RE: Porsche Taycan | Official reveal!
Discussion
Any thread on electric cars just turns into a list of objections. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy this. Nobody is saying they are stopping production of their ICE cars imminently and as for it being a rich mans toy well it’s a Porsche there are not many average worker types that can afford to buy any Porsche brand new once you step outside the PH bubble.
I think it’s plainly obvious that electric cars have their supporters and their haters and both sides come up with the most absurd arguments to try and make out they are right. Neither of you are right. We live in a free world and can make our own choices. Anyone living in that world would look at one and assess it against their own needs. So if they are doing 800 mile trips daily in the U.K. they would discount it for instance. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. It’s a choice and surely the more choice the better right?
I think it’s plainly obvious that electric cars have their supporters and their haters and both sides come up with the most absurd arguments to try and make out they are right. Neither of you are right. We live in a free world and can make our own choices. Anyone living in that world would look at one and assess it against their own needs. So if they are doing 800 mile trips daily in the U.K. they would discount it for instance. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. It’s a choice and surely the more choice the better right?
Gandahar said:
Top model has 750bhp and Porsche promising that after 8 years it will have 70% or 525bhp at least. That's still some drop off though. So 3rd or 4th owner will have reduced performance and then potentially big battery replacement bill I guess.
Could make them cheap to buy though around that time.
That's not how it works. Could make them cheap to buy though around that time.
RobDickinson said:
Gandahar said:
Top model has 750bhp and Porsche promising that after 8 years it will have 70% or 525bhp at least. That's still some drop off though. So 3rd or 4th owner will have reduced performance and then potentially big battery replacement bill I guess.
Could make them cheap to buy though around that time.
That's not how it works. Could make them cheap to buy though around that time.
and if tesla's are anything to go by the majority of owners will not see the SoC drop below 90% of the first 100k miles
craigjm said:
Any thread on electric cars just turns into a list of objections. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy this. Nobody is saying they are stopping production of their ICE cars imminently and as for it being a rich mans toy well it’s a Porsche there are not many average worker types that can afford to buy any Porsche brand new once you step outside the PH bubble.
I think it’s plainly obvious that electric cars have their supporters and their haters and both sides come up with the most absurd arguments to try and make out they are right. Neither of you are right. We live in a free world and can make our own choices. Anyone living in that world would look at one and assess it against their own needs. So if they are doing 800 mile trips daily in the U.K. they would discount it for instance. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. It’s a choice and surely the more choice the better right?
+1...I think it’s plainly obvious that electric cars have their supporters and their haters and both sides come up with the most absurd arguments to try and make out they are right. Neither of you are right. We live in a free world and can make our own choices. Anyone living in that world would look at one and assess it against their own needs. So if they are doing 800 mile trips daily in the U.K. they would discount it for instance. Doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. It’s a choice and surely the more choice the better right?
The sooner people move over to EVs for their regular daily transport, the sooner we start saving the fossil fuels for use in our 'nice' cars.
M
Max_Torque said:
Given that a normal Panamera has a kerb weight of "1,770–2,055 kg" according to Wiki, i don't see the problem with this car, and of course, having a fully bi-directional powertrain, in terms of economy it only actually weighs 630 kg equivalent.
Lets face it:
1) it's fast as it needs to be (far faster than anyone needs), and faster than the equivalent ICE model
2) it looks like the other large porsches (personal taste it you like or dislike those looks)
3) it'll be far cheaper to run than an equivalent performance porsche
4) it'll be far cheaper to service and look after due to a lack of moving parts
5) You'll be able to drive it in city centres
6) pretty much 100% if the people who can afford a £130k car will have a drive and hence can get a personal charger installed, and 250 miles range is plenty when you car starts every day with a full "tank"
But I wouldn't call it a pure sports car, in the same way as i wouldn't call the Panamera a pure sports car either.......
It’ll also be screwed together well and probably go round corners in contrast to the Tesla S which seems to be built and designed to US 1970s standards. Lets face it:
1) it's fast as it needs to be (far faster than anyone needs), and faster than the equivalent ICE model
2) it looks like the other large porsches (personal taste it you like or dislike those looks)
3) it'll be far cheaper to run than an equivalent performance porsche
4) it'll be far cheaper to service and look after due to a lack of moving parts
5) You'll be able to drive it in city centres
6) pretty much 100% if the people who can afford a £130k car will have a drive and hence can get a personal charger installed, and 250 miles range is plenty when you car starts every day with a full "tank"
But I wouldn't call it a pure sports car, in the same way as i wouldn't call the Panamera a pure sports car either.......
