RE: Porsche showcases all-new Taycan interior
Discussion
dapprman said:
And that's where all three of you are wrong. Both Japan and South Korea are heavily investing in hydrogen power to the extent that they're now starting to stop expanding their EV charging facilities. Japan is targeting having over 200 hydrogen refuelling stations by the time of the Olympics and South Korea is not that far behind.
Transporting hydrogen is not an issue as the refilling stations are the processing plants, thus only the raw materials are moved around. Same is now happening (very very slowly) in the UK and Europe.
at the moment nearly all the hydrogen in the world comes from fossil fuel and you put in more energy creating the hydrogen than you get outTransporting hydrogen is not an issue as the refilling stations are the processing plants, thus only the raw materials are moved around. Same is now happening (very very slowly) in the UK and Europe.
so again
your using fossil fuel energy to change a fossil fuel to create a 'green fuel' it would be less polluting to use petrol
This is a fuel strategy that the oil companies are pushing for as it needs heavy processing plants, lots of transport trucks and filling stations (all things they have but will be obsolete under BEVs)
if you have the energy why waste it to make a fuel when you can just send the energy to a BEV
it maybe viable in the future if they can scale up none fossil fuel production of hydrogen using green energy (but again why not just put it direct into a BEV), im betting battery tech improves far quicker than they can roll out true green hydrogen production
and why japan is doing it
"it’s because Japan has so few other options to reduce its carbon emissions. Japan’s small, mountainous and densely populated islands are ill-suited to large-scale production of renewable electricity, while in the aftermath of the meltdowns at Fukushima Daiichi in 2011, the country has little appetite for nuclear power."
so let some third world or corrupt political country make the dirty hydrogen whilst claiming to be green yourself
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Saturday 24th August 12:38
skwdenyer said:
I keep hearing this stuff but, really, how often does anyone adjust the temperature in a modern climate-controlled car? The temperature you’re comfortable at is unlikely to change all that much from day to day. It isn’t like the old days where the “temperature” control was actually just a radiator valve.
These things are configuration options (set and leave) not driving controls.
Or am I just odd in this regard?
In general I think you are right, but even in my new Cayenne I find myself changing the temp of the climate control every now and again. In very hot weather 21c seems OK, but as it cools I tend to drop it a little. I assume as my body reacts to what is comfortable ambient. These things are configuration options (set and leave) not driving controls.
Or am I just odd in this regard?
Gandahar said:
TESLA S CLASS KILLER
No matter what you think about electric cars this is the new non-dinosaur on the block and the Tesla S class is now doomed.
It's not been updated in a few years design or mechanically wise, just software updates, and the gloss has gone off it. Tesla is now concentrating on the Ford Escort part of the market with the 3 series.
Will be interesting to see the impact of this on Porsche sales of the Panamera, will there be cannibalisation?
Its a significantly different car to a Tesla S though. No matter what you think about electric cars this is the new non-dinosaur on the block and the Tesla S class is now doomed.
It's not been updated in a few years design or mechanically wise, just software updates, and the gloss has gone off it. Tesla is now concentrating on the Ford Escort part of the market with the 3 series.
Will be interesting to see the impact of this on Porsche sales of the Panamera, will there be cannibalisation?
The Taycan if anything is more similar to the model 3, but more performance focused, for twice the price.
The S is larger and a better cruiser with more range and is faster (single launch at least)
you wouldnt want to track the model S but you wouldnt want to cruise across Europe in the taycan.
The Taycan really doesnt line up with any tesla product directly and the cost combined with the 20k a year output wont change teslas sales. It is though looking like the first competent performance EV that isnt a tesla.
RobDickinson said:
Gandahar said:
TESLA S CLASS KILLER
No matter what you think about electric cars this is the new non-dinosaur on the block and the Tesla S class is now doomed.
It's not been updated in a few years design or mechanically wise, just software updates, and the gloss has gone off it. Tesla is now concentrating on the Ford Escort part of the market with the 3 series.
Will be interesting to see the impact of this on Porsche sales of the Panamera, will there be cannibalisation?
Its a significantly different car to a Tesla S though. No matter what you think about electric cars this is the new non-dinosaur on the block and the Tesla S class is now doomed.
It's not been updated in a few years design or mechanically wise, just software updates, and the gloss has gone off it. Tesla is now concentrating on the Ford Escort part of the market with the 3 series.
Will be interesting to see the impact of this on Porsche sales of the Panamera, will there be cannibalisation?
The Taycan if anything is more similar to the model 3, but more performance focused, for twice the price.
The S is larger and a better cruiser with more range and is faster (single launch at least)
you wouldnt want to track the model S but you wouldnt want to cruise across Europe in the taycan.
The Taycan really doesnt line up with any tesla product directly and the cost combined with the 20k a year output wont change teslas sales. It is though looking like the first competent performance EV that isnt a tesla.
