RE: Renaultsport Clio 200 | PH Fleet

[davyvee]

TomTVR500 said:

The only time I ever really enjoyed driving it was up in Northumberlan on a very technical, twisty B road with sharp depressions and adverse cambers. I drove it harder than perhaps is socially acceptable on the road, quite literally like I had stolen it (only smoothly) and it was the only time it really shone or impressed me. Which is pretty much useless if you like having a driving licence, have a social conscience or you don't live in the middle of nowhere and have access to deserted stretches of well sighted B roads.

Pretty similar story here. I think my 200 made me giggle once when ahem driving like an idiot on a very smooth deserted road. Moffat to Selkirk iirc.

Whereas the trophy would have you laughing your head off on the short commute to work.

[CharlieGee]

Anyone gone from a 182 to a 200 and much prefer the later car? I can normally see beyond appearances but I love how the 200 looks and have been trying to talk myself into it for a while. Doesn’t help that my 182 is silver either.

On a separate point I got an Elise 111S to sit alongside the 182 earlier this year and, whilst I’ve been enjoying it, what it has shown me is how good the 182 actually is. I don’t get that much more pleasure from a drive in the Lotus than the Clio.

[Deep Thought]

Chalk said:

Deep Thought said:

If someone is thinking of buying one, bear in mind they are quite difficult to resell, so make sure you buy at the right price in the first place.

Any truth in this ?

Speaking from experience, yes. Also theres been people on here talking about the difficulty in reselling them.

I think Cup spec helps, but they are not popular on the used market. I had my 197 for sale for 4 months and not one call. Low miles and well priced. We had our 200 Cup for sale for 3 months, just one caller and fortunately they guy came out and bought it.

Expensive to tune and hard on fuel doesnt help them.

[EC123]

thiscocks said:

soad said:

What’s the gear change like in these?

Not that great to be honest

Should be smooth as butter and a short throw mate, have you had the gearbox oil changed at l.

[EC123]

CharlieGee said:

Anyone gone from a 182 to a 200 and much prefer the later car? I can normally see beyond appearances but I love how the 200 looks and have been trying to talk myself into it for a while. Doesn’t help that my 182 is silver either.

On a separate point I got an Elise 111S to sit alongside the 182 earlier this year and, whilst I’ve been enjoying it, what it has shown me is how good the 182 actually is. I don’t get that much more pleasure from a drive in the Lotus than the Clio.

Spend some time in a 200 and see if u still fancy a 182.. I’m doubtful

[Tickle]

EC123 said:

thiscocks said:

soad said:

What’s the gear change like in these?

Not that great to be honest

Should be smooth as butter and a short throw mate, have you had the gearbox oil changed at l.

The change is fantastic on a 200. Stiff box when cold, I always block shifted from 1st to 3rd when cold. I think people who have no mechanical sympathy may have increased the synchro probs when cold shifting. When the box is warm it's a lovely throw. Evo waxed lyrical about the change.

[thenortherner]

soad said:

Chalk said:

Deep Thought said:

If someone is thinking of buying one, bear in mind they are quite difficult to resell, so make sure you buy at the right price in the first place.

Any truth in this ?

Perhaps similar to a Megane? Cups more desirable? Happy to be corrected.

Couldn't get rid of mine for love nor money.

Despite it being in great condition, low miles and a full main dealer history with thousands spent and a full file of invoices.

I had the usual mouth breathers ring up but nothing serious. One justified their offer saying that he was doing me a favour as I'd probably get what he was offering as a trade-in price.

Ended up selling to a private trader and it sold for £1K more that I'd priced it at 3 days later.

Edited by thenortherner on Monday 26th August 17:41

[jcl]

I bet all it would take would be narrower tires and a stiffer rear ARB and it’d be at least as much fun.

As said before, an S1/S2 106 Rallye/GTI is another level on from any Renault Sport, Williams included. Road going go karts.

[Krikkit]

jcl said:

As said before, an S1/S2 106 Rallye/GTI is another level on from any Renault Sport, Williams included. Road going go karts.

Having owned both a Rallye and 172 I'd say they're about even.

The Rallye has better handling, thanks to its low weight and 90s Peugeot handling setup. The 172 has a better engine and just enough toys to make it very viable as an every day car.

[Drekly]

thenortherner said:

soad said:

Chalk said:

Deep Thought said:

If someone is thinking of buying one, bear in mind they are quite difficult to resell, so make sure you buy at the right price in the first place.

Any truth in this ?

Perhaps similar to a Megane? Cups more desirable? Happy to be corrected.

Couldn't get rid of mine for love nor money.

Despite it being in great condition, low miles and a full main dealer history with thousands spent and a full file of invoices.

