RE: Porsche 718s may return to flat-six power...

[Fresh Prince]

Mr_Sukebe said:

I was sure that Porsche stated that the reason for moving to the 4 cylinder unit, was because a 6 wouldn't fit.
Surely that wasn't just marketing BS?

ISTR it being that 6-cyl + turbo wouldn't fit without extensive re-engineering. So it was either 6-cyl normally aspirated, or 4-cyl + turbo gubbins.

[Blink982]

I was just going to say the same thing, they said the 991.2 3.0 F6T wouldn't fit.

My 2.0 718 will be due for replacement in about 12 months or so, so I guess we'll see what is available then. I haven't ruled out the alpine but I'm still not sold on the looks. I first saw it at Geneva and have now seen a few on the road and the front is fugly as hell...... When I buy a car I love to be able to look back at it in the car park. The Alpine does nothing for me looks wise.

[MrOrange]

Miserablegit said:

I thought with the taycan they could get around emissions issues for the rest of the range as they now had one “low emission at point of use” vehicle.

I think you might be missing the somewhat bigger (and immediate) picture. Pure ICE cars are fast becoming a footnote in history. Low volume sports cars might hang on for a bit longer but Porsche is a mass-market volume producer these days, hence Taycan and all the new hybrid stuff.

“Proper” hybridisation will see most likely see tiny (or at least smaller) turbo-charged engines boosted by electric motors. Lighter engine + small motor + 50 mile range battery pack might only add 200kgs over a 3.2litre F6 powered car, also the CoG will be much lower to the ground so you may not feel the weight, it might actually create a better ride. Most of the current hybrids are just modified ICE cars and heavily compromised.

[Carl_Manchester]

Nerdherder said:

Ps interesting to read that the 718 is doing so well in China.

also doing well in china are gaudy £800 bright red, heavily branded trainers and £1200 cardigans with gold leaf animal pictures drawn on them which say ‘GUCCI’.

[dobly]

MrOrange said:

I think you might be missing the somewhat bigger (and immediate) picture. Pure ICE cars are fast becoming a footnote in history. Low volume sports cars might hang on for a bit longer but Porsche is a mass-market volume producer these days, hence Taycan and all the new hybrid stuff.

“Proper” hybridisation will see most likely see tiny (or at least smaller) turbo-charged engines boosted by electric motors. Lighter engine + small motor + 50 mile range battery pack might only add 200kgs over a 3.2litre F6 powered car, also the CoG will be much lower to the ground so you may not feel the weight, it might actually create a better ride. Most of the current hybrids are just modified ICE cars and heavily compromised.

So Porsche are going down a similar route to Honda's NSX?

[Nerdherder]

Carl_Manchester said:

Nerdherder said:

Ps interesting to read that the 718 is doing so well in China.

also doing well in china are gaudy £800 bright red, heavily branded trainers and £1200 cardigans with gold leaf animal pictures drawn on them which say ‘GUCCI’.

Thank you for this enlightening insight.

[Nerdherder]

dobly said:

MrOrange said:

I think you might be missing the somewhat bigger (and immediate) picture. Pure ICE cars are fast becoming a footnote in history. Low volume sports cars might hang on for a bit longer but Porsche is a mass-market volume producer these days, hence Taycan and all the new hybrid stuff.

“Proper” hybridisation will see most likely see tiny (or at least smaller) turbo-charged engines boosted by electric motors. Lighter engine + small motor + 50 mile range battery pack might only add 200kgs over a 3.2litre F6 powered car, also the CoG will be much lower to the ground so you may not feel the weight, it might actually create a better ride. Most of the current hybrids are just modified ICE cars and heavily compromised.

So Porsche are going down a similar route to Honda's NSX?

They will apply what they've learned from the 918 downstream in the range.

[PorkRind]

Might as well just go derve, or electric and really ruin it.

[GTEYE]

PorkRind said:

Might as well just go derve, or electric and really ruin it.

One thing to bear in mind is the dates for bans on new ICE cars, the UK being 2040 in line with Germany.

But.....the UK has one of the longest target dates. Other countries it’s happening much sooner..e.g. Ireland, France, Belgium, NL its 2030 and for Norway it’s 2025!!

