RE: Jeep Grand Cherokee Trackhawk | Spotted
Discussion
ghost83 said:
jet_noise said:
Typo or ISWYDT?
I really like the idea of Hellcrate. Lost Marvel superhero, discarded spoof heavy metal band name, funnycar class dragster?
Not a typo a hellcat engine can be bought to go in other cars and they call it a hellcrateI really like the idea of Hellcrate. Lost Marvel superhero, discarded spoof heavy metal band name, funnycar class dragster?
Every day's a learning day
king diesel. No thanks GranCab said:
I have to confess, an sq7 holds a certain appeal as a family barge. But the interior is sub bmw and the engine is interesting but not exactly in the same class as the hellcat hemi. I suspect my money would go on a 3l bog standard rrs or x5 and major on the soft ride rather than the power then buy a challenger wide body for weekends
sidesauce said:
A twin turbo v8 diesel that sounds pretty amazing and has 900 Nm torque (more than the Trackhawk in fact) is not to be sniffed at though...
Torque doesn’t accelerate mass, power does.The Audi has peak power over about 1500rpm Range.
The jeep puts out more HP than the peak sq7 over 3k rpm and peaks at 260bhp more than the
Audi. Huge difference.
sidesauce said:
eliot said:
A twin turbo v8 diesel that sounds pretty amazing and has 900 Nm torque (more than the Trackhawk in fact) is not to be sniffed at though...https://youtu.be/J9Y-dmRGAkE
That black smoke that comes out the back when you floor it - is just another little bit of your soul burning away.
Edited by eliot on Monday 26th August 00:12
borat52 said:
Torque doesn’t accelerate mass, power does.
The Audi has peak power over about 1500rpm Range.
The jeep puts out more HP than the peak sq7 over 3k rpm and peaks at 260bhp more than the
Audi. Huge difference.
Torque is exactly what accelerates mass. Remember the equation F = m*a ? Where F is applied at an angle and at some distance from the rotational axis, torque is the result.The Audi has peak power over about 1500rpm Range.
The jeep puts out more HP than the peak sq7 over 3k rpm and peaks at 260bhp more than the
Audi. Huge difference.
Power determines the vehicle’s speed for a specific torque output. P = T*w where w is rotational speed.
So torque determines acceleration while power determines the speed you can accelerate to (at a given torque).
ETA: you can of course set up the transmission gearing to manipulate the wheel torque & power based on the engine’s power & torque characteristics.
Edited by AndyXF on Monday 26th August 00:50
AndyXF said:
Torque is exactly what accelerates mass. Remember the equation F = m*a ? Where F is applied at an angle and at some distance from the rotational axis, torque is the result.
Power determines the vehicle’s speed for a specific torque output. P = T*w where w is rotational speed.
So torque determines acceleration while power determines the speed you can accelerate to (at a given torque).
ETA: you can of course set up the transmission gearing to manipulate the wheel torque & power based on the engine’s power & torque characteristics.
Gold star to the try-hard. But it’s still a diesel - and whilst there blood in my veins and petrol in the pumps - a supercharged v8 hemi is always going to more exciting to me.Power determines the vehicle’s speed for a specific torque output. P = T*w where w is rotational speed.
So torque determines acceleration while power determines the speed you can accelerate to (at a given torque).
ETA: you can of course set up the transmission gearing to manipulate the wheel torque & power based on the engine’s power & torque characteristics.
Edited by AndyXF on Monday 26th August 00:50
Shappers24 said:
You can pick up the standard srt model, which has 461bhp and hits 60 in 4.6 seconds for less than £28K for a 3 year old model of that kind of thing floats your boat.... appreciate it’s not as quick and not as rare, but that’s quite the saving over the trackhawk.
Indeed - saw one in the flesh couple of weeks ago owner spoke highly of it and it did look pretty mean.Can’t really see the appeal - massive cost, unusable performance and dodgy reliability reputation. Will be worth buttons in 5 years time. The thing that gets me the most about American cars though is the variety of ridiculous faux macho names they come up with - a few of my (un) favourites: Trackhawk, Hellcat, and who can forget the laughable (Dodge) “Nitro”. Loada codswallop!
ghost83 said:
Surely cheaper to build your own! 2yr old Jeep Grand Cherokee around 20k then buy a hellcrate engine
Its not just a superchargerThe engine, gearbox, drive train brakes and suspension are upgraded
I looked at doing it with an SRT8
You'd be better of waiting until used prices drop next year
AndyXF said:
Torque is exactly what accelerates mass. Remember the equation F = m*a ? Where F is applied at an angle and at some distance from the rotational axis, torque is the result.