I had the usual mouth breathers ring up but nothing serious. One justified their offer saying that he was doing me a favour as I'd probably get what he was offering as a trade-in price.

Ended up selling to a private trader and it sold for £1K more that I'd priced it at 3 days later.

Edited by thenortherner on Monday 26th August 17:41

There is some truth to this. It took months to sell my absolutely immaculate 275 with Cup pack, super low miles in the best colour at a very, very keen price. The only thing it lacked was Recaros. I'm convinced that, outside a tiny group of enthusiasts, and no matter how good reviews are, Renaults are ignored by a wider audience.
I guess new Golf GTIs/Rs massively outsell the Megane, as Fiesta STs and fast Minis outsell the Clio. And popularity in the used market is no different.

As for the Clio 200 specifically, I wasn't blown away when I test drove one. True the handling is utterly brilliant, steering very good and the brakes are strong, but once you've got used to a torquier turbo engine with anything over 180bhp the Clio lump is gutless in comparison, and it doesn't even sound that great revving the nuts off it. Which you have to do to make it move.

[mooseracer]

jcl said:

I bet all it would take would be narrower tires and a stiffer rear ARB and it’d be at least as much fun.

As said before, an S1/S2 106 Rallye/GTI is another level on from any Renault Sport, Williams included. Road going go karts.

S1 106 yes, but aren't the S2s just a bit cynical from Peugeot?

[lee_erm]

I've always believed an EP3 Type R was a better performance car than the 197/200. The steering feel was maybe a little lacking in the Civic, but then it's got a more enjoyable engine, a nicer shift and independent rear suspension. They even weigh about the same.

That's where my 6 or so grand would go. Which should get you a mint EP3.

Edited by lee_erm on Monday 26th August 21:34

[Leicester Loyal]

lee_erm said:

I've always believed an EP3 Type R was a better performance car than the 197/200. The steering feel was maybe a little lacking in the Civic, but then it's got a more enjoyable engine, a nicer shift and independent rear suspension. They even weigh about the same.

That's where my 6 or so grand would go. Which should get you a mint EP3.

Edited by lee_erm on Monday 26th August 21:34

I'd say the EP3 is more of a direct competitor to the 172 and 182 personally, just because they were released around the same time.

[keo]

The engine and box in the ep3 are brilliant but the electric power steering absolutely ruined it for me. Hated the car and sold with in 6 months. Although I admit was a different car on good tyres.
I had a clio Trophy, put the ep3 engine and box in that and would be a perfect hot hatch imo.
I had a quick test drive of a non cup 200 I enjoyed it. But ended up buying a completely different car.

[thiscocks]

Tickle said:

EC123 said:

thiscocks said:

soad said:

What’s the gear change like in these?

Not that great to be honest

Should be smooth as butter and a short throw mate, have you had the gearbox oil changed at l.

The change is fantastic on a 200. Stiff box when cold, I always block shifted from 1st to 3rd when cold. I think people who have no mechanical sympathy may have increased the synchro probs when cold shifting. When the box is warm it's a lovely throw. Evo waxed lyrical about the change.

I found it a bit vague and that it didn't like to be rushed. Remember on a track day it refused to be rushed changing down and literally I couldnt get it into 3rd on several occasions. Maybe my box wasnt 100%...

[jcl]

Krikkit said:

jcl said:

As said before, an S1/S2 106 Rallye/GTI is another level on from any Renault Sport, Williams included. Road going go karts.

Having owned both a Rallye and 172 I'd say they're about even.

The Rallye has better handling, thanks to its low weight and 90s Peugeot handling setup. The 172 has a better engine and just enough toys to make it very viable as an every day car.

I’ve only driven a 172 Cup briefly and it just too grown up and compromised to me. As you say, a daily.

Parents had a Williams that was great but the steering and general connectivity was nowhere near my S1 Rallye or even non-assisted S2 Rallye. I’ve said on here before that if they made them again now, I’d buy two!

[sideshowfred]

I think these cars are often overlooked as if you ever ask any opinion everyone says the 172/182 is better. The problem is it shouldn't be compared to them. It has to be taken as its own thing. That's before you even get to the whole 'its French' thing that is very badge snobbery. I came to mine having had a MK5 Golf GTI for 3 years and it was a revelation in how a hatchback can handle.

The difficulty is that as i fell in love with it i've not found anything since that i think could provide as much fun at the same price point and age of the car. They get a bit tiring to have as a daily with the cup suspension but i still can't find another car the same age, for the same money that feels so good on the right road. I had an absolute blast in mine yesterday on some technical little B roads at speeds well under the limit.

