Speed awareness course feedback
Discussion
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Why would the same car driven by the same driver revisiting the same incident decelerate at different rates? Actually don't worry about it, you don't get it, you never will, so lets not waste anymore time on it.
Lazadude said:
I generally sat there in amazement at the people on mine, and me being the only person in the room who sat down on the single lane dual carriageway thing.. I only asked one question in mine and it was told off for it - which was about that whole Tiff N porsche video, They didn't like it when I pointed out the porsche could probably accelerate back up to 60 and stop again before the "control" car at the distance in the highway code had stopped for the first time.
The only bit of mine that I thought was a load of crap was the chap telling us that braking distances have got longer with new cars because they’re heavier 
buggalugs said:
The only bit of mine that I thought was a load of crap was the chap telling us that braking distances have got longer with new cars because they’re heavier
Is it still standard principle to drive in a lower gear through town? One guy took great exception to that, on ‘ecological grounds’
And, is it really true that various celebs and ‘even’ a Royal might be on a course, or just wishful thinking on behalf of the instructors?
yonex said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Why would the same car driven by the same driver revisiting the same incident decelerate at different rates? Actually don't worry about it, you don't get it, you never will, so lets not waste anymore time on it.
Yonex v Isaac Newton...could be a close fight.......not.
I await your revised kinetic energy formula with eager anticipation.
V8RX7 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
The point being made is that is braking from 30mpg at point A stops you at point B, had you been doing 35mph at point A, you'd be doing 18mph at point B. That applies if you're in an F1 car, or a Model T Ford. It applies if the car has ceramic discs with expensive tyres, or drum brakes with cheap tyres.
Yes I am intelligent enough to understand your point.Shame you aren't intelligent enough to understand mine
THE LIMIT IS THE SAME FOR ALL CARS, NO MATTER THEIR AGE NOR CONDITION
If stopping in XXXm is the goal then a variable limit should apply because an F1 car sure as hell stops in a lot shorter distance than laden Series 1 Land Rover
No one seems to understand the London bus lane signage, so they remain largely empty even when cars are able to use them. Variable speed limits will be too much for most to cope with.
yonex said:
Is it still standard principle to drive in a lower gear through town? One guy took great exception to that, on ‘ecological grounds’
As there were other slightly contrary things commented upon that were of marginal/debate benefit, I wondered if he would have told me to to use 3rd if I had been using 4th.
I suspected at the time that he enjoyed telling people to do the opposite in order to demonstrate his superiority
yonex said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Yonex v Isaac Newton...could be a close fight.......not.
I await your revised kinetic energy formula with eager anticipation.
I'll take that as you sloping off with your tail between your legs.
V8RX7 said:
Yes I am intelligent enough to understand your point.
Shame you aren't intelligent enough to understand mine
THE LIMIT IS THE SAME FOR ALL CARS, NO MATTER THEIR AGE NOR CONDITION
If stopping in XXXm is the goal then a variable limit should apply because an F1 car sure as hell stops in a lot shorter distance than laden Series 1 Land Rover
Great if you're in the F1 car that can stop on a dime, less great if the person behind is in the S1 Land Rover Shame you aren't intelligent enough to understand mine
THE LIMIT IS THE SAME FOR ALL CARS, NO MATTER THEIR AGE NOR CONDITION
If stopping in XXXm is the goal then a variable limit should apply because an F1 car sure as hell stops in a lot shorter distance than laden Series 1 Land Rover
But that isn't quite the point that Yonex can't understand
V8RX7 said:
If you don't know better then I pity you, I know my capabilities, I know the weather conditions, I know the traffic, I know what car / van / truck I'm driving, I know what load I'm carrying... so obviously I can make a better judgement on my speed than some random number on a stick.
You such like such a 
and I'll bet that whilst you may well be a competent driver, you're nowhere near as good as you think you are. 
Sheepshanks said:
PurpleTurtle said:
I actually found the course was rather good, espcially the stat that 80% of children hit by a car at 30mph will survive, 80% of childen hit by a car at 40mph will die. When you consider that (am assuming it is true) then those few mph over 30, for what they acually achieve, are pretty much pointless. So ever since I bimble around town obeying all 30/40/50 and NSLs.