Power determines the vehicle’s speed for a specific torque output. P = T*w where w is rotational speed.
So torque determines acceleration while power determines the speed you can accelerate to (at a given torque).
ETA: you can of course set up the transmission gearing to manipulate the wheel torque & power based on the engine’s power & torque characteristics.
This is not a correct understanding of the physics.Power determines the vehicle’s speed for a specific torque output. P = T*w where w is rotational speed.
So torque determines acceleration while power determines the speed you can accelerate to (at a given torque).
ETA: you can of course set up the transmission gearing to manipulate the wheel torque & power based on the engine’s power & torque characteristics.
Edited by AndyXF on Monday 26th August 00:50
I'll agree with you on the point that engine torque and wheel torque are very different due to the gearbox which is often a very misunderstood principle.
The easiest way I can think of explaining it is this. If you give me a power output and a starting velocity (assuming fixed mass) then I can tell you the acceleration assuming no drivetrain losses.
If you give me a torque and velocity I cannot tell you the acceleration unless you give me more information, ie engine torque requires you to give me engine rpm (and thus power as power is torque x rpm) and if you give me wheel torque I also need wheel rpm (hence once again power).
Another way of putting it is this 1000lbft of torque at 1rpm engine speed will be out accelerated by 1lbft of torque at 1001rpm all other things equal.
To restate, torque does not accelerate mass, power does. Torque and rpm do accelerate mass, torque and rpm being power.
Think of torque as a static force, its how much of that force that you can apply in a given time which is power which is why torque applied to a fast rotation generates more power than the same torque applied to a slow roation (again all other things equal).
Happy TrackHawk owner here I've had mine for nearly 2 months now and 4000+ fun and pleasurable miles.
I see a fair bit of 'anti' prejudice on this threat - maybe it's because it carries a Jeep badge and not some 'prestige' badge (that I wouldn't want to own anyway). I started typing responses...
The M3 seems massively overpriced for what is simply a fast 3-series.
Rinse and repeat.
When do I use the performance? Pretty much every time I take it out. In fairness you cant hold pedal to the metal for more than a few seconds…but it’s mighty impressive just how quickly you arrive at whatever [legal] speed you fancy.
You could no doubt build your own GT3 too. Just get a 2 year old Carrera and a few bits and bobs and hey presto – a GT3. Same logic.
Anyway, back to singing its praises. I've only actually used the timed launch twice - once to 60, and once to 100 just for the hell of it as in truth it serves no real purpose. But on a private testing ground, with a passenger, with the weekly Tesco shopping in the back we got:
That would be 0-60 in 3.3, and 0-100 in 8 seconds dead. That's just on the 'standard' setup; I gather from forums if you mess with the launch revs you can get it faster, but I can't be bothered trying. Oh, and it stops well too, and handles surprisingly well although clearly not a chuckable lightweight sports car.
...and to my eyes the most handsome and best proportioned of all the SUVs. And low-key enough to slip unnoticed as just another SUV, but with a little bit of 'menace' in there.
Lots of comments re cost and quality. The bloke that fitted my tracker said, unsolicited, that the leather was some of the best he'd seen - and that's a guy that fits to lots of high-end stuff. I'm guessing the reason he did say it was because he expected Jeep leather to be crap. So nice leather and stitching; and what certainly looks like real carbon fibre. Electric everything, full-length sunroof and blind - all one-touch; the absolutely best adaptive cruise controls I've ever experienced - it's almost psychic. Never sits too close, never sits too far back, never spooked by cars overtaking or being overtaken etc. The lane guidance stuff (that I don t use) doesn't just give a warning - if you enable it it will steer the car based on lane markings (you can easily overpower it). Nice (to my ears) harman kardon sound system. Electric tailgate. Neat configurable touch screen interface with 'Performance pages' - the fun one is the real-time dyno display. Heated seats all round, obviously - but the fronts are also vented and cooled. I drive a lot of different cars and I can't think of any 'option' that is missing apart from the birds-eye view some cars with multiple cameras simulate when parking. This just has a (very good) rear camera and then front/side sensors - but the sensors will also pick up approaching traffic if reversing out from a blind drive. Certainly on the UK models everything is there - the only options are colours and a choice of 2 wheel styles.