[Frimley111R]

I have a lightly modded Megane R26 (not much bigger that this Clio 200) and it is also a riot but has more power. I know a FRS, or CTR would be easier to drive fast and plain faster but I also know that the R26 would wipe the floor with them both in terms of excitement. Bigger is better but in every way.

A friend took me round the ring in his std Clio 200. After that no-one would say it's not a pretty awesome thing, just perhaps one that slightly lacks power but tbh once you're up to speed it's more bravery than power that determines your speed.

[drewos]

Tickle said:

The change is fantastic on a 200. Stiff box when cold, I always block shifted from 1st to 3rd when cold. I think people who have no mechanical sympathy may have increased the synchro probs when cold shifting. When the box is warm it's a lovely throw. Evo waxed lyrical about the change.

Agreed, it's a lovely shift on a 200 albeit they seem to have more issues on the 197/200 box than the 172/182 one. Renault gave a contribution towards repair on the inevitable synchro wear outside of their normal warranty.

[Jon_S_Rally]

thenortherner said:

I've owned many hot hatches over the years and the Clio 200 with Cup pack was without the best handling and entertaining.

Only let down by the fuel economy - 30 mpg on a run - and engine revving its nuts off at anything about 70 mph in 5th.

Oh and kangarooing from every junction no matter what I did to prevent it.

If the economy was bad in 5th, maybe you should have used 6th

If it was kangarooing that badly, I would think there would be a problem with it. My 197 seems fine to be honest. It can be a bit like that from cold, but running it on super unleaded seems to have all but eliminated it.

soad said:

What’s the gear change like in these?

Fine in my experience. Nicer than the Megane 265 I had.

CharlieGee said:

Anyone gone from a 182 to a 200 and much prefer the later car? I can normally see beyond appearances but I love how the 200 looks and have been trying to talk myself into it for a while. Doesn’t help that my 182 is silver either.

On a separate point I got an Elise 111S to sit alongside the 182 earlier this year and, whilst I’ve been enjoying it, what it has shown me is how good the 182 actually is. I don’t get that much more pleasure from a drive in the Lotus than the Clio.

I had a 172 Cup for four years, a Megane 265 (with Cup chassis) for a year, have done quite a few miles in a friend's 197 and have just bought a 197 for myself. They are a very different proposition to the 1*2 and, when I first drove one, I was a little disappointed, because it didn't have quite the same urgency and instant acceleration due to the increased weight. However, once you adjust, it's every bit as quick as the older car in my view and, if you come into one from a totally different car, the 197/200 would probably still feel pretty urgent thanks to the short gearing. The trade-off is worse fuel economy of course, but I have seen 33/34mpg out of mine, which I don't think is bad. I don't know what those that complain are expecting from a 1200kg, 190-odd-bhp 2.0-litre normally aspirated hatch to be honest. It's never going to do mega MPG.

The way they drive is different too. As the article says, the older car feels much more loose, while the later cars are very planted. While motoring journos will go on about adjustability, mobile rear ends and trail braking, who actually does that on a regular basis in the real world? On the shonky roads round my way, that adjustability and mobile rear end translates to a feeling of skipping across the road surface and often feeling nervous and like it wants to throw you into a hedge, while the later car feels planted and hugely confidence inspiring. Some people might like that nervousness, but I personally prefer the later car and would hustle one down the crappest B-road much quicker than I would a 1*2.

I think it very much comes down to personal preference as to which one you like the most. I adored my 172 Cup, it was probably my favourite of all the cars I have owned, even though it was among the cheapest but, when I recently found myself in the position of wanting a cheap car to run about in for a few months, buying another 1*2 didn't even cross my mind. They are more raw but, for a daily proposition, the 197/200 offers all of the thrills, but is bigger, has a better seating position, better gear shift, better comfort and is just a nicer car to live with. Even as a track car, I think I would probably still go down the 197/200 route now, given how cheap they are getting. I have actually just sold my rally car and am looking at what to replace it with and I am more likely to build a 197 than a 1*2. For me, it just gives you much more confidence to push and push.

Drekly said:

There is some truth to this. It took months to sell my absolutely immaculate 275 with Cup pack, super low miles in the best colour at a very, very keen price. The only thing it lacked was Recaros.

I think when it comes to Meganes, that last part is critical. When I bought my 265, I wouldn't even consider a car without Recaros and a lot of buyers are the same. On the used market, they seem to be very very option critical.

Leicester Loyal said:

I'd say the EP3 is more of a direct competitor to the 172 and 182 personally, just because they were released around the same time.

In reality, the Civic isn't really a competitor for the Clio at all, because it was a rival for the Megane, Focus etc etc. That being said, in used terms, they have become rivals for people, as they offer a similar package for a similar price.

Clio all day long for me though. The Civic does absolutely nothing for me.