RE: Ford Focus RS (Mk3) | Spotted
Discussion
RacerMike said:
Twinster and the new Magna diff in the A45 are the only two that can apportion torque side to side across the rear axle. All Haldex applications have a centre clutch (which is actually on the nose of the rear diff) but the side to side split is mechanical (and usually open). They therefore cannot torque vector.
In the Focus, the application of the Twinster is more aggressive than the Magna diff in the A45 as Ford run a 1.7% taller ratio on the ring gear for the PTU which means the prop shaft to the rear is always 1.7% faster than the front wheels. This means that it can be truly rear biased when the clutch packs in the Twinster are locked.
For Drift mode, the only differences in the Focus over normal mode are:
- More aggressive Throttle Map
- More aggressive ramp rate on the rear diff locking map
- More bias to the outer wheel when locking
- A switch to 'Sport DSC' which reduces torque interventions from the TCS and Stability Control and some interpolation of side slip enabling a degree of yaw control beyond basic DSC
The A45 does something similar but lacks the offset diff ratio.
Very informative. In the Focus, the application of the Twinster is more aggressive than the Magna diff in the A45 as Ford run a 1.7% taller ratio on the ring gear for the PTU which means the prop shaft to the rear is always 1.7% faster than the front wheels. This means that it can be truly rear biased when the clutch packs in the Twinster are locked.
For Drift mode, the only differences in the Focus over normal mode are:
- More aggressive Throttle Map
- More aggressive ramp rate on the rear diff locking map
- More bias to the outer wheel when locking
- A switch to 'Sport DSC' which reduces torque interventions from the TCS and Stability Control and some interpolation of side slip enabling a degree of yaw control beyond basic DSC
The A45 does something similar but lacks the offset diff ratio.
Is it just me, or does no one seem to consider the braking side of things when looking at hot hatches?
And is it just me that thinks that the standard brake setup on the Golf R/S3 is piss poor? I had very little confidence in the brakes on my S3 when pushing on - they faded far too easily.
Big fat Brembos definitely add appeal on cars like this. I don't get how VAG have gone backwards when the MK1 Cupra R got Brembos in 1999.
And is it just me that thinks that the standard brake setup on the Golf R/S3 is piss poor? I had very little confidence in the brakes on my S3 when pushing on - they faded far too easily.
Big fat Brembos definitely add appeal on cars like this. I don't get how VAG have gone backwards when the MK1 Cupra R got Brembos in 1999.
HM-2 said:
TheOversteerLever said:
And is it just me that thinks that the standard brake setup on the Golf R/S3 is piss poor?
Doesn't the RS3 have 8-piston calipers up front or something equally as absurd?I thought you could get an OEM Brembo kit on the R, but it appears you can't.
Brakes are a strange thing in all cars. I found the brakes on my 718S to be one of the weak points on the track...but on the road they were great. The feel was really strange for track work, but I never felt like I was going to run out of brakes...if that makes any sense? 'Spongy' is the word when it came to pedal feel, for me.
That being said, I would the brakes on my S3 saloon to give more 'bite' than those on my S5 and 718, so perhaps it's me who is wired wrong!
timrud said:
Cars that were better in 2016:
A45
RS3
S3
Golf R
Megane
You just can't escape the cheap and nasty interior of the Ford. I can see why it appeals to a certain demographic, who don't mind sub standard quality when blinded by the Ford RS brand.
The demographic who care more about how a car drives rather than masturbating over irrelevant interior plastics? A45
RS3
S3
Golf R
Megane
You just can't escape the cheap and nasty interior of the Ford. I can see why it appeals to a certain demographic, who don't mind sub standard quality when blinded by the Ford RS brand.
TheOversteerLever said:
Olivera said:
- 2002
PeterGadsby said:
Scribble BM said:
Only a very brave soul would buy one of these out of warranty! The amount of engine issues these cars have seems to have gone under the radar very well.
