RE: Land Rover Defender | Frankfurt 2019
Discussion
Griffithy said:
Just configured a 110 with only my basic options which came much higher than a fully loaded Unlimited Rubicon 
Quite expensive and loaded with fragile electronics.
Sorry Pretender, that´s a no from me.
Most will "buy" (rent) on finance, so it's only the monthly cost that matters.Quite expensive and loaded with fragile electronics.
Sorry Pretender, that´s a no from me.
Even for those who may buy, the cost to own will ultimately boil down to the residual value at re-sale / trade in. Part of the reason I routinely window shop at the wranglers is that the residual value is very weak, as with all Jeep products.
Griffithy said:
Just configured a 110 with only my basic options which came much higher than a fully loaded Unlimited Rubicon
Quite expensive and loaded with fragile electronics.
Sorry Pretender, that´s a no from me.
I thought we had covered off why the Jeep is so cheap (heh), it's more than just economies of scale. I'd rather have a " Pretender" (bit childish but ok) that is great off-road (it just will be) that also won't maim me or kill my future children in an accident.Quite expensive and loaded with fragile electronics.
Sorry Pretender, that´s a no from me.
“This is a very poor performance, fundamentally structural,” he said. “For a new model to have an unstable passenger cell, where the dummy has made contact with the A-pillar, with the dashboard… [it's poor]"
“One of the other things we’re seeing here is that the footwell ruptured”
“The passenger compartment of the Jeep Wrangler did not retain its structural integrity in the frontal offset test. Connection between the A-pillar and the cross fascia beam was compromised, as was the footwell structure, and penalties were applied."
“Protection of the chest was ‘weak’ for the driver and ‘adequate’ for the front passenger. Structures in the dashboard were a potential source of injury for both the driver and passenger and protection of the upper legs was rated ‘marginal'."
“Rearward displacement of the pedals was excessive and, in combination with the footwell rupture, protection of the driver’s feet was rated ‘marginal’."
“In the full width frontal test, chest protection of the driver was ‘marginal’. Protection of the rear passenger neck was ‘weak’, and chest protection was ‘poor’ based on dummy readings and high seat belt loads“
frozen-in-wiltshire said:
40k for the asthmatic one - no use
60k for the sensibly powered diesel - the one you need
A few people have mentioned this, but the lowest power option is 200 bhp, which is still more than most of the pickups that people keep referencing, no? My BiL uses a '17 L200 for work and that is around 180 bhp if memory serves.60k for the sensibly powered diesel - the one you need
And it isn't even that long since the world was happy with 120 ~ 130 bhp from a 2.5 ~ 3 litre for a mid sized workhorse 4x4 which weighs about the same as the new defender 90
200 bhp from a 2 litre diesel is not asthmatic
also, probably worth mentioning that the 200 and 240 bhp versions of the engine make the exact same torque, but the 240 makes it until a bit higher up the rev range
deadtom said:
A few people have mentioned this, but the lowest power option is 200 bhp, which is still more than most of the pickups that people keep referencing, no? My BiL uses a '17 L200 for work and that is around 180 bhp if memory serves.
And it isn't even that long since the world was happy with 120 ~ 130 bhp from a 2.5 ~ 3 litre for a mid sized workhorse 4x4 which weighs about the same as the new defender 90
200 bhp from a 2 litre diesel is not asthmatic
also, probably worth mentioning that the 200 and 240 bhp versions of the engine make the exact same torque, but the 240 makes it until a bit higher up the rev range
Quite. After driving an early Series with 50hp even the D200 will seem like an SVR.And it isn't even that long since the world was happy with 120 ~ 130 bhp from a 2.5 ~ 3 litre for a mid sized workhorse 4x4 which weighs about the same as the new defender 90
200 bhp from a 2 litre diesel is not asthmatic
also, probably worth mentioning that the 200 and 240 bhp versions of the engine make the exact same torque, but the 240 makes it until a bit higher up the rev range
Griffithy said:
Just configured a 110 with only my basic options which came much higher than a fully loaded Unlimited Rubicon
Quite expensive and loaded with fragile electronics.
Sorry Pretender, that´s a no from me.
Fragile electronics? Where are you basing this from.Quite expensive and loaded with fragile electronics.
Sorry Pretender, that´s a no from me.
When was the last time an ecu failed or your phone or your tv
Ps they probably buy the ECU stuff in same electronics that goes in every other car. Just like your TRW EPAS board that went in about a dozen different manufacturers cars, or your Denso dash electronics and air con system.
Just like they bought the 8 speed gearbox in. How many ECU does an Audi Q7 have etc etc.
deadtom said:
frozen-in-wiltshire said:
40k for the asthmatic one - no use
60k for the sensibly powered diesel - the one you need
A few people have mentioned this, but the lowest power option is 200 bhp, which is still more than most of the pickups that people keep referencing, no? My BiL uses a '17 L200 for work and that is around 180 bhp if memory serves.60k for the sensibly powered diesel - the one you need
And it isn't even that long since the world was happy with 120 ~ 130 bhp from a 2.5 ~ 3 litre for a mid sized workhorse 4x4 which weighs about the same as the new defender 90
200 bhp from a 2 litre diesel is not asthmatic
also, probably worth mentioning that the 200 and 240 bhp versions of the engine make the exact same torque, but the 240 makes it until a bit higher up the rev range
Do we know that these engines arent completely identical but just using a different map ? There’s about a 5k difference for 40hp.
