RE: Chiron Super Sport 300 unveiled with 1600hp

RE: Chiron Super Sport 300 unveiled with 1600hp

Author
Discussion

neil1jnr

1,275 posts

100 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
virgilio said:
this car is around 500 times more expensive than an econobox. In the gloriously unequal 1930, a Bugatti Royale (no less) was less than 100 times more expensive than a Citroen 5hp.
Oh, and 30 people thought nothing of spending twice the cost of a chiron for a chiron that might be limited to 280mph, compared to the standard’s 261mph.

I always defined myself a socially liberal economic conservative, and I am a 1%er, but things like this make even a socialist revolution seem reasonable.

(end of political rant: the chiron is tacky and useless; the Valkyrie an absolute masterpiece worth every penny of its crazy price!)
Nuts. Bananas.
'Yer a neep' as we would say up here.



WCZ

7,007 posts

139 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
Baldchap said:
Wonder how long till we get a Veyron on Shed of the Week or Brave Pill. That'd be amazing! laugh
very unlikely biggrin

the veyron is likely to go up in price as the iconic car it was

virgilio

133 posts

90 months

Tuesday 10th September
quotequote all
neil1jnr said:
Nuts. Bananas.
'Yer a neep' as we would say up here.
An eloquent and logically sound counterargument. So convincing it will change my mind on this topic.

NFC 85 Vette

2,517 posts

181 months

Wednesday 11th September
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E65Ross said:
hucumber said:
redroadster said:
Pretty boring when a drag car can do it in 5 seconds and just quarter of a mile ,plenty of firms would build you one for a lot less and with change buy a used F1 car for circuits if you like corners .
Pretty boring when a rocket can do 20,000mph and fly to the moon
laugh

Exactly. Last time I checked a drag car or an old F1 car aren't road legal.
For comparison, if you take Andy Bond's Chevrolet 210, which just this weekend set some new track and class records in Street Eliminator. In fully street legal trim, ran 6.903/212.81mph. It's as road worthy as a regular car (treaded tyres, 95-99 octane, mufflers, taxed, insured, MoT'd etc), just a bit more brisk, and perhaps without all the creature comforts. Of course that's where Bugatti has always outshone others - making cars like the Chiron and Veyron be rudely fast, with a well appointed cabin and the finest materials. In racing though, we don't get points for £3k magnesium indicator stalks, so what might be seen as primitive to some, is simply because the cars we build only have one purpose - to go quickly.

What would the vmax be? Who knows - as I noted in the other Chiron 300mph thread, front end lift becomes an issue for these cars as they're designed around getting weight transfer onto the back axle, and with the fuel tank up front, the dynamic ballast is no longer there at the end of a run.

To address the elephant in the room, 1600bhp is a fair amount in Supercar and Hypercar circles, but is entry level in drag racing and land speed racing.

Kubevoid

136 posts

1 month

Wednesday 11th September
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For quite some time the racing street based tuner cars in USA have been making 2000bhp. The bar has been moved upwards again. Some are chasing the 2500-3000 now. Such cars include GTR, Lambos, Vipers etc.

Even manufacturers V8 crate engines are getting rather impressive. When turbos are added to those, the numbers get daft quickly. One example is an 1800bhp Ultima. More power than a Chiron SS in half the mass.

Just to say its not out of reach to get to the level of a Chiron performance if you have the will and a mere fraction of the means.

Edited by Kubevoid on Wednesday 11th September 08:01

NFC 85 Vette

2,517 posts

181 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Kubevoid said:
For quite some time the racing street based tuner cars in USA have been making 2000bhp. The bar has been moved upwards again. Some are chasing the 2500-3000 now. Such cars include GTR, Lambos, Vipers etc.

Even manufacturers V8 crate engines are getting rather impressive. When turbos are added to those, the numbers get daft quickly. One example is an 1800bhp Ultima. More power than a Chiron SS in half the mass.

Just to say its not out of reach to get to the level of a Chiron performance if you have the will and a mere fraction of the means.

Edited by Kubevoid on Wednesday 11th September 08:01
If a simpleton like me can get 4000 horsepower out of a 408 cubic inch push rod Chrysler, some folks with brains and money should be able to achieve big things cool

E65Ross

23,046 posts

157 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
NFC 85 Vette said:
Kubevoid said:
For quite some time the racing street based tuner cars in USA have been making 2000bhp. The bar has been moved upwards again. Some are chasing the 2500-3000 now. Such cars include GTR, Lambos, Vipers etc.