I have a friend on his 3rd engine at 23k miles!!!!!
What was the problem with the engine? Mines done over 23,000 and all it has had is the recallI have a friend on his 3rd engine at 23k miles!!!!!
- Pete
It has never used any coolant or oil and, fingers crossed, seems to be running better then ever.
In my opinion, the alternatives mentioned, mainly German, are rather like the Dacia Sandero Stepway ad that pops up in between, ie. not in the same league as the RS ! The Honda Jazz one pops up too, but ours, at 126,000 miles is now better than it ever was, and not as slug-like as it used to be ....
Yes, we all know they’ve had problems with the open-deck engine design, if the multiplicity of forum postings are to be believed, but I’d have one in a heartbeat if I could afford one and it would be the new, rumoured, 48Volt-assisted design of engine and a better gasket with possibly Wills-rings fitted ? Oh, and I’m 66 and if I’d kept my immaculate MK II I sold ten years back, I could almost do a straight swop now !!!
Yes, we all know they’ve had problems with the open-deck engine design, if the multiplicity of forum postings are to be believed, but I’d have one in a heartbeat if I could afford one and it would be the new, rumoured, 48Volt-assisted design of engine and a better gasket with possibly Wills-rings fitted ? Oh, and I’m 66 and if I’d kept my immaculate MK II I sold ten years back, I could almost do a straight swop now !!!
See I really like them and given another life I would have one. However with a newborn I went to look at one recently and found that because of the boot floor being higher than a standard focus due to the 4wd system it doesn’t fit the ‘travel system’ pram in. Yes I know I can get a roof box, but for a trip into town? No thanks. The Golf R hatch for us had the same problem (although they do the Golf R estate which is tempting - but the wife doesn’t like ‘big’ cars). Will have to stick with what I have sadly 👍 the drive was great fun - not sure the dealer enjoyed it as much though 🤣
R1 Dave said:
I'm very tempted by one of these to replace my m140i but the interior is just so dated now, seats excepted. When you compare the digital dash and infotainment system of the 7.5 Golf R to the Focus there's just no comparison. On the other hand the R is just a bit boring.
Sync3 in the later cars is a lot, lot better. It’s not quite as polished as the latest VAG system, but fors support CarPlay and even the base system Nav is very goodPhantomPH said:
Visually, the car is just all about the panel gaps, for me. Especially on the white car - feel like I could put a finger into all of them...especially the front of the bonnet!
Mate of mine has a black one and you don't notice the gaps, but any light colour....wow!
Has smaller panel gaps than a Golf don't you know. I remember 5th Gear did a 'Team Test' on the then new MK7 Golf. They compared the panel gaps between a Focus for some reason.Mate of mine has a black one and you don't notice the gaps, but any light colour....wow!
HM-2 said:
Elatino1 said:
It is very different in its operation and even more different in how it feels to actually drive.I don't mean to denigrate the Twinster system by any stretch of the imagination as it's very good, but it's really not that different in application to other clutch-based torque vectoring systems out there.
In the 19,500 miles I did in mine I had no complaints about the ride (coming from 60k miles in a Mk7 Fiesta ST it felt quite plush!), I had no issues with the seat height (standard, heated, and height adjustable Recaros are the way to go), and the interior? Everything you need right where you needed it. All of the touch points felt spot on and control weights all nicely aligned. As something to pedal it never felt overweight... You could sense the bulk, but it never struggled to control it or change direction, at all.
The brakes were a weak point for me though, I wore through to the backing plates up front in 6 and a bit sessions at Goodwood from a starting point of 40% worn from new. That surprised me!
Compared to my M140i that replaced it, the RS just felt right in every respect. Sharp and, err, focused
Lastly, I'd give quite a lot for the shift in my 140 to feel just half as good as the RS did!