This is not really reported in the UK, but it’s time to wake up, this change is happening, and it’s happening soon.

An interesting doc here, the substance of which is the German car Industry has been too slow in reacting.

https://youtu.be/hcXjVxaKzv4

Edited by GTEYE on Friday 6th September 05:56

[nickfrog]

GTEYE said:

But.....the UK has one of the longest target dates. Other countries it’s happening much sooner..e.g. Ireland, France, Belgium, NL its 2030 and for Norway it’s 2025!!

I think total new ICE ban in France is 2040.

[Miserablegit]

MrOrange said:

I think you might be missing the somewhat bigger (and immediate) picture. Pure ICE cars are fast becoming a footnote in history. Low volume sports cars might hang on for a bit longer but Porsche is a mass-market volume producer these days, hence Taycan and all the new hybrid stuff.

“Proper” hybridisation will see most likely see tiny (or at least smaller) turbo-charged engines boosted by electric motors. Lighter engine + small motor + 50 mile range battery pack might only add 200kgs over a 3.2litre F6 powered car, also the CoG will be much lower to the ground so you may not feel the weight, it might actually create a better ride. Most of the current hybrids are just modified ICE cars and heavily compromised.

They are not yet a footnote in history.
With Porsche about due for a replacement cayster platform next year (first 8 years, second 7 years, third gen only lasted 4 years) there is plenty of time to build another two models and sell them well before the hybrid requirement kicks in.
Problem with EV is that the motors weigh the same whether it’s a short range or long range and battery energy density is still not great. Ok so COG is low as it is under your feet but I’d rather not have the additional 300kg+ to move around.

[RaineyDays]

So if Porsche goes back to the flat 6, does that mean the current flat 4 will;

A) nose dive in price

B) suddenly become a desired collectible

[130R]

Adding the weight of a hybrid system would be absolutely stupid. Terrible idea.

[Tim bo]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

sasha320 said:

Vee12V said:

Just the typical OPC tts, I'm sure. I once went to my local OPC to inform about a GT3, but left quite quickly after having being treated like a piece of trash, despite having rolled up in something substantially more expensive and rare. I'm not sure who these idiots sell to, but they'll never see my money. That's for sure.

Out of interest what did you drive that didn’t turn the salesmen's head?

To your question, I agree, who are they selling to if someone expressing an interest in an expensive car is not treated with a bit of respect?

I had an entirely different experience, at a main Porsche delaer in West London. Treated fantastically throughout, and I felt like a very valued customer during the entire experience. And this was just buying a 718CS, not something more expensive up the line.

Edited by Tim bo on Friday 6th September 08:00

[Alan Weaver]

Interesting comments regarding sales service. I was interested in a 918S and a major Porsche dealer near a well known race track would not even allow me a test drive as "we don't have a car in a colour your are interested in"!!!! They were barely bothered to take my details down and so uninterested in the 50k that I had to spend it was amazing.
I continued to look for the car I wanted on Piston Heads and after several months found one at the other end of the country in Exeter. The difference in attitude and service there was incredible, and not less than you would actually want.
Richard Hannaford at Exeter could not have been more helpful and accommodating. He reserved the car for me, gave me a great test drive and ultimately sold me a fantastically specced Guards Red 918S.
I have driven the 718 at a Porsche Experience day and while the torque is impressive I prefer the 6 cylinder engine in the 918. Even though my car is over 4 years old I have no intention of replacing it with a 4 cylinder. That may change if they bring out a new 718 with a 6 cylinder and to be honest we now have so much technology in cars these days I am not going to be concerned about having a hybrid system, as long as the weight is kept under control.
The 918 / 718 may not be the fastest car, and it is obvious that 315hp may be considered to rather low now that every new car comes out with ever increasing horse power. However for me it is all about handing, road holding and have a car that you can place accurately and comfortably on the roads, which do not ever grow in size or become less congested.
I am certainly a fan or Porsche and I hope that the company continues to take note of customer comments and demands.

[NJJ]

The pinnacle of the Boxster/Cayman range will always be the 981 whatever Porsche decide to do in the future. There is just something about the last of the line NA engines from manufacturers, a bit like Ferrari with the 458 or Mercedes/AMG with the last of the 6.3 V8s. Hybrid/turbo/electrification or whatever they decide to do will not match the all round greatness and character of those previous models.

