RE: Porsche Taycan | Official reveal!
Discussion
Pumpsmynads said:
RacerMike said:
You could go most places in the Uk on a single charge, and there are hundreds of high power 350kW Ionity chargers all over Europe already that will charge this to 80% from 5% in 20mins.
To put it into perspective, I drove from the ‘Ring to Stuttgart in an I Pace recently. I stopped once for a piss near Frankfurt at a 100kW charger. It took my 30s to start charging, 15mins to go into McDonalds, use their facilities and get a coffee for me and my colleague. I then walked outside to the car with said coffee, waited for 5 mins as my colleague was queuing in a line of cars at the petrol station to refuel our hire car and then took it off charge. In that time, the car had done from 40% to 69%. I needed a total of 30% for the rest of my journey.
Travelling distances with a modern EV really isn’t very taxing.
That’s a poor example mate. To put it into perspective, I drove from the ‘Ring to Stuttgart in an I Pace recently. I stopped once for a piss near Frankfurt at a 100kW charger. It took my 30s to start charging, 15mins to go into McDonalds, use their facilities and get a coffee for me and my colleague. I then walked outside to the car with said coffee, waited for 5 mins as my colleague was queuing in a line of cars at the petrol station to refuel our hire car and then took it off charge. In that time, the car had done from 40% to 69%. I needed a total of 30% for the rest of my journey.
Travelling distances with a modern EV really isn’t very taxing.
You state it will charge 75% in 20 minutes by giving an example of where it charges 29% in the same time.
Like most things battery related lots of figures are based on perfect conditions/lies.
1. Porsche Taycan can do 75% charge in 22.5 minutes. It has a maximum charging rate of 270kW from a compatible charger
2. An I Pace has a maximum charge rate of 100kW....it's considerably slower at charging on DC
3. I provided a real world example of how even with a 'slower' rate of charging, it put more than enough energy into the battery in the time it took me to go to the loo, buy a coffee and wait for an ICE car to be re-fuelled than I needed.
Conclusion:
Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
Hicksy said:
mstrbkr said:
Pricing is on the Porsche website.
£116000 for the Turbo and £139000 for the Turbo S.
Gulp.
Porsche Dealers also want you to agree to a 10% Brexit Surcharge !£116000 for the Turbo and £139000 for the Turbo S.
Gulp.
camel_landy said:
RacerMike said:
Conclusion:
Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
^^^ This...Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
M
camel_landy said:
RacerMike said:
Conclusion:
Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
^^^ This...Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
M
DonkeyApple said:
camel_landy said:
RacerMike said:
Conclusion:
Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
^^^ This...Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
M
RacerMike said:
Eh?! To summarise my post as you clearly didn't read it properly.
1. Porsche Taycan can do 75% charge in 22.5 minutes. It has a maximum charging rate of 270kW from a compatible charger
2. An I Pace has a maximum charge rate of 100kW....it's considerably slower at charging on DC
3. I provided a real world example of how even with a 'slower' rate of charging, it put more than enough energy into the battery in the time it took me to go to the loo, buy a coffee and wait for an ICE car to be re-fuelled than I needed.
Conclusion:
Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
I agree with this. As a real-world example using an ICE car, I travelled from Luxembourg to the Austrian Osttirol this summer and didn't really plan our stops. It was a vague 'leave early, grab a quick breakfast somewhere, stop for lunch somewhere around Ulm, aim to get to the hotel before 7pm'.1. Porsche Taycan can do 75% charge in 22.5 minutes. It has a maximum charging rate of 270kW from a compatible charger
2. An I Pace has a maximum charge rate of 100kW....it's considerably slower at charging on DC
3. I provided a real world example of how even with a 'slower' rate of charging, it put more than enough energy into the battery in the time it took me to go to the loo, buy a coffee and wait for an ICE car to be re-fuelled than I needed.
Conclusion:
Charging the Taycan with either the 150kW or 270kW DC chargers will mean that in practice, you will take longer to have a wee or buy a coffee than it will take for the car to go from nearly empty to nearly full.
