RE: BMW M6 (E63) | The Brave Pill
Discussion
rare6499 said:
I believe Bangle oversaw the E46 which is generally regarded as one of the best looking BMW’s of all time...
He did the facelift E46, which ruined its looks. Ever wondered why they didn't bother facelifting the M3? Nuff said. You count me in as a BMW fan who hates Chris Bangle. These M6's seem to be a good bet as long as you get the rod bearings replaced, not sure what other problems would lurk in it costing big bills if it went wrong. Transmission like the E60 M5s?
I think this was Jeremy Clarkson's favourite back in November 2005 at a very wet Isle of Man! saying "How can I not have that power in my life"!
Shootout: Performance sports coupes (Aston Martin V8 Vantage • BMW M6 • Porsche 911 Carrera S) on the Isle of Man.
The Top Gear presenters travel back to the Isle of Man to compare the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, the BMW M6, and the Porsche 911 Carrera S.
Shootout: Performance sports coupes (Aston Martin V8 Vantage • BMW M6 • Porsche 911 Carrera S) on the Isle of Man.
The Top Gear presenters travel back to the Isle of Man to compare the Aston Martin V8 Vantage, the BMW M6, and the Porsche 911 Carrera S.
Wow, how times have changed.
A number of years ago I was harassed, harangued and called a liar (ON PH) as I dared to question the reliability of this car and the related BMW M5 of the same era. My point was if driven in anger these cars tended to fail big time, even with low miles on the clock. At the time I had friends who had M6's and M5's and all of them had major issues. One in particular had paid 48k for 4 year old M6 and had spent 15k on repairs over in just 18 months for clutch issues, SMG issues etc etc. Even when the same vintage M5 was launched, after some vigorous laps on the top gear test track JC cited the diff had exploded! These cars are incredible to drive (I have driven both M5 and M6) but are not cars that can handle a lot of abuse if you drive like an animal. If you just want to change gear at 2500 rpm and pottle around I am sure they will be reasonably reliable. But buy one with the intention of kicking its arse, be prepared to empty your wallet when the inevitable happens.
I can remember how upset and defensive BMW owners were previously, but its now widely accepted the M5 and its sister the M6 are very much the archetypal BRAVE PILL car
A number of years ago I was harassed, harangued and called a liar (ON PH) as I dared to question the reliability of this car and the related BMW M5 of the same era. My point was if driven in anger these cars tended to fail big time, even with low miles on the clock. At the time I had friends who had M6's and M5's and all of them had major issues. One in particular had paid 48k for 4 year old M6 and had spent 15k on repairs over in just 18 months for clutch issues, SMG issues etc etc. Even when the same vintage M5 was launched, after some vigorous laps on the top gear test track JC cited the diff had exploded! These cars are incredible to drive (I have driven both M5 and M6) but are not cars that can handle a lot of abuse if you drive like an animal. If you just want to change gear at 2500 rpm and pottle around I am sure they will be reasonably reliable. But buy one with the intention of kicking its arse, be prepared to empty your wallet when the inevitable happens.
I can remember how upset and defensive BMW owners were previously, but its now widely accepted the M5 and its sister the M6 are very much the archetypal BRAVE PILL car
I recall all the negativity when I picked up the E63 at the factory in June 0f 2006 that. lots of people hated the styling. I had already bought a 645ci so the styling didn't worry me a bit.
The limiter did.
Straight out of Munich I headed for Hartge in Beckingen to have the limiter hacked. There were hidden software limiters , one at 250 km/h and one at 305 Km/h. Took quite a while to get them out of there. The car was dynoed at Hartge. Claimed BHP was 507, actual 535. The SMG is auto mode was dreadful, but fine in manual if you did a micro lift on changeup.
I had it for five years. One major meltdown when ECU went haywire, and it took a week of adjustment at the dealer to replace it, luckily under warranty.
As a track car it was way to heavy and underbraked, but as a long distance road car it was magnificent, comfortable, sounded great. Fuel consumption was the worst I have ever had on any car. 10 mpg in the city, and at full clatter on the Nürburgring is was about 4 mpg.
Vmax was a bit of a concern as I was not sure how the tires would sustain it so was best to do it before tracking the car and the rise were fresh. Very precise check of tires pressures and we took two delimited cars on the autobahn at Weisskirchen at 4am on a Sunday morning ( no trucks, clear weather and light traffic). The lead car was a local German mate, so he did the lead- I was content to follow at a slight distance.
On the out run was saw a recorded 337 KM/H on his GPS so 200MPH was real. On the return run we were little slower, but I took video here. Interesting how high the revs are in 7th gear. 7600 revs, as you can see on the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMKkPxei0I
Overall a great car. I was worried about the complexity in the future and so I let it go at year 5. Still miss it.