[browngt3]

Alan Weaver said:

Interesting comments regarding sales service. I was interested in a 918S and a major Porsche dealer near a well known race track would not even allow me a test drive as "we don't have a car in a colour your are interested in"!!!! They were barely bothered to take my details down and so uninterested in the 50k that I had to spend it was amazing.
I continued to look for the car I wanted on Piston Heads and after several months found one at the other end of the country in Exeter. The difference in attitude and service there was incredible, and not less than you would actually want.
Richard Hannaford at Exeter could not have been more helpful and accommodating. He reserved the car for me, gave me a great test drive and ultimately sold me a fantastically specced Guards Red 918S.
I have driven the 718 at a Porsche Experience day and while the torque is impressive I prefer the 6 cylinder engine in the 918. Even though my car is over 4 years old I have no intention of replacing it with a 4 cylinder. That may change if they bring out a new 718 with a 6 cylinder and to be honest we now have so much technology in cars these days I am not going to be concerned about having a hybrid system, as long as the weight is kept under control.
The 918 / 718 may not be the fastest car, and it is obvious that 315hp may be considered to rather low now that every new car comes out with ever increasing horse power. However for me it is all about handing, road holding and have a car that you can place accurately and comfortably on the roads, which do not ever grow in size or become less congested.
I am certainly a fan or Porsche and I hope that the company continues to take note of customer comments and demands.

Another vote for the team at Exeter OPC. They do seem to have a high staff turnover although the DP, Kevin Turner has been there for many years now and the technicians seem settled. Always great service and I take my classics there too.

Regarding the Cayster, a sports car should always be relatively light. Really cannot see how another 200kg of batteries will add to the experience. I think Porsche will continue with ICE for their sports cars for many years yet and have said as much. This article is pure speculation.

[Vee12V]

sasha320 said:

Vee12V said:

Just the typical OPC tts, I'm sure. I once went to my local OPC to inform about a GT3, but left quite quickly after having being treated like a piece of trash, despite having rolled up in something substantially more expensive and rare. I'm not sure who these idiots sell to, but they'll never see my money. That's for sure.

Out of interest what did you drive that didn’t turn the salesmen's head?

To your question, I agree, who are they selling to if someone expressing an interest in an expensive car is not treated with a bit of respect?

A 612 Scag.

[GTEYE]

Vee12V said:

sasha320 said:

Vee12V said:

Just the typical OPC tts, I'm sure. I once went to my local OPC to inform about a GT3, but left quite quickly after having being treated like a piece of trash, despite having rolled up in something substantially more expensive and rare. I'm not sure who these idiots sell to, but they'll never see my money. That's for sure.

Out of interest what did you drive that didn’t turn the salesmen's head?

To your question, I agree, who are they selling to if someone expressing an interest in an expensive car is not treated with a bit of respect?

A 612 Scag.

I don't really think salesman are scanning the carpark to see what someone rolls up in.

But, my experience of an OPC (East London) when I sourced a 991.2 GTS for my father was quite the opposite - they couldn't have been more helpful or professional.

There's no excuse for rudeness - in what way did they treat you like trash?

[NJJ]

GTEYE said:

Vee12V said:

sasha320 said:

Vee12V said:

Just the typical OPC tts, I'm sure. I once went to my local OPC to inform about a GT3, but left quite quickly after having being treated like a piece of trash, despite having rolled up in something substantially more expensive and rare. I'm not sure who these idiots sell to, but they'll never see my money. That's for sure.

Out of interest what did you drive that didn’t turn the salesmen's head?

To your question, I agree, who are they selling to if someone expressing an interest in an expensive car is not treated with a bit of respect?

A 612 Scag.

I don't really think salesman are scanning the carpark to see what someone rolls up in.

But, my experience of an OPC (East London) when I sourced a 991.2 GTS for my father was quite the opposite - they couldn't have been more helpful or professional.

There's no excuse for rudeness - in what way did they treat you like trash?

I would also say the hallmark of a good dealer is one where you are treated with respect and professionalism whatever car you decide to turn up in.