MarkCup70 said:
HM-2 said:
Elatino1 said:
It is very different in its operation and even more different in how it feels to actually drive.I don't mean to denigrate the Twinster system by any stretch of the imagination as it's very good, but it's really not that different in application to other clutch-based torque vectoring systems out there.
In the 19,500 miles I did in mine I had no complaints about the ride (coming from 60k miles in a Mk7 Fiesta ST it felt quite plush!), I had no issues with the seat height (standard, heated, and height adjustable Recaros are the way to go), and the interior? Everything you need right where you needed it. All of the touch points felt spot on and control weights all nicely aligned. As something to pedal it never felt overweight... You could sense the bulk, but it never struggled to control it or change direction, at all.
The brakes were a weak point for me though, I wore through to the backing plates up front in 6 and a bit sessions at Goodwood from a starting point of 40% worn from new. That surprised me!
Compared to my M140i that replaced it, the RS just felt right in every respect. Sharp and, err, focused
Lastly, I'd give quite a lot for the shift in my 140 to feel just half as good as the RS did!
Re seat height in the Focus, I'm told (though can't attest to accuracy) that it's only the shell seats that have the issue because they conducted crash testing with the standard seats at varying heights and couldn't be bothered with the expense of doing the same with the shell seats, so they're stuck at one height.
RacerMike said:
Not sure many on here are getting upset are they? I’m certainly not....all I’m doing is responding to people who are making incorrect statements with information. Much like the rest of PH, someone expresses an opinion and/or information, and others reply....also with opinion and/or information. That’s how forums work.
Indeed. It's not about getting upset, as I certainly won't lose any sleep if random strangers don't like a car (especially one I don't own), but the amount of incorrect information posted on these types of thread is unreal. Forums like this are supposed to be a useful resource, so inaccurate information should be corrected for the benefit of all. That and I do have to laugh when people slate a car that they've probably never even sat in, let alone driven.
MarkCup70 said:
As pointed out by @RacerMike the RS system is truly unique, and for me, the wonderful thing about it is its oversped rear wheels. They give the back end wonderful mobility whenever you're on the power. As much or as little as you want.
In the 19,500 miles I did in mine I had no complaints about the ride (coming from 60k miles in a Mk7 Fiesta ST it felt quite plush!), I had no issues with the seat height (standard, heated, and height adjustable Recaros are the way to go), and the interior? Everything you need right where you needed it. All of the touch points felt spot on and control weights all nicely aligned. As something to pedal it never felt overweight... You could sense the bulk, but it never struggled to control it or change direction, at all.
The brakes were a weak point for me though, I wore through to the backing plates up front in 6 and a bit sessions at Goodwood from a starting point of 40% worn from new. That surprised me!
Compared to my M140i that replaced it, the RS just felt right in every respect. Sharp and, err, focused
Lastly, I'd give quite a lot for the shift in my 140 to feel just half as good as the RS did!
I think that I saw some of your videos actually. It seemed like you genuinely loved your RS but had rather lost confidence in its reliability and when you have that much money sunk into a car, you want it to be dependable. On balance, which do you prefer, the RS or the M140i?In the 19,500 miles I did in mine I had no complaints about the ride (coming from 60k miles in a Mk7 Fiesta ST it felt quite plush!), I had no issues with the seat height (standard, heated, and height adjustable Recaros are the way to go), and the interior? Everything you need right where you needed it. All of the touch points felt spot on and control weights all nicely aligned. As something to pedal it never felt overweight... You could sense the bulk, but it never struggled to control it or change direction, at all.
The brakes were a weak point for me though, I wore through to the backing plates up front in 6 and a bit sessions at Goodwood from a starting point of 40% worn from new. That surprised me!
Compared to my M140i that replaced it, the RS just felt right in every respect. Sharp and, err, focused
Lastly, I'd give quite a lot for the shift in my 140 to feel just half as good as the RS did!
Despite the reliability concerns, the RS is still probably my dream "real-world" daily driver. I had a 2004 WRX a few years back and loved it but saw a white RS parked up next to a bright blue new-style WRX STI in a car park the other day and despite white probably not being my first choice of colour for the RS, I felt that the Subaru looked a little bland and the RS had more presence, even though it's more subtle than previous RSs. Sounds better too, as Subarus seem to have lost their distinctive warble. The RS seems to have the "attitude" (both visual and aural) that the Subaru now lacks.
I veer between the RS and the Golf R as my dream "real-world" daily. The Golf is a bit more grown up, more cossetting ride, bit more practical, higher quality interior, more reliable? but the RS seems like it would be the more exciting, engaging driver's car and the Golf R dare I say it possibly a little boring? I certainly found this to be the case with the "normal" mk3 Focus vs. mk7 Golf. I also like the M140i as a bit of a wild card, mainly for the straight six and RWD but that compromises the passenger and boot space compared to the other two and with two kids, those two attributes are quite important to me in a daily driver. Careful what you wish for though, as the new FWD-biased M135i now holds zero appeal for me, even though it is probably more competitive on rear/boot space.
Edited by white_goodman on Monday 12th August 22:31
RacerMike said:
macky17 said:
With the new Fiesta ST (and maybe the Focus ST?) Ford seem finally to have delivered a fun hot hatch with decent ride quality for UK roads. This mk3 RS is too bloody hard because the suspension setup is cheap. Cue people saying “I’ve owned one for x years and it’s not too bad” but the fact is you haven’t owned a car with properly matched spring and damper rates if you think this is acceptable. I await the mk4 - let’s see if they’ve finally figured out where the important money needs to be invested.
Suspension setup is cheap?! What on earth are you on about? The development process for the RS was one of the most protracted hot hatch gestation periods of recent hot hatch history! They were running early prototypes back in 2013! They spent an absolute age deciding on the ride and handling attributes. So it definitely want a cheap process.The suspension is the way it is as they believe (rightly or wrongly) that this is the ride attribute people want from an RS. Whilst the primary ride behaviour on a motorway could be somewhat tiresome, on a road, when driven hard, it was about right. They had to differentiate it from the ST.
Of course it didn’t suit everyone, but it put it in a different category to the softer drag strip hero’s like the A45 and Golf R. And given how successful the car was, and how well it did in group tests, I would suggest they made the right choice!
macky17 said:
RacerMike said:
macky17 said:
With the new Fiesta ST (and maybe the Focus ST?) Ford seem finally to have delivered a fun hot hatch with decent ride quality for UK roads. This mk3 RS is too bloody hard because the suspension setup is cheap. Cue people saying “I’ve owned one for x years and it’s not too bad” but the fact is you haven’t owned a car with properly matched spring and damper rates if you think this is acceptable. I await the mk4 - let’s see if they’ve finally figured out where the important money needs to be invested.
Suspension setup is cheap?! What on earth are you on about? The development process for the RS was one of the most protracted hot hatch gestation periods of recent hot hatch history! They were running early prototypes back in 2013! They spent an absolute age deciding on the ride and handling attributes. So it definitely want a cheap process.The suspension is the way it is as they believe (rightly or wrongly) that this is the ride attribute people want from an RS. Whilst the primary ride behaviour on a motorway could be somewhat tiresome, on a road, when driven hard, it was about right. They had to differentiate it from the ST.
Of course it didn’t suit everyone, but it put it in a different category to the softer drag strip hero’s like the A45 and Golf R. And given how successful the car was, and how well it did in group tests, I would suggest they made the right choice!
The Focus is on Munroe/Tennaco dampers. Sticking a generic set of KW’s on will do absolutely nothing. If anything it will mean it has totally unmatched ride frequencies. I’d say the only bolt on damper worth considering would be a set of Öhlins, but that’s mainly because they actually spend time engineering the dampers for the car properly....and £5000 on a set of Öhlins for a Focus RS is slightly overkill.
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