Why don't you bimble everywhere at 30 so most children that you hit will survive, whatever the posted speed limit?I'm happy doing 20mph round my way after doing a speed awareness and seeing some rather grim pictures of what happened when someone gave it the beans then hit a kid on a bike.
At 20 he'd have stopped easily. At 30 he'd have hit the kid lightly. At 40 he killed him.
Sobering and makes me happy to bimble in built up areas.
TREMAiNE said:
V8RX7 said:
If you don't know better then I pity you, I know my capabilities, I know the weather conditions, I know the traffic, I know what car / van / truck I'm driving, I know what load I'm carrying... so obviously I can make a better judgement on my speed than some random number on a stick.
You such like such a and I'll bet that whilst you may well be a competent driver, you're nowhere near as good as you think you are. On the one hand we are told ' the limit is a scientifically calculated figure and it cannot possibly be safe to exceed it, you might think the conditions mean it is, but you cannot possibly know better than the person who set the limit.'
Then when it's pointed out that the limit is inappropriately low it's 'but the limit is a compromise, it has to allow for drunken drivers on bald tyres in thick fog so we can't possibly raise it.'
George Smiley said:
You haven’t included friction to your calculations
You are working it out that both the cortina and the 911 have the same coefficients, brakes nor are you taking into consideration weight distribution, spring rates etc.
Both 911's have the same though, as do both Cortina's.You are working it out that both the cortina and the 911 have the same coefficients, brakes nor are you taking into consideration weight distribution, spring rates etc.
It is a simplification to illustrate two identical vehicles travelling at different speeds & the effect of that difference on residual speeds. It is to illustrate that people more often than not under estimate what that residual speed will be.
George Smiley said:
You haven’t included friction to your calculations
You are working it out that both the cortina and the 911 have the same coefficients, brakes nor are you taking into consideration weight distribution, spring rates etc.
No, I'm saying that the Cortina at 30 mph has the same brakes, weight distribution and springs as the self same Cortina at 35 mph, and the 911 at 30 has the same brakes, weight distribution and springs as the self same 911 at 35 mph. You are working it out that both the cortina and the 911 have the same coefficients, brakes nor are you taking into consideration weight distribution, spring rates etc.
We are talking about the same incident. A Cortina braking from 30mph at point A comes to a halt at point B. Had it been doing 35mph at point A, it would be doing 18mph at point B. Same for a 911 (although point B will be closer to point A for the 911.)
People can argue this until the cows come home, but they are wrong, and Sir Isaac Newton was right. The laws of physics don't give two hoots if a human thinks they don't sound right.
vonhosen said:
It is a simplification to illustrate two identical vehicles travelling at different speeds & the effect of that difference on residual speeds. It is to illustrate that people more often than not under estimate what that residual speed will be.
Exactly. If the course began going into mechanics and equations, 90% of the attendees would think "maths! 
" and switch off.It's important not for the examples to mislead, though.
Very few drivers think about how a vehicle behaves. The just press go, coast or press stop, use the clutch to clunk through gears, with occasional (often excessive) yanking on the wheel to go around hazards and corners.
vonhosen said:
It is to illustrate that people more often than not under estimate what that residual speed will be.
Absolutely. Loads of people do 100 on the motorway. My mum does and thinks it's fine. But ask someone if they slam on their brakes at 70 to avoid the queue of traffic ahead and come to a halt a whisker from the car at the end of the queue, what speed would they have ploughed into that car had they been doing 100, none of them will know it's 71 mph. In the distance it takes a car to get down from 70 to zero, the same car won't have got down to 70 from 100. Because 100 squared is 10K, 70 squared is 4900, so the car travelling at 100mph still has 5100 units to scrub off at the point they would have scrubbed off 4900 had they been doing 70. And the square root of 5100 is.......71 and a bit.
I found my speed awareness course to be pretty patronising. Yes, fine, caught, suffer through it, but really?
There was about 3 hours of content about speed and its relationship to safety. And, certainly, a lot of people in this thread are examining that the same car will take a longer distance to stop when it was travelling at a higher speed, but all other circumstances stay the same.