Given how highly specced these things are, I'd be more inclined to ask why BMW, Merc et all can chare more for no more kit and a less powerful motor. Maybe these makes have leather made from whale-penis foreskins tanned on a virgin's thigh. The Jeep just has cow - but soft-to-the-touch cow. Maybe they use unicorn tusks hand polished underground be elfen craftsmen. The Jeep has carbon fibre. Or maybe folks just pay for a badge.
Essay over - you can probably guess by now I rather like it.
I've had mine for nearly 2 months now and 4000+ fun and pleasurable miles.I see a fair bit of 'anti' prejudice on this threat - maybe it's because it carries a Jeep badge and not some 'prestige' badge (that I wouldn't want to own anyway). I started typing responses...
FlukePlay said:
This appears to be massively overpriced for what is simply a fast Cherokee. When will you ever use that performance? Ownership for those with a majority stake in a Kazakh oilfield.
The GT3 seems massively overpriced for what is simply a fast Porche.The M3 seems massively overpriced for what is simply a fast 3-series.
Rinse and repeat.
When do I use the performance? Pretty much every time I take it out. In fairness you cant hold pedal to the metal for more than a few seconds…but it’s mighty impressive just how quickly you arrive at whatever [legal] speed you fancy.
ghost83 said:
Surely cheaper to build your own! 2yr old Jeep Grand Cherokee around 20k then buy a hellcrate engine
Absolutely. Maybe £40K for a 2 -year old SRT (feel free to check). £20K for the motor – fitted for free no doubt. Then the bigger brakes (6-pot Brembos up front, 4-pots on the rear). Bigger wheels with wider rubber all round. And remember to beef-up the transmission – even with the 1000hp upgrades Hennesey and others are doing the Trackhawk transmission stands up to multiple launch-control starts. The standard SRT transmission? Maybe not so much. So now you’ve probably spent not too far south of 70 grand…and what have you got? A souped-up 2-year-old SRT, which is not a Trackhawk.You could no doubt build your own GT3 too. Just get a 2 year old Carrera and a few bits and bobs and hey presto – a GT3. Same logic.
jakesmith said:
Makes more sense at £20k in 4 years I’d think. The performance doesn’t make up for the lack of badge prestige at £80k IMO
Sure. Look at the prices of the SRTs now – cost maybe £60K new and you can pick one up for peanuts now. Oh wait – I was looking for one for months before I bought the Trackhawk and decent ones simply aren’t there for much under £35K. They’ve dropped maybe 50% or less in 3 years, and that’s ‘just’ the SRTs. I think you’ll have a long wait to see one at £20K. Anyway, back to singing its praises. I've only actually used the timed launch twice - once to 60, and once to 100 just for the hell of it as in truth it serves no real purpose. But on a private testing ground, with a passenger, with the weekly Tesco shopping in the back we got:
That would be 0-60 in 3.3, and 0-100 in 8 seconds dead. That's just on the 'standard' setup; I gather from forums if you mess with the launch revs you can get it faster, but I can't be bothered trying. Oh, and it stops well too, and handles surprisingly well although clearly not a chuckable lightweight sports car.
...and to my eyes the most handsome and best proportioned of all the SUVs. And low-key enough to slip unnoticed as just another SUV, but with a little bit of 'menace' in there.
Lots of comments re cost and quality. The bloke that fitted my tracker said, unsolicited, that the leather was some of the best he'd seen - and that's a guy that fits to lots of high-end stuff. I'm guessing the reason he did say it was because he expected Jeep leather to be crap. So nice leather and stitching; and what certainly looks like real carbon fibre. Electric everything, full-length sunroof and blind - all one-touch; the absolutely best adaptive cruise controls I've ever experienced - it's almost psychic. Never sits too close, never sits too far back, never spooked by cars overtaking or being overtaken etc. The lane guidance stuff (that I don t use) doesn't just give a warning - if you enable it it will steer the car based on lane markings (you can easily overpower it). Nice (to my ears) harman kardon sound system. Electric tailgate. Neat configurable touch screen interface with 'Performance pages' - the fun one is the real-time dyno display. Heated seats all round, obviously - but the fronts are also vented and cooled. I drive a lot of different cars and I can't think of any 'option' that is missing apart from the birds-eye view some cars with multiple cameras simulate when parking. This just has a (very good) rear camera and then front/side sensors - but the sensors will also pick up approaching traffic if reversing out from a blind drive. Certainly on the UK models everything is there - the only options are colours and a choice of 2 wheel styles.
