RE: Litchfield adds 200hp to 992 Carrera 911
Discussion
The real Grey area, and one I disagree with, is people getting a car on PCP, tuning it up, then putting it back to standard just before they hand it back. The next owner then has the potential costs of something going wrong, as extra strain has been put on parts that shouldn't have had.
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I presume you’re not just singling out ‘owners’ who have a car on PCP?
I’m sure it’s endemic with many people who are lucky enough to buy outright, and sits right alongside ‘mileage correction’ (ahem!) as being part of the dark arts of ownership and subsequent sale of peoples pride and joy...
Out of interest I wonder how many owners will risk invalidating their warranty by having this remap? Because as sure as eggs are eggs, Porsche will seek to dismiss any warranty claim if 3rd party witchcraft has been exercised on their carefully developed car....
modeller said:
The Litchfield software, which reduces emphasis on emission control to maximise performance
Just hastens the day went this type of modification will be banned.
I'm assuming the OEM map passes emissions regs around the world and the modified one only passes UK MOT. I agree though that it's really stupid for Litchfield and PH to give the enviro-wieners the ammo.Just hastens the day went this type of modification will be banned.
k me.
fblm said:
Hands up if you went straight on autotrader to find the cheapest poverty spec manual 992!
Sadly us fans of three pedals and a stick are going to have to wait another few months to get their hands on a new 992. They're PDK-only at launch, which still account for the vast majority of sales. toys said:
seniorwibble said:
Anyone else read the graph as a 100bhp increase?
YepAnother point of interest in the article is where
this article said:
Interestingly, Litchfield told PH that both the Carrera and Carrera S share the same powertrain hardware, with the former model only losing out from the factory due to its digital settings, meaning bringing it into line with the S requires no extra work.
yet in the other PH article on the 992 Carrera published todaya different article said:
the S uses different turbines and compressors for its power gain
https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/porsche...Which is right?
untakenname said:
I also misread the graph at first, should use more contrasting colours.
200hp freed up from just a remap with no supporting mods needed is really poor form from Porsche imo as they are treating their customers as mugs.
Treating them as mugs is a bit far. I'm sure Porsche value their customers greatly, however, what they and most manufacturers do is develop and manufacture a car to a cost. To do that they build in commonality across a range. This reduces complexity and reduces development costs. Having multiple iterations of engine spec will greatly add to their development costs (running into the millions) not to mention added complications of build configuration, supply and inevitable warranty issues. All of which can be reduced if only one spec exists.200hp freed up from just a remap with no supporting mods needed is really poor form from Porsche imo as they are treating their customers as mugs.
Volvo are a great example of this having only two major platforms of which their entire range is based. Do Volvo customers feel mugged off? Doubtful.
For an engine specific example; Jaguar did this really well with the AJ126 and AJ133 units. The AJ133 motor (5.0 V8) carried over ~70% of its engine components into the later developed AJ126 (3.0 V6). Even the cylinder block! Yes it really did have 2 cylinders missing. Albeit the casting was different to account for this but the design was carried over as the V8 did all the development. Not to say there wasn't any V6 R&D, there was.
What Porsche may have done (I don't actually know) is to build an engine that is capable and calibrate EMS software to a lower spec power output. Of course this all fits under the "emissions control" banner which will absolutely be a factor but not a 200bhp factor. The Turbo S model passes the same emissions tests for all that power after all. For the OEM's, having a lower spec calibration is way more cost effective than having 2 engine specs. They simply want one spec of engine that can be placed lower in the range.
I work for an major OEM so have insider knowledge
Yes Porsche is always 'overengineered' in the sense that you can do 50 hard launches and drive it on the track without it budging... Trade that for some temporary extra boost, sure it's possible but it's not the same as a 'real' Turbo (S), I'm sure. When it comes.