Looking back at the journey we actually did this
Lux-Zweibrucken (134km) stop for breakfast, maybe 45 mins
Zweibrucken-Ulm (261km) stop for lunch, 1 hr
Ulm-some services south of Munich (198km) stop for fuel and a leak, 15 mins
Rastplatz-imbiss in the Alps (100km) ice cream, 30 mins
Imbiss-destination (100km)
Now this was, as I said, without much planning but with the needs and wants of a family to consider, and even though driving a diesel with a nominal maximum 6-700km range so I didn't have range to worry about stopping every 2-300km, I did only one stint over 200km. Even using these stops, this trip would just about be do-able today with a car like the Taycan...assuming charger availability.
Now there were actually free chargers just about everywhere I stopped and if of course if I was driving a BEV I would have to plan the route a little more carefully, but I realised there's nothing that would've stopping me doing this trip today in a decent electric car.
Now, dashing to Frankfurt (250km) twice a week for business? No chance would a BEV be suitable for this use case in 2019. It's a non-stop trip, you just want to get there as quickly as possible, the traffic varies from dreadful to awful and you often have to switch routes to avoid problems which can add 30-50km. Even the shortest route is pretty close to the maximum range for a lot of BEVs and there's nothing that would screw your day up more than sitting in traffic watching your battery gauge drop and knowing that you'd need to budget 30-40 mins to leave the autobahn, find a charger and sit there for 20 long minutes. With ICE I just need to make sure there's at least half a tank before I set off and job done.
I'd reckon a BEV is a realistic option for at least 80% of users, but probably 80% of them have convinced themselves that they are somehow super hardcore long-range drivers and could never get by with a battery vehicle, even though they probably only do >200km twice a year.
Edit: PBCD driving gods that regularly cross continents at an average of 180km/h need not reply
Edited by loudlashadjuster on Thursday 5th September 10:58
loudlashadjuster said:
Now, dashing to Frankfurt (250km) twice a week for business? No chance would a BEV be suitable for this use case in 2019. It's a non-stop trip, you just want to get there as quickly as possible, the traffic varies from dreadful to awful and you often have to switch routes to avoid problems which can add 30-50km. Even the shortest route is pretty close to the maximum range for a lot of BEVs and there's nothing that would screw your day up more than sitting in traffic watching your battery gauge drop and knowing that you'd need to budget 30-40 mins to leave the autobahn, find a charger and sit there for 20 long minutes. With ICE I just need to make sure there's at least half a tank before I set off and job done.
I'd reckon a BEV is a realistic option for at least 80% of users, but probably 80% of them have convinced themselves that they are somehow super hardcore long-range drivers and could never get by with a battery vehicle, even though they probably only do >200km twice a year.
Edit: PBCD driving gods that regularly cross continents at an average of 180km/h need not reply
You’d happily get 250km out of an I Pace doing 150kph. And you’d get 300 plus if stuck to 130.I'd reckon a BEV is a realistic option for at least 80% of users, but probably 80% of them have convinced themselves that they are somehow super hardcore long-range drivers and could never get by with a battery vehicle, even though they probably only do >200km twice a year.
Edit: PBCD driving gods that regularly cross continents at an average of 180km/h need not reply
Also, EVs use very little charge stuck in traffic. The aircon draws about 2kW/h and the heater around 5kW/h in winter. You’d have to be stuck in traffic for a very very long time to run out. And crawling traffic will mean you get much better Range. Sustained high speed is what decreases efficiency in an EV.
There’s also loads of ultrafast chargers around Frankfurt.
As I said in my earlier post, this trip was Nürburgring to just outside Stuttgart which was 320km. I could have done it in one charge and got there with 5% whilst averaging 100kph (largely due to traffic). Sure I didn’t go flat out on the derestricted bits, but I think it only ended up taking 30mins longer than the journey in the opposite direction in the hire car, and I actually stopped out of necessity for my own bladder rather than for the car!
Turbo?
Why?
Suddenly my brain is full of lag. I’m waiting and waiting for a reason and nothing is happening.
Is there some internal that builds up a charge and suddenly deploys?
Why harken back to a bygone era that you’ve so proudly turned your back on?
Is it a selling point? Do I really want to buy a Porsche Turbo because it doesn’t have a turbo?
Why?
