Fact or Fiction - The Italian Tune-Up
Discussion
rainmakerraw said:
RumbleOfThunder said:
This is great and vindicates what I'd already thought. I'm bouncing my i30 off its f
king valves on the way home. 
king valves on the way home. 
Max_Torque, you mentioned high revs *and* high loads to bed in rings. I'm not disagreeing, but I do have a question. Most car manuals state to avoid full throttle, high load and/or high revs (including avoiding Sport mode on an auto/DSG/PDK/etc) for X number of miles for run-in - and to definitely avoid low revs with WoT due to the load it induces.
I've always run-in cars with an hour or so of town traffic driving away from the dealership, to vary loads/revs and warm them up, and then onward to a day of cross-country NSL B-road thrashing to progressively open it up (within reason) and get everything moving. Obviously this also then involves a return leg culminating with the same hour winding (and cooling) back down through the town/city on the way home. I consider that basically job done and just drive it normally after that. Who's right/wrong? Avoid high revs and loads or introduce them gradually(ish) on a properly warm engine? Does it even matter in a modern car?
Bearings need to be run in avoiding full throttle / high load / revs
Running in is a compromise to cater for both
A few engines I've re-ringed got a spanking right from the off (once warm) because I had no need to worry about the bearings
In my view it's always been a case of the best way for an engine is to drive the vehicle throughout the range it is designed to be driven using mechanical sympathy.
To put it another way, consistently at the limit of performance thrashing the nuts off it will shorten life, equally driving like Miss Daisy isn't good for it either. But a variety across the range, from gentle to really stretching legs, all with, as above, mechanical sympathy.
To put it another way, consistently at the limit of performance thrashing the nuts off it will shorten life, equally driving like Miss Daisy isn't good for it either. But a variety across the range, from gentle to really stretching legs, all with, as above, mechanical sympathy.
A rule of thumb regarding running in that has served me well over many new engines and engine rebuilds. No more than 2/3 throttle and 2/3 max revs and just drive ‘normally’ for 1k miles then gradually increase ‘activities’ to max attack at 1.5k miles..
I would also contend that too gentle a running in period can be extremely unwise leading to glazed bores, reduced power and high rate of oil burn.
Once run in then I am firmly a member of the school that thoroughly warms up the engine driving normally and then rags the nuts of it at every available opportunity.
I would also contend that too gentle a running in period can be extremely unwise leading to glazed bores, reduced power and high rate of oil burn.
Once run in then I am firmly a member of the school that thoroughly warms up the engine driving normally and then rags the nuts of it at every available opportunity.
I don't bother with any running in with modern engines, but i do esure the engine (and in particular the oil) is nice and warm before any thrashing occurs and i allow nice cool down before switching off. I taken absolutely factory fresh engines with as little as 3 miles on the clock to a track and completely pasted the living daylights out of them without any issue, and in fact, those cars always seem to make the most power!
Interesting discussion.
My first experience of this trend was back when I was about 15 years old and helping out in a local garage during the summer. A late 90's Daewoo came in with a misfire (Vauxhall engine iirc), it was running poorly and wouldn't rev at all, this was before the Obd phase and meant having to do some digging to resolve the running issue. I jokingly suggested to the mechanic to take it up the road and give it a thrashing, sure enough said mechanic took it up the road for a while and came back with the car running perfect! The thrashing did the job and it transpired the car was a low mileage example that rarely left the village!
Ever since I've always given my cars a good workout where possible, it seems to do the trick every time.
My first experience of this trend was back when I was about 15 years old and helping out in a local garage during the summer. A late 90's Daewoo came in with a misfire (Vauxhall engine iirc), it was running poorly and wouldn't rev at all, this was before the Obd phase and meant having to do some digging to resolve the running issue. I jokingly suggested to the mechanic to take it up the road and give it a thrashing, sure enough said mechanic took it up the road for a while and came back with the car running perfect! The thrashing did the job and it transpired the car was a low mileage example that rarely left the village!
Ever since I've always given my cars a good workout where possible, it seems to do the trick every time.
I can't say I've ever tried this and have lived in blissful ignorance of not using full throttle at low RPM. Not that I do often but it's nice to learn something.
I'm a fan of the Italian tuneup. If anything, it's nice to see the difference in how fast even a slow car can feel when you're in the power band and give it a bit out of a corner. If there are mechanical health benefits to this method then all the better. Might have to take advantage of the mercifully quiet motorways at the moment and give my fleet a good kick up the backside.
I'm a fan of the Italian tuneup. If anything, it's nice to see the difference in how fast even a slow car can feel when you're in the power band and give it a bit out of a corner. If there are mechanical health benefits to this method then all the better. Might have to take advantage of the mercifully quiet motorways at the moment and give my fleet a good kick up the backside.
Many years ago I had a recurring customer who bought many cars from me, he also bought the same Renault Fuego Turbo 4 times and sold it back to me (he got bored easily but loved that car). He lived down near Penzance and drove 'enthusiastically' at all times. Whenever he brought that Fuego back after a month or two of ownership and thrashings, it went like the wind. A while with a normal owner and it got progressively more sluggish.
I had a LOT of repeat customers - one family called me 'the Library!'
I was always told (on new bikes) if the rings haven't bedded in in the first 20 miles they never would and so the advice was to give them a bit of a hard time with full throttle to bed the rings. Known lots of engines that have been run in gently (which you'd think would be kinder) and they have become 'lazy engines' with less power and responsiveness than a less gently treated engine.
I had a LOT of repeat customers - one family called me 'the Library!'
I was always told (on new bikes) if the rings haven't bedded in in the first 20 miles they never would and so the advice was to give them a bit of a hard time with full throttle to bed the rings. Known lots of engines that have been run in gently (which you'd think would be kinder) and they have become 'lazy engines' with less power and responsiveness than a less gently treated engine.
This is a really interesting thread with some great contributors. Nice about turn btw @InitialDave, self awareness on a prickly comment shows a humble attitude!
Here's the recent emissions reading from my fifteen year old five litre petrol merc.
They make for impressive reading, to me. The man from the Merc indy suggested that he was surprised by how low the readings were, too.
It regularly receives an Italian Tune Up (ITU), once warmed up and also lots of regular high speed rubs. The engine has done near 150,000 miles and the cats are original, though the backboxes are nearly new. Perhaps this is a validation of the ITU practice? I'll have to look through the history and see if I have a record of previous years, for comparison, particularly under previous ownership.
Also, I'd be interest to know from Max_Torque, what constitutes an appropriate 'cool down' period and in which driving scenario.
Here's the recent emissions reading from my fifteen year old five litre petrol merc.
They make for impressive reading, to me. The man from the Merc indy suggested that he was surprised by how low the readings were, too.
It regularly receives an Italian Tune Up (ITU), once warmed up and also lots of regular high speed rubs. The engine has done near 150,000 miles and the cats are original, though the backboxes are nearly new. Perhaps this is a validation of the ITU practice? I'll have to look through the history and see if I have a record of previous years, for comparison, particularly under previous ownership.
Also, I'd be interest to know from Max_Torque, what constitutes an appropriate 'cool down' period and in which driving scenario.
bolidemichael said:
Nice about turn btw @InitialDave, self awareness on a prickly comment shows a humble attitude!
It's pretty much what I put - I was being arsey unfairly. He's completely correct that running something aggressive though a system risks those same chemicals damaging things downstream (if the car has them), and whether I care about that/accept the level of risk doesn't mean it's not a thing.Not everything on the internet has to descend into a massive bunfight over what isn't really that much of an issue.
InitialDave said:
bolidemichael said:
Nice about turn btw @InitialDave, self awareness on a prickly comment shows a humble attitude!
It's pretty much what I put - I was being arsey unfairly. He's completely correct that running something aggressive though a system risks those same chemicals damaging things downstream (if the car has them), and whether I care about that/accept the level of risk doesn't mean it's not a thing.Not everything on the internet has to descend into a massive bunfight over what isn't really that much of an issue.
I have a 2009 Mercedes A Class diesel that failed its MOT due to emissions. Thanks to you guys, I learned about the Italian tune-up and, together with Redex diesel treatment and Slick-50 (which my dad used in his VW Passatt in the 80s, it passed the re-test.
So I just wanted to say thank you - you all saved me a lot of money, because the Halfords mechanic quoted me several hundred pounds for new valves.
So I just wanted to say thank you - you all saved me a lot of money, because the Halfords mechanic quoted me several hundred pounds for new valves.
bolidemichael said:
How did you come across such an old thread?
Could be desperation from owning an A class?I get lots of mot fails for emissions and believe me a proper hard thrash right before taking them
Back for the retest mot ( drop them
Off with the exhaust red hot) does not usually work.
I think the Italian tune up myth goes back to old
Carburettor cars but does not work on fuel injectoin/diesel emissions strangled cars.
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