The limiter did.
Straight out of Munich I headed for Hartge in Beckingen to have the limiter hacked. There were hidden software limiters , one at 250 km/h and one at 305 Km/h. Took quite a while to get them out of there. The car was dynoed at Hartge. Claimed BHP was 507, actual 535. The SMG is auto mode was dreadful, but fine in manual if you did a micro lift on changeup.
I had it for five years. One major meltdown when ECU went haywire, and it took a week of adjustment at the dealer to replace it, luckily under warranty.
As a track car it was way to heavy and underbraked, but as a long distance road car it was magnificent, comfortable, sounded great. Fuel consumption was the worst I have ever had on any car. 10 mpg in the city, and at full clatter on the Nürburgring is was about 4 mpg.
Vmax was a bit of a concern as I was not sure how the tires would sustain it so was best to do it before tracking the car and the rise were fresh. Very precise check of tires pressures and we took two delimited cars on the autobahn at Weisskirchen at 4am on a Sunday morning ( no trucks, clear weather and light traffic). The lead car was a local German mate, so he did the lead- I was content to follow at a slight distance.
On the out run was saw a recorded 337 KM/H on his GPS so 200MPH was real. On the return run we were little slower, but I took video here. Interesting how high the revs are in 7th gear. 7600 revs, as you can see on the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMKkPxei0I
Overall a great car. I was worried about the complexity in the future and so I let it go at year 5. Still miss it.
obscene said:
rare6499 said:
I believe Bangle oversaw the E46 which is generally regarded as one of the best looking BMW’s of all time...
He did the facelift E46, which ruined its looks. Ever wondered why they didn't bother facelifting the M3? Nuff said. You count me in as a BMW fan who hates Chris Bangle. These M6's seem to be a good bet as long as you get the rod bearings replaced, not sure what other problems would lurk in it costing big bills if it went wrong. Transmission like the E60 M5s?
RDMcG said:
I recall all the negativity when I picked up the E63 at the factory in June 0f 2006 that. lots of people hated the styling. I had already bought a 645ci so the styling didn't worry me a bit.
The limiter did.
Straight out of Munich I headed for Hartge in Beckingen to have the limiter hacked. There were hidden software limiters , one at 250 km/h and one at 305 Km/h. Took quite a while to get them out of there. The car was dynoed at Hartge. Claimed BHP was 507, actual 535. The SMG is auto mode was dreadful, but fine in manual if you did a micro lift on changeup.
I had it for five years. One major meltdown when ECU went haywire, and it took a week of adjustment at the dealer to replace it, luckily under warranty.
As a track car it was way to heavy and underbraked, but as a long distance road car it was magnificent, comfortable, sounded great. Fuel consumption was the worst I have ever had on any car. 10 mpg in the city, and at full clatter on the Nürburgring is was about 4 mpg.
Vmax was a bit of a concern as I was not sure how the tires would sustain it so was best to do it before tracking the car and the rise were fresh. Very precise check of tires pressures and we took two delimited cars on the autobahn at Weisskirchen at 4am on a Sunday morning ( no trucks, clear weather and light traffic). The lead car was a local German mate, so he did the lead- I was content to follow at a slight distance.
On the out run was saw a recorded 337 KM/H on his GPS so 200MPH was real. On the return run we were little slower, but I took video here. Interesting how high the revs are in 7th gear. 7600 revs, as you can see on the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMKkPxei0I
Overall a great car. I was worried about the complexity in the future and so I let it go at year 5. Still miss it.
Christ, never mind the exterior looks, what have they done to the inside of that one?The limiter did.
Straight out of Munich I headed for Hartge in Beckingen to have the limiter hacked. There were hidden software limiters , one at 250 km/h and one at 305 Km/h. Took quite a while to get them out of there. The car was dynoed at Hartge. Claimed BHP was 507, actual 535. The SMG is auto mode was dreadful, but fine in manual if you did a micro lift on changeup.
I had it for five years. One major meltdown when ECU went haywire, and it took a week of adjustment at the dealer to replace it, luckily under warranty.
As a track car it was way to heavy and underbraked, but as a long distance road car it was magnificent, comfortable, sounded great. Fuel consumption was the worst I have ever had on any car. 10 mpg in the city, and at full clatter on the Nürburgring is was about 4 mpg.
Vmax was a bit of a concern as I was not sure how the tires would sustain it so was best to do it before tracking the car and the rise were fresh. Very precise check of tires pressures and we took two delimited cars on the autobahn at Weisskirchen at 4am on a Sunday morning ( no trucks, clear weather and light traffic). The lead car was a local German mate, so he did the lead- I was content to follow at a slight distance.
