RE: A ban on hands-free devices | PH Footnote
Discussion
I'm glad I'm not alone in thinking this is farcical and that whilst I accept taking a call can be distracting, there are many more elements of driving that are as bad, if not worse when it comes to being distracted at the wheel.
Hand on heart, I can drive whilst talking hands free and be alert and aware... on fact I'm probably more aware when talking than I am driving home from work and my mind wanders off thinking about dinner, how far I'd jump if I hit one of those raised police lay by things at speed and thinking about the answers for today's "minute to win it" on regional radio.
And as has been said about the complex driver controls in most modern stuff. I remember loosing an alarming amount of the A1 whilst trying to bugger around with BMW's i-drive set up and that was years ago, now it seems you need a degree in IT and the dexterity of a robot to operate even basic controls in some cars.
Then there's my little boy... 16 miles between junctions and he spits his dummy out and screams, whilst you're travelling along in rush hour traffic and believe me, that's seriously difficult to block out and remain focused on the road ahead and those all around you.
I write this from my place of work, today a brand new Sprinter which is also fitted with a handheld PDA that acts as sat nav and a job booking system and updates regularly and whilst it locks out many functions when moving, it's still active abd distracting so is that likely to be banned too?
Frankly, a stupid suggestion and also impossible to police too. Texting or taking selfies on the move is dangerous and stupid but having a discussion hands free is no worse than having a discussion with passengers or operating some basic car controls. I'd love to know how many people have run up the back of something whilst staring at the centre console, trying to get Chris Evans to p
s off or get the aircon to stop creating a mini tornado of its own accord.
Nanny state indeed.
Hand on heart, I can drive whilst talking hands free and be alert and aware... on fact I'm probably more aware when talking than I am driving home from work and my mind wanders off thinking about dinner, how far I'd jump if I hit one of those raised police lay by things at speed and thinking about the answers for today's "minute to win it" on regional radio.
And as has been said about the complex driver controls in most modern stuff. I remember loosing an alarming amount of the A1 whilst trying to bugger around with BMW's i-drive set up and that was years ago, now it seems you need a degree in IT and the dexterity of a robot to operate even basic controls in some cars.
Then there's my little boy... 16 miles between junctions and he spits his dummy out and screams, whilst you're travelling along in rush hour traffic and believe me, that's seriously difficult to block out and remain focused on the road ahead and those all around you.
I write this from my place of work, today a brand new Sprinter which is also fitted with a handheld PDA that acts as sat nav and a job booking system and updates regularly and whilst it locks out many functions when moving, it's still active abd distracting so is that likely to be banned too?
Frankly, a stupid suggestion and also impossible to police too. Texting or taking selfies on the move is dangerous and stupid but having a discussion hands free is no worse than having a discussion with passengers or operating some basic car controls. I'd love to know how many people have run up the back of something whilst staring at the centre console, trying to get Chris Evans to p
s off or get the aircon to stop creating a mini tornado of its own accord.Nanny state indeed.
Davie said:
I'd love to know how many people have run up the back of something whilst staring at the centre console, trying to get Chris Evans to ps off or get the aircon to stop creating a mini tornado of its own accord.
Nanny state indeed.
Or trying to crack the Radio 4 puzzle of the day. This morning I actually had a chance to think about it because I was queuing at a petrol pump and it was ridiculously easy, but often it's mindbending. s off or get the aircon to stop creating a mini tornado of its own accord.Nanny state indeed.
Crazy indeed but am I surprised of the potential law change - NO!!!
I do a 80 mile commute and the driving at times is chaos. I agree with most already said but I'd like to add a couple of points/observations:
1. Used my hands free last week on my commute home to make a 999 call due to a car on fire on the opposite side of the M1. Would this be against the proposed law?
2. Saw a driver in a Burka. Safe??? Able to fully observe her surroundings whilst driving???
I do a 80 mile commute and the driving at times is chaos. I agree with most already said but I'd like to add a couple of points/observations:
1. Used my hands free last week on my commute home to make a 999 call due to a car on fire on the opposite side of the M1. Would this be against the proposed law?
2. Saw a driver in a Burka. Safe??? Able to fully observe her surroundings whilst driving???
355spiderguy said:
cookie1600 said:
To me it would appear (watching too many 'real life' Police chase documentaries on TV) that the Police themselves very often using lapel mounted, personal radios while driving and they have to press a talk button, sometimes while in a pursuit, so are in effect driving one-handed.
Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
This.Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
Its very hard to maintain any credibility as a traffic officer when they come down very hard on any motorist they spot using a mobile whilst driving on the reality tv shows and the next shot they are undertaking a pursuit at 130mph whilst depressing the talk button on their lapel mounted radio updating the pursuit progress.
It screams double standards.
Pretty sure there is no part of the pursuit training courses that covers driving like this.
Speaking from the standpoint of a retired ECILOP (for those of you looking in their rear view mirrors and possibly being distracted & earning yourself a fine if the idiot MPs have their way...!) sergeant, I fully agree
I often berated my staff if I saw them using their personal ‘Airwave’ radio whilst driving as all of the vehicles were equipped with PTT in the form of a stalk behind the steering wheel and a button on the gear lever.
Absolutely no excuse for not setting a good example, yet we still see it happening (one would have thought that if they were on tv the ‘Powers That’s Be’ might have cajoled them into using the PTT stalk)
Where I live we seldom see a cop car but when we do they are always ‘double-crewed’ so again there would be no need for the driver to use his Airwave, they could use the PTT stalk or even let the colleague riding shotgun answer...
As others have stated there are plenty of other things that can distract a driver, from the radio to annoying passengers, lighting a cigarette to attempting to answer questions on ‘Pop Master’
As for the article on the BBC news page, I despair that the Police think it’s a good way to spend taxpayers money in having some clown sat on the top deck of a bus looking out for drivers transgressing the law. I’d be interested to see how many she ‘caught’, how many were ticketed and how many went to court.
I too have Apple Car Play and use the functionality to makeand receive calls and listen to/dictate text messages; no different or distracting than holding a normal conversation with a passenger in my mind
But hey-ho, the cosseted MPs in their chauffeur-driven cars don’t have to worry about such irritations
Perhaps if this ever does make it into a soecificlaw then any MP caught offending should be dealt with twice as severely as Joe Public...
coded2112 said:
I have always wondered how people with huge Satnavs stuck to the windscreen get away without being prosecuted, not only is it distracting it blocks half your vision!
This irritates the st out of me - can't have a chip in your screen but it's ok to have a 6" x 4" screen in your eye line!jay2000 said:
There is a lot of people saying that it is hard to police. Wait till they get a notice in the post taken by an HD AI camera at every traffic light and overhead gantry. It would also make lots of money for the government.
So that camera is going to do what? photograph me talking to my mobile phone using siri via car play on my head unit?! 
hardlyor distinguish between someone prodding at their head unit / in car 52" tv tablet thing - or prodding at the screen of their iphone
not likely
355spiderguy said:
cookie1600 said:
To me it would appear (watching too many 'real life' Police chase documentaries on TV) that the Police themselves very often using lapel mounted, personal radios while driving and they have to press a talk button, sometimes while in a pursuit, so are in effect driving one-handed.
Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
This.Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
Its very hard to maintain any credibility as a traffic officer when they come down very hard on any motorist they spot using a mobile whilst driving on the reality tv shows and the next shot they are undertaking a pursuit at 130mph whilst depressing the talk button on their lapel mounted radio updating the pursuit progress.
It screams double standards.
Pretty sure there is no part of the pursuit training courses that covers driving like this.
Kev_Mk3 said:
and istagramming and snap chatting.
Girl I work with has been done 3 times for the above and has now lost her licence due to it. She will do it again if required she does it all for the gram
Good make here take an extended retest...Girl I work with has been done 3 times for the above and has now lost her licence due to it. She will do it again if required she does it all for the gram
Sick to death of seeing people with mobile phones stuck to their ears while driving one handed and searching for something on the dash/floor/seat etc.
FFS how many people need to be killed before texting FBing phoning etc
Handsfree? not sure, I do it occasionally but usually just to keep in touch with wife when we are in two separate cars on a journey and son is in the other car taking the call. If the two of us are in the one car I ask the passenger to make or answer any calls.
Use the phone occasionally as a sat nav in a little carrier on the dash top. Does that count as hands free? Certainly doesn't block my forward vision and avoids sudden stops, turns, etc when in a strange area.
sidesauce said:
Blue62 said:
a person on the other end of the phone has no idea of the road conditions or the drivers situation, whereas a chatting passenger does.