However, there was only passing mention made on my course to:
- Tyre tread
- Tyre pressures
- Tyre brand
- Suspension / brake health
- Tracking / alignment.
I'd far prefer someone doing 35 in a car with decent rubber, the tyres aligned and the brakes in good condition than someone doing 29 with balding, underinflated ditchfinders that had clonked countless kerbs since last seeing the Hunter machine.
The second thing which got me was when the instructor was searching for other ways to determine the speed limit if a sign wasn't immediately visible. Clues like streetlights, street markings, houses etc already offered. I ventured "My satnav app often has speed limit information and displays this". I had apparently stumbled on the trigger-words for a well-rehearsed patter between the two course officiators, names changed because they weren't memorable: "Oh, sometimes these apps can be wrong, the data's wrong isn't it Bob?", "It absolutely is Alice, these databases are often out of date", "Quite right Bob, it's really very unreliable" (nods from Bob)... "No, to rely on your sat nav is really no use at all, definitely don't rely on it". Never said anything about 'relying' on it. I said nothing, just decided to let the time continue to agonisingly pass.
To be honest the rehearsed patter and the patronising delivery did detract from what might have been useful information. I saw a few derisory shakes of the head around the room. The instructors did have the chance to get us on board, think they binned it for a few in the room at that point.
There was about 3 hours of content about speed and its relationship to safety. And, certainly, a lot of people in this thread are examining that the same car will take a longer distance to stop when it was travelling at a higher speed, but all other circumstances stay the same.
However, there was only passing mention made on my course to:
- Tyre tread
- Tyre pressures
- Tyre brand
- Suspension / brake health
- Tracking / alignment.
I'd far prefer someone doing 35 in a car with decent rubber, the tyres aligned and the brakes in good condition than someone doing 29 with balding, underinflated ditchfinders that had clonked countless kerbs since last seeing the Hunter machine.
The second thing which got me was when the instructor was searching for other ways to determine the speed limit if a sign wasn't immediately visible. Clues like streetlights, street markings, houses etc already offered. I ventured "My satnav app often has speed limit information and displays this". I had apparently stumbled on the trigger-words for a well-rehearsed patter between the two course officiators, names changed because they weren't memorable: "Oh, sometimes these apps can be wrong, the data's wrong isn't it Bob?", "It absolutely is Alice, these databases are often out of date", "Quite right Bob, it's really very unreliable" (nods from Bob)... "No, to rely on your sat nav is really no use at all, definitely don't rely on it". Never said anything about 'relying' on it. I said nothing, just decided to let the time continue to agonisingly pass.
To be honest the rehearsed patter and the patronising delivery did detract from what might have been useful information. I saw a few derisory shakes of the head around the room. The instructors did have the chance to get us on board, think they binned it for a few in the room at that point.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
vonhosen said:
It is to illustrate that people more often than not under estimate what that residual speed will be.
Absolutely. Loads of people do 100 on the motorway. My mum does and thinks it's fine. But ask someone if they slam on their brakes at 70 to avoid the queue of traffic ahead and come to a halt a whisker from the car at the end of the queue, what speed would they have ploughed into that car had they been doing 100, none of them will know it's 71 mph. In the distance it takes a car to get down from 70 to zero, the same car won't have got down to 70 from 100. Because 100 squared is 10K, 70 squared is 4900, so the car travelling at 100mph still has 5100 units to scrub off at the point they would have scrubbed off 4900 had they been doing 70. And the square root of 5100 is.......between 71 and a bit.
AC43 said:
Sheepshanks said:
PurpleTurtle said:
Sobering and makes me happy to bimble in built up areas.
Me too. ALWAYS less than the posted limit in built up areas as it's far too easy to miss roving pedestrians, children & manoeuvring vehicles in & out of domestic or business premises. I take the view that somebody who just got in their car/van to commence a journey & pre-occupied with departing is not yet 'in the groove' & thus less likely to be aware of others. This will apply even more silent eclectic vehicles take to our roads. Most of all driving slowly in built up areas is SO good for the environment making me feel so superior, a subject always to the fore every second I drive - not.
Gassing Station | General Gassing | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff