RE: Porsche showcases all-new Taycan interior
Discussion
borat52 said:
The future of the car will be an electric drivetrain but it'll be a hydrogen source of electricity not a conventional battery and it's all going to take much longer than most people think to become mainstream by which time we may not even own cars if the world goes driverless.
Not for a long time, currently 95% of hydrogen comes from fossil gas and uses huge amounts of fossil energy to steam into hydrogen, a net energy loss and is still using huge amounts of fossil energyTo be green hydrogen production needs monumental investment in processing plants and would still need more energy put into the process than you get out in hydrogen. And if you have that much green energy it’s more efficient to stick it in a battery
Hopefully battery density and stability will improve greatly over the next years
NDNDNDND said:
Also, self-driving cars are never going to happen. Yes, Google can make them drive around in a geo-fenced area of Southern California, but facing down an oncoming tractor on a single-track country lane in Dorset in winter? That's not going to happen for a good, long while ...
Why would a computer find it difficult to negotiate a Dorset lane in winter? Your traction control and anti lock braking system are there because humans can't do a reliable job of driving in slippy conditions. As for "facing down" a tractor? Eh? Do you play chicken with farm machinery? In this situation both computers would give way as computers don't have willies to wave.borat52 said:
The future of the car will be an electric drivetrain but it'll be a hydrogen source of electricity not a conventional battery and it's all going to take much longer than most people think to become mainstream by which time we may not even own cars if the world goes driverless.
RacerMike said:
Absolutely everything would disagree with you on this. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are less efficient than a petrol engine well to wheel, and the logistics in both manufacturing, transporting and then delivering hydrogen are a massive headache. With electric cars, we already have the basics of an infrastructure, they are already produce less CO2 over a lifetime than petrol or diesel and the technology is already there to deliver enough range for 90% of the worlds car journeys.
Dave Hedgehog said:
Not for a long time, currently 95% of hydrogen comes from fossil gas and uses huge amounts of fossil energy to steam into hydrogen, a net energy loss and is still using huge amounts of fossil energy
To be green hydrogen production needs monumental investment in processing plants and would still need more energy put into the process than you get out in hydrogen. And if you have that much green energy it’s more efficient to stick it in a battery
And that's where all three of you are wrong. Both Japan and South Korea are heavily investing in hydrogen power to the extent that they're now starting to stop expanding their EV charging facilities. Japan is targeting having over 200 hydrogen refuelling stations by the time of the Olympics and South Korea is not that far behind.To be green hydrogen production needs monumental investment in processing plants and would still need more energy put into the process than you get out in hydrogen. And if you have that much green energy it’s more efficient to stick it in a battery
Transporting hydrogen is not an issue as the refilling stations are the processing plants, thus only the raw materials are moved around. Same is now happening (very very slowly) in the UK and Europe.
gigglebug said:
Klippie said:
I agree its on a slippery slope, all this high tech nonsense is so the snowflakes and millennials have something to play with so they don't feel detached from their phones for too long.
High tech nonsense? The defining factor of the electric car is its ability to significantly reduce the amount of energy required to perform the same task. Ignorantly picking the easy targets to blame it on will never change that fact. dapprman said:
borat52 said:
The future of the car will be an electric drivetrain but it'll be a hydrogen source of electricity not a conventional battery and it's all going to take much longer than most people think to become mainstream by which time we may not even own cars if the world goes driverless.
RacerMike said:
Absolutely everything would disagree with you on this. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are less efficient than a petrol engine well to wheel, and the logistics in both manufacturing, transporting and then delivering hydrogen are a massive headache. With electric cars, we already have the basics of an infrastructure, they are already produce less CO2 over a lifetime than petrol or diesel and the technology is already there to deliver enough range for 90% of the worlds car journeys.
Dave Hedgehog said:
Not for a long time, currently 95% of hydrogen comes from fossil gas and uses huge amounts of fossil energy to steam into hydrogen, a net energy loss and is still using huge amounts of fossil energy
To be green hydrogen production needs monumental investment in processing plants and would still need more energy put into the process than you get out in hydrogen. And if you have that much green energy it’s more efficient to stick it in a battery
And that's where all three of you are wrong. Both Japan and South Korea are heavily investing in hydrogen power to the extent that they're now starting to stop expanding their EV charging facilities. Japan is targeting having over 200 hydrogen refuelling stations by the time of the Olympics and South Korea is not that far behind.To be green hydrogen production needs monumental investment in processing plants and would still need more energy put into the process than you get out in hydrogen. And if you have that much green energy it’s more efficient to stick it in a battery
Transporting hydrogen is not an issue as the refilling stations are the processing plants, thus only the raw materials are moved around. Same is now happening (very very slowly) in the UK and Europe.