Not a great argument. There are many, many situations where a chatting passenger would have no bearing on the situation in terms of helping the driver remain concentrated on the road and general surroundings as opposed to being on the end of a phone-line; in fact I can think of a few where passengers in a car would actually be more distracting (children bickering in the back of a car being the first one that comes to mind).
Drivers talking to passengers happily pause at a complex junction or similar, and the passenger typically goes quiet or helps out with road signs.
DBRacingGod said:
355spiderguy said:
cookie1600 said:
To me it would appear (watching too many 'real life' Police chase documentaries on TV) that the Police themselves very often using lapel mounted, personal radios while driving and they have to press a talk button, sometimes while in a pursuit, so are in effect driving one-handed.
Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
This.Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
Its very hard to maintain any credibility as a traffic officer when they come down very hard on any motorist they spot using a mobile whilst driving on the reality tv shows and the next shot they are undertaking a pursuit at 130mph whilst depressing the talk button on their lapel mounted radio updating the pursuit progress.
It screams double standards.
Pretty sure there is no part of the pursuit training courses that covers driving like this.
A commentary on the driving course is done between the driver and instructor/examiner
I stand to be corrected but it was never the case that officers on a driving course maintained a commentary with a control room, totally unworkable and impractical.
As an aside it was shown a good few years ago that a cop responding to a job drove a great deal faster with the roof lit up and the sirens going than without
Some may argue that it was the fact that people got out of the way, allowing greater ‘progress’
Our instructors would have countered that by saying that speed increased due to adrenaline when the blue and twos were on.
Using your mobile (talking and texting) should become part of the driving test because your never gonna stop it, most people don't have accidents whilst using them. Biggest danger on the road are these digital signs saying ' no excuse don't use mobile' which i was reading and nearly went in the back of someone.
Augustus Windsock said:
DBRacingGod said:
355spiderguy said:
cookie1600 said:
To me it would appear (watching too many 'real life' Police chase documentaries on TV) that the Police themselves very often using lapel mounted, personal radios while driving and they have to press a talk button, sometimes while in a pursuit, so are in effect driving one-handed.
Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
This.Of course I understand they have additional professional driving courses, but how is a completely non-handsfree device like a push-to-talk radio any more acceptable or safe than a handsfree telephone system if we apply the same logic of distraction? Perhaps we should all have to pass an additional test to use a handsfee phone while driving, so we can emulate the Police's ability to do so (but clearly not one-handed)?
BTW, I never answer the phone when driving, not even handsfree. Nothing is so important that it can't wait until the next stopping point.
Its very hard to maintain any credibility as a traffic officer when they come down very hard on any motorist they spot using a mobile whilst driving on the reality tv shows and the next shot they are undertaking a pursuit at 130mph whilst depressing the talk button on their lapel mounted radio updating the pursuit progress.
It screams double standards.
Pretty sure there is no part of the pursuit training courses that covers driving like this.
A commentary on the driving course is done between the driver and instructor/examiner
I stand to be corrected but it was never the case that officers on a driving course maintained a commentary with a control room, totally unworkable and impractical.
As an aside it was shown a good few years ago that a cop responding to a job drove a great deal faster with the roof lit up and the sirens going than without
Some may argue that it was the fact that people got out of the way, allowing greater ‘progress’
Our instructors would have countered that by saying that speed increased due to adrenaline when the blue and twos were on.
Done my pursuit and its refresher, so reasonably au fait.
RB Will said:
Shakermaker said:
RB Will said:
Saw a piece on the BBC news about this today and was shocked how small a problem it is.
I think the stat was something like 43 deaths where phone use was involved in 2018. Left me and the wife a bit surprised as I was expecting that number to be at least 2,000
How many serious injuries?I think the stat was something like 43 deaths where phone use was involved in 2018. Left me and the wife a bit surprised as I was expecting that number to be at least 2,000
If 43 people died yearly in the UK because of nuclear power, or some sort of immunisation, or even if 43 UK service people died in conflict ever year, there would (rightly) be uproar.
That said, this ban is clearly not the way to address the problem - though I suspect in reality the real proposal will have been exaggerated by the press.
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