While the true future of EVs is as smaller, cheaper urban/suburban cars this looks like a rather lovely toy if you want to throw some money at a premium EV that isn’t an SUV.
DonkeyApple said:
While the true future of EVs is as smaller, cheaper urban/suburban cars this looks like a rather lovely toy if you want to throw some money at a premium EV that isn’t an SUV.
i suspect the future of EVs is going to be extremely varied, one of the beauties of the low profile roller skate platform is it allows for designs you just cant do with an ICE car. We should get some really interesting choices, VW's ID buzz and ID Buggy are a great start.and many EVs will be RWD, yay!
the model 3 RWD with traction disabled looks great fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGfd-xkBXs0
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Thursday 5th September 09:56
EVs just got interesting. It's way out of my price range but it's great to see the mainstream manufacturers having an answer for Tesla. My only experience of Teslas is sitting in the back of one as a taxi. Let's just say I wouldn't be looking at picking up a second hand one if the tatty, tired, worn out interior was anything to go by. Even new, Tesla interiors look absolute s
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te.Dave Hedgehog said:
DonkeyApple said:
While the true future of EVs is as smaller, cheaper urban/suburban cars this looks like a rather lovely toy if you want to throw some money at a premium EV that isn’t an SUV.
i suspect the future of EVs is going to be extremely varied, one of the beauties of the low profile roller skate platform is it allows for designs you just cant do with an ICE car. We should get some really interesting choices, VW's ID buzz and ID Buggy are a great start.and many EVs will be RWD, yay!
the model 3 RWD with traction disabled looks great fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XGfd-xkBXs0
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Thursday 5th September 09:56
I watched a friend try and take their S up Prescott over the summer but it just kept understeering off. I’d be genuinely surprised if this Porsche had the same problem.
Gandahar said:
Top model has 750bhp and Porsche promising that after 8 years it will have 70% or 525bhp at least. That's still some drop off though. So 3rd or 4th owner will have reduced performance and then potentially big battery replacement bill I guess.
Could make them cheap to buy though around that time.
The "drop off" is in total energy storage in the battery, nothing to do with power! Effectively, it would be the same as buying a new car that had a 100 litre fuel tank, and after 100,000 miles, that fuel thank had shrunk to 70 litres. For an battery it's called State of Charge (SoC) and a 100% SoC is a new battery, and an old battery has say70% SoC by comparison. So, a 100 kWh (<< note units of energy, not power, Kilo-Watt-Hours) battery at 100% SoC has 100 kWh, and 70 kWh at 70% SoC.Could make them cheap to buy though around that time.
The power capablity of the battery is much more complex, because it has more to do with internal resistance than energy storage capacity, and is highly temperature dependant. However, typically, i'd still expect the full power capability to be maintained down to around 70% SoC, so your 100,000 mile EV is just as fast as it was when new, you just can't drive as far on a single charge.
And as people have noted, the OEs are very conservative in repect to battery aging. So far, most EVs have seen nothing like the potential maximum ageing rates. Typically, 100,000 mile cars are only loosing 5 to 8 % SoC.
And of course regarding expense, remind me what a 100,000 mile 10 year old Panamera is worth compared to it's new price? Looking in the classified, it looks to be in the low 20k region. The cost of a refurbished battery, which effectively restores the powertrain to "like new" is in-significant in comparison! In fact, high mileage EVs are very likely to be worth significantly more than high mileage ICEs because there is less to wear out, what does wear out if easily changed (battery swap) and crucially, anyone can tell exactly how "worn" the car they are buying actually is by simply pressing a few buttons on the dash!
Incredible.cerb4.5lee said:
Max_Torque said:
But I wouldn't call it a pure sports car, in the same way as i wouldn't call the Panamera a pure sports car either.......
I'd call it a very heavy GT that you actually can't use as a true GT...because you can't go that far in it. I'm quite confused by it in fairness, it is too heavy to be called sporty and it lacks range to be called a GT...so what actually is it? Apart from ugly and misbadged.
simonbamg said:
dvs_dave said:
The bottom one is the production version 
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