Given how highly specced these things are, I'd be more inclined to ask why BMW, Merc et all can chare more for no more kit and a less powerful motor. Maybe these makes have leather made from whale-penis foreskins tanned on a virgin's thigh. The Jeep just has cow - but soft-to-the-touch cow. Maybe they use unicorn tusks hand polished underground be elfen craftsmen. The Jeep has carbon fibre. Or maybe folks just pay for a badge.
Essay over - you can probably guess by now I rather like it.
tvrolet said:
Happy TrackHawk owner here I've had mine for nearly 2 months now and 4000+ fun and pleasurable miles.
I see a fair bit of 'anti' prejudice on this threat - maybe it's because it carries a Jeep badge and not some 'prestige' badge (that I wouldn't want to own anyway). I started typing responses...
The M3 seems massively overpriced for what is simply a fast 3-series.
Rinse and repeat.
When do I use the performance? Pretty much every time I take it out. In fairness you cant hold pedal to the metal for more than a few seconds…but it’s mighty impressive just how quickly you arrive at whatever [legal] speed you fancy.
You could no doubt build your own GT3 too. Just get a 2 year old Carrera and a few bits and bobs and hey presto – a GT3. Same logic.
Anyway, back to singing its praises. I've only actually used the timed launch twice - once to 60, and once to 100 just for the hell of it as in truth it serves no real purpose. But on a private testing ground, with a passenger, with the weekly Tesco shopping in the back we got:
That would be 0-60 in 3.3, and 0-100 in 8 seconds dead. That's just on the 'standard' setup; I gather from forums if you mess with the launch revs you can get it faster, but I can't be bothered trying. Oh, and it stops well too, and handles surprisingly well although clearly not a chuckable lightweight sports car.
...and to my eyes the most handsome and best proportioned of all the SUVs. And low-key enough to slip unnoticed as just another SUV, but with a little bit of 'menace' in there.
Lots of comments re cost and quality. The bloke that fitted my tracker said, unsolicited, that the leather was some of the best he'd seen - and that's a guy that fits to lots of high-end stuff. I'm guessing the reason he did say it was because he expected Jeep leather to be crap. So nice leather and stitching; and what certainly looks like real carbon fibre. Electric everything, full-length sunroof and blind - all one-touch; the absolutely best adaptive cruise controls I've ever experienced - it's almost psychic. Never sits too close, never sits too far back, never spooked by cars overtaking or being overtaken etc. The lane guidance stuff (that I don t use) doesn't just give a warning - if you enable it it will steer the car based on lane markings (you can easily overpower it). Nice (to my ears) harman kardon sound system. Electric tailgate. Neat configurable touch screen interface with 'Performance pages' - the fun one is the real-time dyno display. Heated seats all round, obviously - but the fronts are also vented and cooled. I drive a lot of different cars and I can't think of any 'option' that is missing apart from the birds-eye view some cars with multiple cameras simulate when parking. This just has a (very good) rear camera and then front/side sensors - but the sensors will also pick up approaching traffic if reversing out from a blind drive. Certainly on the UK models everything is there - the only options are colours and a choice of 2 wheel styles.
Given how highly specced these things are, I'd be more inclined to ask why BMW, Merc et all can chare more for no more kit and a less powerful motor. Maybe these makes have leather made from whale-penis foreskins tanned on a virgin's thigh. The Jeep just has cow - but soft-to-the-touch cow. Maybe they use unicorn tusks hand polished underground be elfen craftsmen. The Jeep has carbon fibre. Or maybe folks just pay for a badge.
Essay over - you can probably guess by now I rather like it.
Great post. Hands down the coolest SUV any amount of money can buy IMO. It's on my list of possible replacement school run cars; heavy duty tow capacity too. I've had mine for nearly 2 months now and 4000+ fun and pleasurable miles.I see a fair bit of 'anti' prejudice on this threat - maybe it's because it carries a Jeep badge and not some 'prestige' badge (that I wouldn't want to own anyway). I started typing responses...