On the out run was saw a recorded 337 KM/H on his GPS so 200MPH was real. On the return run we were little slower, but I took video here. Interesting how high the revs are in 7th gear. 7600 revs, as you can see on the video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTMKkPxei0I
Overall a great car. I was worried about the complexity in the future and so I let it go at year 5. Still miss it.
Helicopter123 said:
Schermerhorn said:
I had one of these.
Where do you even begin...................?
Enjoyed your thread (if that's the right word...) and recall the problems you had.Where do you even begin...................?
What did you do with it in the end?
I think he was glad to get rid of it in the end too.
Not a pleasant ownership at all.
If I had an open chequebook (do people still use them?) and had a relative who was a trained BMW technician with his own garage; I may consider one.
But I don't, so I won't.
I don't think these have aged well - not aesthetically, I mean in terms of tech and build, and will continue to age badly imo. I'm a bit 'meh' with the design of the 6, it was brave of BMW but it has very odd detailing and some bad angles (mainly the rear).
In reality I would like this V10 motor into an older BMW, like some modders have done. With a sorted rod bearing of course. You can scrap the rest of the donor car!
But I don't, so I won't.
I don't think these have aged well - not aesthetically, I mean in terms of tech and build, and will continue to age badly imo. I'm a bit 'meh' with the design of the 6, it was brave of BMW but it has very odd detailing and some bad angles (mainly the rear).
In reality I would like this V10 motor into an older BMW, like some modders have done. With a sorted rod bearing of course. You can scrap the rest of the donor car!
Bangle design was, and is, in my mind, generally awful.
On this the boot lid looks like it was originally designed for a totally different car and the front is made to look sad by the droopy headlights.
Personally I’d avoid and by an Alpina B6S as per this months ‘Modern Classics’ mag....
On this the boot lid looks like it was originally designed for a totally different car and the front is made to look sad by the droopy headlights.
Personally I’d avoid and by an Alpina B6S as per this months ‘Modern Classics’ mag....
Nothing changes on PH...
I love mine, can't really think of much that comes close for the money. The engine, performance & soundtrack are something exotic, the BMW badge and rear seats stop it being a true supercar. Average acceleration at low speeds/revs, but is unstoppable above 100mph. Fuel economy is awful (15mpg) and fuel tank is too small.
I removed the silencers on mine, the F1 esque exhaust note sounds fantastic. Look forward to cracking over 200mph at some point.
I love mine, can't really think of much that comes close for the money. The engine, performance & soundtrack are something exotic, the BMW badge and rear seats stop it being a true supercar. Average acceleration at low speeds/revs, but is unstoppable above 100mph. Fuel economy is awful (15mpg) and fuel tank is too small.
I removed the silencers on mine, the F1 esque exhaust note sounds fantastic. Look forward to cracking over 200mph at some point.
Edited by E63M on Sunday 1st September 20:32
Augustus Windsock said:
Bangle design was, and is, in my mind, generally awful.
On this the boot lid looks like it was originally designed for a totally different car and the front is made to look sad by the droopy headlights.
Personally I’d avoid and by an Alpina B6S as per this months ‘Modern Classics’ mag....
If Chris Harris was correct about the Bangle Memoir's, the design of the E63 went something like this....On this the boot lid looks like it was originally designed for a totally different car and the front is made to look sad by the droopy headlights.
Personally I’d avoid and by an Alpina B6S as per this months ‘Modern Classics’ mag....
Mr Bangle was in his garden on a sunny afternoon sitting cross legged with his eyes closed in a 'zen' like state. He was awaiting designs for the 6 series that very same day. When they arrived, he apparently closed his eyes and picked one of them at random.
Bangle was obsessed with changing the BMW design language, even if it meant going really "out there".
One of the most intriguing questions about bangle is whether he is a true genius or a total fraud.
Watch this early 2000 video of him explaining car design... I know he was a chief but I find his drawings of shapes hilarious:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwLemq7UM6E
There not that expensive to keep in my opinion. Mileage dependant , Very easy to work on if you have a ramp, and a good general understanding. NO offence but they were never designed to be kept by people with the funds to run a fiesta. That’s half the issue with any high performance car .. By its third owner onwards
Edited by Weekendrebuild on Saturday 10th August 19:48
redroadster said:
Think bangle styled cars have stood test of time styling wise .
I think they are horrible, from the Fiat Coupe with that odd rear wheel arch to the 5 series where it looked like they left the disguise on the boot even after releasing it. Not to mention that the 5 series was so slab sided even large wheels looked like they were struggling against a huge amount of gravity.The new Bangle is now just giving huge front grills .....
BMW have been poor at design in the main for the last 10 years, apart from odd glimmers like the i8.
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