Far preferable IMHO to any of the alternatives.
Too many touchscreens. Actually, one is too many - unless they are single non-altering display with haptic response so that you can learn where to touch for a function - almost like actual buttons, which worked absolutely fine :-)
Plus, please please please can we stop calling electric cars "Zero Emissions". They are not zero emissions. They can reasonably be called "lower emissions than petrol/diesel vehicles", but they are a fairly long way from being zero emissions. Specifically:
1. Raw materials need to be sourced and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
2. The vehicle needs to be constructed and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
3. The vehicle needs to be shipped from manufacturer to consumer and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
4. The recharging infrastructure needs to be built, commissioned and maintained and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
5. Lastly, the vehicle itself still requires oils for lubrication of all various moving parts and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
In short: ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE NOT ZERO EMISSIONS VEHICLES.
Plus, please please please can we stop calling electric cars "Zero Emissions". They are not zero emissions. They can reasonably be called "lower emissions than petrol/diesel vehicles", but they are a fairly long way from being zero emissions. Specifically:
1. Raw materials need to be sourced and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
2. The vehicle needs to be constructed and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
3. The vehicle needs to be shipped from manufacturer to consumer and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
4. The recharging infrastructure needs to be built, commissioned and maintained and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
5. Lastly, the vehicle itself still requires oils for lubrication of all various moving parts and this requires energy and creates a level of emissions. I don't have the data to know exactly how much, but it is not zero.
In short: ELECTRIC VEHICLES ARE NOT ZERO EMISSIONS VEHICLES.
skwdenyer said:
dapprman said:
borat52 said:
The future of the car will be an electric drivetrain but it'll be a hydrogen source of electricity not a conventional battery and it's all going to take much longer than most people think to become mainstream by which time we may not even own cars if the world goes driverless.
RacerMike said:
Absolutely everything would disagree with you on this. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are less efficient than a petrol engine well to wheel, and the logistics in both manufacturing, transporting and then delivering hydrogen are a massive headache. With electric cars, we already have the basics of an infrastructure, they are already produce less CO2 over a lifetime than petrol or diesel and the technology is already there to deliver enough range for 90% of the worlds car journeys.
Dave Hedgehog said:
Not for a long time, currently 95% of hydrogen comes from fossil gas and uses huge amounts of fossil energy to steam into hydrogen, a net energy loss and is still using huge amounts of fossil energy
To be green hydrogen production needs monumental investment in processing plants and would still need more energy put into the process than you get out in hydrogen. And if you have that much green energy it’s more efficient to stick it in a battery
And that's where all three of you are wrong. Both Japan and South Korea are heavily investing in hydrogen power to the extent that they're now starting to stop expanding their EV charging facilities. Japan is targeting having over 200 hydrogen refuelling stations by the time of the Olympics and South Korea is not that far behind.To be green hydrogen production needs monumental investment in processing plants and would still need more energy put into the process than you get out in hydrogen. And if you have that much green energy it’s more efficient to stick it in a battery
Transporting hydrogen is not an issue as the refilling stations are the processing plants, thus only the raw materials are moved around. Same is now happening (very very slowly) in the UK and Europe.
Far preferable IMHO to any of the alternatives.
t. Even the act of charging an electric car is only ~80% efficient SidewaysSi said:
gigglebug said:
Klippie said:
I agree its on a slippery slope, all this high tech nonsense is so the snowflakes and millennials have something to play with so they don't feel detached from their phones for too long.
High tech nonsense? The defining factor of the electric car is its ability to significantly reduce the amount of energy required to perform the same task. Ignorantly picking the easy targets to blame it on will never change that fact. Either that or complete embarrassment.
FIREBIRDC9 said:
I get the feeling that cars with touchscreen interfaces like this are going to age terribly.....
I suspect you’re very correct. It’s all a massive fad at present which is driving everything to go buttonless regardless of whether it makes for a superior or safe user experience. In time there will be a cultural reversion as society settles on what systems are served better by touch screens and which by tactile switchgear and once that happens these all touch screen cockpits will look very, very dated.
The big bonus with this car though is that while they almost certainly felt using touchscreens was essential at this moment in time they have done so far more intelligently than others by breaking it all up into sensibly positioned segments rather than the really naff and ultimately idiotic cheapskate’s solution of slapping a tacky tablet in the middle of the dash.
I think this car is important in that it potentially moves the game forward and might be spearheading a move away from that very silly trend.
As someone who fervently dislikes touchscreen controls where they are not clearly superior to conventional switchgear I generally like this interior.
Overall, I think this could be a good car for those impacted in their day to day activities by current legislation.
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