Even manufacturers V8 crate engines are getting rather impressive. When turbos are added to those, the numbers get daft quickly. One example is an 1800bhp Ultima. More power than a Chiron SS in half the mass.

Just to say its not out of reach to get to the level of a Chiron performance if you have the will and a mere fraction of the means.

Edited by Kubevoid on Wednesday 11th September 08:01
If a simpleton like me can get 4000 horsepower out of a 408 cubic inch push rod Chrysler, some folks with brains and money should be able to achieve big things cool
And will those engines last 100,000+ miles, work absolutely fine in well below 0 degrees as well as well over 40 degrees, day in day out?

NFC 85 Vette

2,517 posts

181 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
E65Ross said:
And will those engines last 100,000+ miles, work absolutely fine in well below 0 degrees as well as well over 40 degrees, day in day out?
As I've pointed out, on many, many occasions, the sole purpose of the engine I've built for the Corvette is in accordance with the technical regulations and it serves only to get the car down the quarter mile as quickly as mechanically possible, while remaining period correct i.e. based on 1970's OEM parts - I think we did a decent job of that, but we're all entitled to our own opinions. If you're implying it's a bit rubbish because it's not a daily driver, I've made absolutely zero attempt to sell it as a road going, 100,000 mile engine that will work in Siberian temperatures and take you to the shops in luxury. It's a race engine, designed for racing.

My point was that smarter folk than me, like yourself, can produce very impressive things these days with modern engines. Producing horsepower is relatively easy. Making it serve several purposes is where it becomes more challenging. Turbocharging and electronic fuel injection allow for a lot of clever fuel and boost maps, allowing great power while being tractable and usable at more mundane speeds. Whether it's come too late in the day due to fossil fuels and ICE's increasingly seen as the work of the devil, only time will tell.

E65Ross

23,046 posts

157 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Then why compare that engine to the Chiron then?

NFC 85 Vette

2,517 posts

181 months

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
E65Ross said:
Then why compare that engine to the Chiron then?
I wasn't, the comparison I made was against a Chevy 210 Sedan that's set multiple records in street legal trim, can be driven in all weather, regularly cruises around Swindon. Straight line acceleration and vmax tests are where the Chiron excels, but it also means comparisons will be drawn against similar machinery with a penchant for large horsepower production, so drag racing is a close relative - in performance terms at least, if not durability. In the luxury stakes, it's no contest, but that's a trait of racing full stop. Even F1 cars are held together by gorilla tape in places biggrin

My own car doesn't factor into this, because as you pointed out, it's a bit pointless and rubbish because it cant be driven to the shops, nor do 100,000 miles without a rebuild (in fact, we rebuild it after each 1/4 mile run, so how rubbish must it be!). But the Nostalgia Funny Car rule book doesn't mention a requirement to go shopping, and the last time I checked, 85% nitromethane wasn't an option at the petrol pumps anyway... I only mentioned it because it highlights the ease with which horsepower is produced these days.

When you have the engineering setup of VW, and pockets deep enough to support it, the Chiron is the result - a car with the performance and luxury that other car makers simply cannot match.

Kubevoid

136 posts

1 month

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
NFC 85 Vette said:
Kubevoid said:
For quite some time the racing street based tuner cars in USA have been making 2000bhp. The bar has been moved upwards again. Some are chasing the 2500-3000 now. Such cars include GTR, Lambos, Vipers etc.

Even manufacturers V8 crate engines are getting rather impressive. When turbos are added to those, the numbers get daft quickly. One example is an 1800bhp Ultima. More power than a Chiron SS in half the mass.

Just to say its not out of reach to get to the level of a Chiron performance if you have the will and a mere fraction of the means.

Edited by Kubevoid on Wednesday 11th September 08:01
If a simpleton like me can get 4000 horsepower out of a 408 cubic inch push rod Chrysler, some folks with brains and money should be able to achieve big things cool
That's incredible. Respect the rumble cool

Kubevoid

136 posts

1 month

Wednesday 11th September
quotequote all
Some of the crate engines in the tuner world do come with warranties.

I love the idea of a Nelson Racing Engine. Some of these are used in daily drivers. If you are into speed and want one in a decent chassis, something like an Ultima would be a huge giggle.

Not taking anything away from the amazing big Bug. Just saying there are daft options for power freaks on a budget.