weight.
I realise that the ICE is on its way out, ultimately, but these hybrid solutions are just bridging the gap while bringing no real world benefits.
I don't think that's really true of plus-ins. Looking at our family car use-case, the huge majority of our trips are less than 40 miles so if this has a 40 mile real-world plug-in range that would mean we only ended up using any petrol when either we wanted to do longer trips or we wanted the extra performance. I suspect of the ~6k miles a year our family car does, about 5500 would end up being done purely on electricity so even if the economy is worse on the remaining 500 miles than a current 140i, we'd still average well over 100mpg from it. I realise that the ICE is on its way out, ultimately, but these hybrid solutions are just bridging the gap while bringing no real world benefits.
So no, it's not going to be faster than a pure ICE would be but that's not really the point. It's going to be a damned slight more economical without significantly sacrificing performance. In practice we don't need the performance we'll probably end up going for a cheaper, more practical EV (something like a Kia eNiro) but for someone who wants a hot hatch for a highish mileage, I think this could make a lot of sense.
Edited by kambites on Friday 9th August 15:08
TX.
BFleming said:
Terminator X said:
Doesn't fuel go off after a while so potentially no good if you ran on electric for weeks on end then tried to use the fuel?
Petrol goes bad after years, so cars that have been in deep storage generally need a new fuel tank & lines etc. But not after a few weeks.People with LPG conversions have been doing this for years. I think my wife fills up with petrol once, maybe twice a year.
Terminator X said:
Let's just say you did that but with fuel left in the car. Doesn't fuel go off after a while so potentially no good if you ran on electric for weeks on end then tried to use the fuel?
TX.
Let's take a step away from the details for a brief moment.TX.
Millions of hybrid vehicles have been sold and continue to be in use.
If the engineering that underpins these vehicles would be poorly conceived, where would this be most likely to be discovered... On the road? Or here on PistonHeads?
Terminator X said:
Let's just say you did that but with fuel left in the car. Doesn't fuel go off after a while so potentially no good if you ran on electric for weeks on end then tried to use the fuel?
TX.
Chris Harris said that 99ron goes off after a while on the One Show but he didn't go any further on the technical details.TX.
I have a Rex i3s and have petrol sat in the tank for weeks on end and it's absolutely fine. It does a self flush once a month but just to keep the engine going. The manual says nothing about draining the tank regularly.
nickfrog said:
herebebeasties said:
They used to make very elegant cars but modern BMWs are just unfathomably ugly.
Are they? Do you mean objectively? I think they look great compared to old BMW's., so I am wondering if it's not a subjective thing, you never know https://xoyondo.com/ap/qXMYMARg3cD4Sy2
Edited by herebebeasties on Monday 12th August 22:21
herebebeasties said:
nickfrog said:
herebebeasties said:
They used to make very elegant cars but modern BMWs are just unfathomably ugly.
Are they? Do you mean objectively? I think they look great compared to old BMW's., so I am wondering if it's not a subjective thing, you never know https://xoyondo.com/ap/qXMYMARg3cD4Sy2
Edited by herebebeasties on Monday 12th August 22:10
Besides, it's also entirely conceivable that some buy BMWs for the way they drive, you never know.
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