Suddenly my brain is full of lag. I’m waiting and waiting for a reason and nothing is happening.
Is there some internal that builds up a charge and suddenly deploys?
Why harken back to a bygone era that you’ve so proudly turned your back on?
Is it a selling point? Do I really want to buy a Porsche Turbo because it doesn’t have a turbo?
another 3 points said:
Turbo?
Why?
Suddenly my brain is full of lag. I’m waiting and waiting for a reason and nothing is happening.
Is there some internal that builds up a charge and suddenly deploys?
Why harken back to a bygone era that you’ve so proudly turned your back on?
Is it a selling point? Do I really want to buy a Porsche Turbo because it doesn’t have a turbo?
Really, have a think about it. Porsche has had the same trim/powertrain levels for the last 20+ years. From top to bottom:Why?
Suddenly my brain is full of lag. I’m waiting and waiting for a reason and nothing is happening.
Is there some internal that builds up a charge and suddenly deploys?
Why harken back to a bygone era that you’ve so proudly turned your back on?
Is it a selling point? Do I really want to buy a Porsche Turbo because it doesn’t have a turbo?
Turbo S
Turbo
Carrera GTS
Carrera S (2S, 4S)
Carrera T
Carrera
And then the specials:
GT2/RS
GT3/RS/Spyder
GT4/Spyder
This is just the same thing. They're the top models being revealed first - and rightly or wrongly - they've stuck to what they know. It is Porsche afterall. A GTS will come along later.
Life-long Porsche ‘fanboi’ here, which is why the following is difficult to write: if anything, this shows that Tesla were unexpectedly ahead of the curve in their cars, and selling them at discounted prices. The Porsche is significantly better-looking, and appears to be the superior car, but the law of diminishing returns is in full effect at a 40% premium over the top Model S.
Unless one is regularly prone to doing 26 consecutive full-bore starts, or finds taking a 2.3 tonne saloon on a track day to be the given thing, I don’t see how the premium can be justified. And the stratospheric price which (realistically) puts it out of the range of most car buyers does nothing to progress the cause for electric cars, other than the potential halo effect of what Porsche have achieved. The quality improvements over the (admittedly appalling) Teslas don’t appear to me to be the USP they’re being made out as, as the reality of Tesla ownership has done nothing to diminish either the desirability or sales of those cars.
As a Luddite enthusiast, I detest the idea of a future with electric cars, as I did the move from analogue to digital photography, and the obsolescence of physical media for music; I was hoping that Porsche might at least help sway me, and am sad to say they haven’t. Ah well.
Unless one is regularly prone to doing 26 consecutive full-bore starts, or finds taking a 2.3 tonne saloon on a track day to be the given thing, I don’t see how the premium can be justified. And the stratospheric price which (realistically) puts it out of the range of most car buyers does nothing to progress the cause for electric cars, other than the potential halo effect of what Porsche have achieved. The quality improvements over the (admittedly appalling) Teslas don’t appear to me to be the USP they’re being made out as, as the reality of Tesla ownership has done nothing to diminish either the desirability or sales of those cars.
As a Luddite enthusiast, I detest the idea of a future with electric cars, as I did the move from analogue to digital photography, and the obsolescence of physical media for music; I was hoping that Porsche might at least help sway me, and am sad to say they haven’t. Ah well.
Nimerino said:
Life-long Porsche ‘fanboi’ here, which is why the following is difficult to write: if anything, this shows that Tesla were unexpectedly ahead of the curve in their cars, and selling them at discounted prices. The Porsche is significantly better-looking, and appears to be the superior car, but the law of diminishing returns is in full effect at a 40% premium over the top Model S.
Unless one is regularly prone to doing 26 consecutive full-bore starts, or finds taking a 2.3 tonne saloon on a track day to be the given thing, I don’t see how the premium can be justified. And the stratospheric price which (realistically) puts it out of the range of most car buyers does nothing to progress the cause for electric cars, other than the potential halo effect of what Porsche have achieved. The quality improvements over the (admittedly appalling) Teslas don’t appear to me to be the USP they’re being made out as, as the reality of Tesla ownership has done nothing to diminish either the desirability or sales of those cars.