Yes Porsche Volvo, VW, BMW and also Porsche etc may use the same block and general architecture for different powered versions, but many details can differ on the lower powered version of which mere mortals or even tuners can't tell unless they have pulled apart both to the last bolt, not even that suffices. Spare part catalogues are not necessarily a help as they may indeed only list the highest spec version to save cost.
This can be stuff such as lower alloy grade for the pistons, valves, crankaxle, injectors etc inside the engine. Also auxiliaries may have a cheaper spec that isn't instantly apparent by just looking under the hood. Fuel, oil, and water pumps, coolers, turbines, bearings, the list goes on. Can be completely invisible things, like higher spec on the balancing of the turbos, different tolerances of valve guides or bores etc.
Just to say I'm very sceptical when someone claims 'it's the same engine'...
Yes Porsche Volvo, VW, BMW and also Porsche etc may use the same block and general architecture for different powered versions, but many details can differ on the lower powered version of which mere mortals or even tuners can't tell unless they have pulled apart both to the last bolt, not even that suffices. Spare part catalogues are not necessarily a help as they may indeed only list the highest spec version to save cost.
This can be stuff such as lower alloy grade for the pistons, valves, crankaxle, injectors etc inside the engine. Also auxiliaries may have a cheaper spec that isn't instantly apparent by just looking under the hood. Fuel, oil, and water pumps, coolers, turbines, bearings, the list goes on. Can be completely invisible things, like higher spec on the balancing of the turbos, different tolerances of valve guides or bores etc.
Just to say I'm very sceptical when someone claims 'it's the same engine'...
Edited by Onehp on Thursday 29th August 15:26
toys said:
After reading that the non-S 992 Carrera (380 bhp) has smaller turbos than the S (445 bhp) I don't believe for one second that the non-S can also be mapped to 580 bhp. The two models are clearly mechanically different - contrary to the assertion in the article.
It looks like Litchfield have clarified the press release - https://www.motor1.com/news/367403/porsche-992-car...The 992 Carrera has smaller turbos so won't deliver the 580bhp the 992 Carrear S does.
Litchfied have tuned the smaller turbo engine on the 991 Carrera T with great results as PH told last year - https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/litchfi...
Griffgrog said:
It looks like Litchfield have clarified the press release - https://www.motor1.com/news/367403/porsche-992-car...
The 992 Carrera has smaller turbos so won't deliver the 580bhp the 992 Carrear S does.
Litchfied have tuned the smaller turbo engine on the 991 Carrera T with great results as PH told last year - https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/litchfi...
Makes much more sense now, but Litchfield really shouldn't have made such a rash assumption in their press release. Can the title of the article be corrected to 'Litchfield adds 100hp to 992 Carrera S' The 992 Carrera has smaller turbos so won't deliver the 580bhp the 992 Carrear S does.
Litchfied have tuned the smaller turbo engine on the 991 Carrera T with great results as PH told last year - https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/litchfi...
toys said:
Makes much more sense now, but Litchfield really shouldn't have made such a rash assumption in their press release. Can the title of the article be corrected to 'Litchfield adds 100hp to 992 Carrera S'
As per my previous post, it does indeed add to my prejudice that some 'people' underbuild their assumptions that an engine is 'the same' extremely loosely...Edited by Onehp on Thursday 29th August 21:30
toys said:
Griffgrog said:
It looks like Litchfield have clarified the press release - https://www.motor1.com/news/367403/porsche-992-car...
The 992 Carrera has smaller turbos so won't deliver the 580bhp the 992 Carrear S does.
Litchfied have tuned the smaller turbo engine on the 991 Carrera T with great results as PH told last year - https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/litchfi...
Makes much more sense now, but Litchfield really shouldn't have made such a rash assumption in their press release. Can the title of the article be corrected to 'Litchfield adds 100hp to 992 Carrera S' The 992 Carrera has smaller turbos so won't deliver the 580bhp the 992 Carrear S does.
Litchfied have tuned the smaller turbo engine on the 991 Carrera T with great results as PH told last year - https://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-driven/litchfi...
TX.
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