FlukePlay said:
This appears to be massively overpriced for what is simply a fast Cherokee. When will you ever use that performance? Ownership for those with a majority stake in a Kazakh oilfield.
The GT3 seems massively overpriced for what is simply a fast Porche.The M3 seems massively overpriced for what is simply a fast 3-series.
Rinse and repeat.
When do I use the performance? Pretty much every time I take it out. In fairness you cant hold pedal to the metal for more than a few seconds…but it’s mighty impressive just how quickly you arrive at whatever [legal] speed you fancy.
ghost83 said:
Surely cheaper to build your own! 2yr old Jeep Grand Cherokee around 20k then buy a hellcrate engine
Absolutely. Maybe £40K for a 2 -year old SRT (feel free to check). £20K for the motor – fitted for free no doubt. Then the bigger brakes (6-pot Brembos up front, 4-pots on the rear). Bigger wheels with wider rubber all round. And remember to beef-up the transmission – even with the 1000hp upgrades Hennesey and others are doing the Trackhawk transmission stands up to multiple launch-control starts. The standard SRT transmission? Maybe not so much. So now you’ve probably spent not too far south of 70 grand…and what have you got? A souped-up 2-year-old SRT, which is not a Trackhawk.You could no doubt build your own GT3 too. Just get a 2 year old Carrera and a few bits and bobs and hey presto – a GT3. Same logic.
jakesmith said:
Makes more sense at £20k in 4 years I’d think. The performance doesn’t make up for the lack of badge prestige at £80k IMO
Sure. Look at the prices of the SRTs now – cost maybe £60K new and you can pick one up for peanuts now. Oh wait – I was looking for one for months before I bought the Trackhawk and decent ones simply aren’t there for much under £35K. They’ve dropped maybe 50% or less in 3 years, and that’s ‘just’ the SRTs. I think you’ll have a long wait to see one at £20K. Anyway, back to singing its praises. I've only actually used the timed launch twice - once to 60, and once to 100 just for the hell of it as in truth it serves no real purpose. But on a private testing ground, with a passenger, with the weekly Tesco shopping in the back we got:
That would be 0-60 in 3.3, and 0-100 in 8 seconds dead. That's just on the 'standard' setup; I gather from forums if you mess with the launch revs you can get it faster, but I can't be bothered trying. Oh, and it stops well too, and handles surprisingly well although clearly not a chuckable lightweight sports car.
...and to my eyes the most handsome and best proportioned of all the SUVs. And low-key enough to slip unnoticed as just another SUV, but with a little bit of 'menace' in there.
Lots of comments re cost and quality. The bloke that fitted my tracker said, unsolicited, that the leather was some of the best he'd seen - and that's a guy that fits to lots of high-end stuff. I'm guessing the reason he did say it was because he expected Jeep leather to be crap. So nice leather and stitching; and what certainly looks like real carbon fibre. Electric everything, full-length sunroof and blind - all one-touch; the absolutely best adaptive cruise controls I've ever experienced - it's almost psychic. Never sits too close, never sits too far back, never spooked by cars overtaking or being overtaken etc. The lane guidance stuff (that I don t use) doesn't just give a warning - if you enable it it will steer the car based on lane markings (you can easily overpower it). Nice (to my ears) harman kardon sound system. Electric tailgate. Neat configurable touch screen interface with 'Performance pages' - the fun one is the real-time dyno display. Heated seats all round, obviously - but the fronts are also vented and cooled. I drive a lot of different cars and I can't think of any 'option' that is missing apart from the birds-eye view some cars with multiple cameras simulate when parking. This just has a (very good) rear camera and then front/side sensors - but the sensors will also pick up approaching traffic if reversing out from a blind drive. Certainly on the UK models everything is there - the only options are colours and a choice of 2 wheel styles.
Given how highly specced these things are, I'd be more inclined to ask why BMW, Merc et all can chare more for no more kit and a less powerful motor. Maybe these makes have leather made from whale-penis foreskins tanned on a virgin's thigh. The Jeep just has cow - but soft-to-the-touch cow. Maybe they use unicorn tusks hand polished underground be elfen craftsmen. The Jeep has carbon fibre. Or maybe folks just pay for a badge.
Essay over - you can probably guess by now I rather like it.
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