As a Luddite enthusiast, I detest the idea of a future with electric cars, as I did the move from analogue to digital photography, and the obsolescence of physical media for music; I was hoping that Porsche might at least help sway me, and am sad to say they haven’t. Ah well.
Takes a bit of understanding about EVs really. You’re right that 24 consecutive starts is irrelevant, but it shows that there isn’t performance drop off when you drive it hard. In a Model S, enthusiastic driving on a B road will see you loose about 25% of the performance after only a mile or so. It’s really hard to drive them when any enthusiasm, and they feel like they’re really on the edge of their physical design limits.Unless one is regularly prone to doing 26 consecutive full-bore starts, or finds taking a 2.3 tonne saloon on a track day to be the given thing, I don’t see how the premium can be justified. And the stratospheric price which (realistically) puts it out of the range of most car buyers does nothing to progress the cause for electric cars, other than the potential halo effect of what Porsche have achieved. The quality improvements over the (admittedly appalling) Teslas don’t appear to me to be the USP they’re being made out as, as the reality of Tesla ownership has done nothing to diminish either the desirability or sales of those cars.
As a Luddite enthusiast, I detest the idea of a future with electric cars, as I did the move from analogue to digital photography, and the obsolescence of physical media for music; I was hoping that Porsche might at least help sway me, and am sad to say they haven’t. Ah well.
Nimerino said:
Life-long Porsche ‘fanboi’ here, which is why the following is difficult to write: if anything, this shows that Tesla were unexpectedly ahead of the curve in their cars, and selling them at discounted prices. The Porsche is significantly better-looking, and appears to be the superior car, but the law of diminishing returns is in full effect at a 40% premium over the top Model S.
Unless one is regularly prone to doing 26 consecutive full-bore starts, or finds taking a 2.3 tonne saloon on a track day to be the given thing, I don’t see how the premium can be justified. And the stratospheric price which (realistically) puts it out of the range of most car buyers does nothing to progress the cause for electric cars, other than the potential halo effect of what Porsche have achieved. The quality improvements over the (admittedly appalling) Teslas don’t appear to me to be the USP they’re being made out as, as the reality of Tesla ownership has done nothing to diminish either the desirability or sales of those cars.
As a Luddite enthusiast, I detest the idea of a future with electric cars, as I did the move from analogue to digital photography, and the obsolescence of physical media for music; I was hoping that Porsche might at least help sway me, and am sad to say they haven’t. Ah well.
My thoughts exactly. People should buy the car for their needs. I commend Porsche for sticking with something "new" in the EV world with their 800V system, but like you said, a Tesla Model S Performance has the same (one time) performance for half the price, and it isn't half the car. And like you said, I can't really see the point of dragging such a heavy car to the track when there are much better cars for that purpose, so what becomes it's USP? Unless one is regularly prone to doing 26 consecutive full-bore starts, or finds taking a 2.3 tonne saloon on a track day to be the given thing, I don’t see how the premium can be justified. And the stratospheric price which (realistically) puts it out of the range of most car buyers does nothing to progress the cause for electric cars, other than the potential halo effect of what Porsche have achieved. The quality improvements over the (admittedly appalling) Teslas don’t appear to me to be the USP they’re being made out as, as the reality of Tesla ownership has done nothing to diminish either the desirability or sales of those cars.
As a Luddite enthusiast, I detest the idea of a future with electric cars, as I did the move from analogue to digital photography, and the obsolescence of physical media for music; I was hoping that Porsche might at least help sway me, and am sad to say they haven’t. Ah well.
I understand Porsches Motorsport heritage and pedigree, but I suspect the biggest selling point will be the better cabin and build quality, but I wonder if Porsche got the marketing a bit wrong with releasing the 2 most expensive models in the range rather than the 2 base models at the rumoured 80k-ish price point. I reckon a lot of deposit holders were looking into a cheap-ish way into a Porsche badged car and got quite a surprise with a hefty post-option sell-price.
Recently had a go in a Tesla Model S Performance and personally didn't see the hate for it's cabin and build quality. To me it was a brilliant car with a nice cabin, sick-inducing performance with a range yet to be beaten by other manufacturers. Super quite ride that was quite nice to pilot.
Regards
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