In reality, the Porsche will more than likely compete favourably on long journeys. It really wouldn’t be difficult. The ride on a Model S is pretty ‘sporty’ to say the least and is far from plush, but I’m not sure that matters to Tesla’s target market.
I’n getting a little tired of the attitude on both sides of the Tesla fence. It feels almost as acrimonious and full of ‘alternative facts’ as the Brexit debate. Why must we endure YouTubers spending 20mins ‘debunking’ how Porsche didn’t actually really beat the Tesla 24hr distance record because x,y and z and how if you drive a Model X and a Jaguar I Pace on the same journey you’ll actually arrive 3 mins earlier in the Tesla as the supercharger will charge the car on the mandatory charging stop 7mins faster than an ionity charger will charge the Jag etc etc.
At the end of the day, some aspects of Tesla’s are really good. Some aspects are genuinely horrendous. They do the non car bits really well and the traditional car bits pretty badly. That’s a fact, but it won’t stop people liking Tesla’s. And it won’t make much difference to their viability as a car company. I suspect the Porsche will probably be better in nearly every measureable metric, but that’s unlikely to convert a hardcore Tesla fan who has a deposit down for the apparent Roadster Mk2 (which if delivered any time within the next 5 years will involve me consuming some head gear)
RobDickinson said:
Basing my opinion on someone elses who's driven both.
In what capacity though? Even the press have only had limited access. I’m sure a few journo’s have had some limited drives by now, but there’s certainly not been any chance for anyone to back to back the car against anything.Having also tested a Model S and spoken to those who’s objectively measured the ride, even a 911 rides better than the Tesla. That’s fine. It’s not going to stop people buying a Model S, but there’s no point pretending that it’s in anyway close to being a cruiser in terms of primary or secondary ride performance.
RacerMike said:
RobDickinson said:
Basing my opinion on someone elses who's driven both.
In what capacity though? Even the press have only had limited access. I’m sure a few journo’s have had some limited drives by now, but there’s certainly not been any chance for anyone to back to back the car against anything.Having also tested a Model S and spoken to those who’s objectively measured the ride, even a 911 rides better than the Tesla. That’s fine. It’s not going to stop people buying a Model S, but there’s no point pretending that it’s in anyway close to being a cruiser in terms of primary or secondary ride performance.
The new S and X have much improved suspension also. Still not track focused though.
RobDickinson said:
RacerMike said:
RobDickinson said:
Basing my opinion on someone elses who's driven both.
In what capacity though? Even the press have only had limited access. I’m sure a few journo’s have had some limited drives by now, but there’s certainly not been any chance for anyone to back to back the car against anything.Having also tested a Model S and spoken to those who’s objectively measured the ride, even a 911 rides better than the Tesla. That’s fine. It’s not going to stop people buying a Model S, but there’s no point pretending that it’s in anyway close to being a cruiser in terms of primary or secondary ride performance.
The new S and X have much improved suspension also. Still not track focused though.
Dave Hedgehog said:
It’s part of the groups EV strategy
And what’s been odd about the marketing, it’s been pretty standard sort of stuff
The VAG group is trying to market EVs to a niche? If they are then that's daft.And what’s been odd about the marketing, it’s been pretty standard sort of stuff
They seem to have made a big fuss about the fact that it will go 0-125 repeatedly, albeit slower than the competition.
I'm not sure what that means as noone goes 0-125 repeatedly, ever unless it's possibly on a track, then if that's the case why isnt' it faster than the competition?
jamoor said:
The VAG group is trying to market EVs to a niche? If they are then that's daft.
They seem to have made a big fuss about the fact that it will go 0-125 repeatedly, albeit slower than the competition.
I'm not sure what that means as noone goes 0-125 repeatedly, ever unless it's possibly on a track, then if that's the case why isnt' it faster than the competition?
VAGs EV marketing is pretty broad, along with the taycan they have been pushing the 'boring golf' ID3, the EVQ7, the utterly brilliant ID Blizz (i am ordering one) and they have been showing of the (external contractor produced) ID Buggy concept They seem to have made a big fuss about the fact that it will go 0-125 repeatedly, albeit slower than the competition.
I'm not sure what that means as noone goes 0-125 repeatedly, ever unless it's possibly on a track, then if that's the case why isnt' it faster than the competition?
The 0-125 is sound marketing if you understand how performance can drop off in EVs as the battery discharges to 50% and below (something that affects tesla's) or that ludicrous mode requires battery conditioning before being accessible (although the M3P and MS100D and MX100D can still do low 3 sec 60s all day without ludicrous mode or battery conditioning)
they are basically saying the performance of the taycan is always accessible with no requirement to condition the batteries and no loss due to battery drain, which is impressive
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