Sees daft.
200 is fine in a diesel with that amount of torque.
Pesty said:
Fragile electronics? Where are you basing this from.
When was the last time an ecu failed or your phone or your tv
Ps they probably buy the ECU stuff in same electronics that goes in every other car. Just like your TRW EPAS board that went in about a dozen different manufacturers cars, or your Denso dash electronics and air con system.
Just like they bought the 8 speed gearbox in. How many ECU does an Audi Q7 have etc etc.
Based on previous JLR performance in this areaWhen was the last time an ecu failed or your phone or your tv
Ps they probably buy the ECU stuff in same electronics that goes in every other car. Just like your TRW EPAS board that went in about a dozen different manufacturers cars, or your Denso dash electronics and air con system.
Just like they bought the 8 speed gearbox in. How many ECU does an Audi Q7 have etc etc.
Pesty said:
I’ve also been wondering about this.
Do we know that these engines arent completely identical but just using a different map ? There’s about a 5k difference for 40hp.
Sees daft.
200 is fine in a diesel with that amount of torque.
I noticed that too, which is why I went for the petrol as it was faster than both diesels and yet cheaper than the 240D. Given the fuel economy didn't look amazing from the diesels, and tax will inevitably increase in the long term, it looks like petrol versions may do well - themselves also capable of being remapped cost effectively.Do we know that these engines arent completely identical but just using a different map ? There’s about a 5k difference for 40hp.
Sees daft.
200 is fine in a diesel with that amount of torque.
The thing that many have missed is that now the Defender is aimed at a broader section of the market and will be sold in places like the USA, British tastes may be relatively insignificant.
Hopefully the full range will be out by the time I’m ready to consider one. - I want to see the 130.
Hopefully the full range will be out by the time I’m ready to consider one. - I want to see the 130.
Clivey said:
The thing that many have missed is that now the Defender is aimed at a broader section of the market and will be sold in places like the USA, British tastes may be relatively insignificant.
Hopefully the full range will be out by the time I’m ready to consider one. - I want to see the 130.
Hang on. Are the other models not available in the USA? I presume the full on Range Rover is. So is USA the "x" that was missing from the rest of the LR range that competes with the new defender?Hopefully the full range will be out by the time I’m ready to consider one. - I want to see the 130.
Munter said:
Hang on. Are the other models not available in the USA? I presume the full on Range Rover is. So is USA the "x" that was missing from the rest of the LR range that competes with the new defender?
LR USA sells everything we get in Britain, including the Evoque and Discovery Sport. $50k for a base P300 Defender.https://www.landroverusa.com/index.html
Munter said:
Hang on. Are the other models not available in the USA? I presume the full on Range Rover is. So is USA the "x" that was missing from the rest of the LR range that competes with the new defender?
The new Defender will be sold in North America. The old one hadn’t been available there for a couple of decades.What I meant was that as this new Defender will be sold in the US (and presumably everywhere else Land Rover sell their other models), there are a greater variety of tastes than just “artisan mushroom vendors” and school run Mums from the UK to take into account.
mat205125 said:
Most will "buy" (rent) on finance, so it's only the monthly cost that matters.
Even for those who may buy, the cost to own will ultimately boil down to the residual value at re-sale / trade in. Part of the reason I routinely window shop at the wranglers is that the residual value is very weak, as with all Jeep products.
Wrangler market is teeny though and i’m not sure how they go about building a credit model for that, other than to bang in low residuals.Even for those who may buy, the cost to own will ultimately boil down to the residual value at re-sale / trade in. Part of the reason I routinely window shop at the wranglers is that the residual value is very weak, as with all Jeep products.
Used market residuals look distinctly different and some models are like hens teeth.
The old Defender sold in the USA from 93-97 in 90 and 110 models.
A grand total of 500 a year were imported, but it ended when the USA regulations made an air bag standard.
So instead of designing a system to make an air bag standard.
Land Rover simply stopped selling the car in the USA.
This new model, however, will be sold in the USA.
So LR now have access to one of the largest outdoor and adventure markets with a fresh up product. Which means a lot of potential profit.
A grand total of 500 a year were imported, but it ended when the USA regulations made an air bag standard.
So instead of designing a system to make an air bag standard.
Land Rover simply stopped selling the car in the USA.
This new model, however, will be sold in the USA.
So LR now have access to one of the largest outdoor and adventure markets with a fresh up product. Which means a lot of potential profit.
Pesty said:
I’ve also been wondering about this.
Do we know that these engines arent completely identical but just using a different map ? There’s about a 5k difference for 40hp.
Sees daft.
200 is fine in a diesel with that amount of torque.
D240 is the twin turbo Diesel "High" spec, 200 is the "Mid", single turboDo we know that these engines arent completely identical but just using a different map ? There’s about a 5k difference for 40hp.
Sees daft.
200 is fine in a diesel with that amount of torque.
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