RE: 'Plaid' level Model S revealed with lap record
Discussion
Ares said:
768 said:
You might need to see a doctor. 
The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
That is, of course, true...however, on long journeys (250/300 mile+), I don't think I have ever stopped and only pee'd. We only do journeys of that length once or twice a quarter, we've never stopped for less than 20-30mins by the time we've used the toilet, let the dog use the toilet, got a coffee etc. 20-30 mins. The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
20-30mins on a supercharger would give over 50% charge.
TX.
budgie smuggler said:
jjwilde said:
Gull Slayer said:
For me to go EV I would like a quoted 600 miles range or more. Then if its freezing cold and raining I would still have enough range with wipers, heaters and lights etc. on, with a diversion thrown in for good measure, and still not tickle my battery anxiety. Long while to wait I suspect!
The Tesla Roadster 2 apparently has a 620 mile range and a 0-60 under 2 seconds. Will likely be >£100k though.Few years back I would have said under 6 seconds to 60 is quick, under 4.5 fast. Now 4.5 seems slow.
If the range really is over 400 miles as well, that's unbelievable progress. Let alone over 600.
TX.
Terminator X said:
Ares said:
768 said:
You might need to see a doctor.
The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
That is, of course, true...however, on long journeys (250/300 mile+), I don't think I have ever stopped and only pee'd. We only do journeys of that length once or twice a quarter, we've never stopped for less than 20-30mins by the time we've used the toilet, let the dog use the toilet, got a coffee etc. 20-30 mins. The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
20-30mins on a supercharger would give over 50% charge.
TX.
We do Edinburgh (from Cheshire) several times a year - we stop at Gretna services every time, only ever for a pee, dog toilet and coffee/drink. That stop has never been less than 20mins (much to my chagrin!)
Lest we forget, we could do that journey on an EV charge and not have to stop for the car's sake (ditto with my ICE) - merely recharge at the destination, rather than have to drive to find a Shell SUL garage once in Edinburgh.
Ares said:
Terminator X said:
Ares said:
768 said:
You might need to see a doctor.
The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
That is, of course, true...however, on long journeys (250/300 mile+), I don't think I have ever stopped and only pee'd. We only do journeys of that length once or twice a quarter, we've never stopped for less than 20-30mins by the time we've used the toilet, let the dog use the toilet, got a coffee etc. 20-30 mins. The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
20-30mins on a supercharger would give over 50% charge.
TX.
We do Edinburgh (from Cheshire) several times a year - we stop at Gretna services every time, only ever for a pee, dog toilet and coffee/drink. That stop has never been less than 20mins (much to my chagrin!)
Lest we forget, we could do that journey on an EV charge and not have to stop for the car's sake (ditto with my ICE) - merely recharge at the destination, rather than have to drive to find a Shell SUL garage once in Edinburgh.
Re range isn't it just the silly expensive cars that have a good range. Mere mortals have to make do with a few hundred miles between top ups?
TX.
Terminator X said:
Ares said:
Terminator X said:
Ares said:
768 said:
You might need to see a doctor.
The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
That is, of course, true...however, on long journeys (250/300 mile+), I don't think I have ever stopped and only pee'd. We only do journeys of that length once or twice a quarter, we've never stopped for less than 20-30mins by the time we've used the toilet, let the dog use the toilet, got a coffee etc. 20-30 mins. The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
20-30mins on a supercharger would give over 50% charge.
TX.
We do Edinburgh (from Cheshire) several times a year - we stop at Gretna services every time, only ever for a pee, dog toilet and coffee/drink. That stop has never been less than 20mins (much to my chagrin!)
Lest we forget, we could do that journey on an EV charge and not have to stop for the car's sake (ditto with my ICE) - merely recharge at the destination, rather than have to drive to find a Shell SUL garage once in Edinburgh.
Re range isn't it just the silly expensive cars that have a good range. Mere mortals have to make do with a few hundred miles between top ups?
TX.
Methinks you are simply justifying having to not being able to wait that long to fill with electric.
And a few hundred miles is all you need to get to Edinburgh from here
Unless you're on the same tyres on the same day/time and using the same driver, there's sod all factual in the 'ring times anyway.
From marketing perspective you'd get more bang for buck in a positive endorsement from an F1 WDC champion than you would saying you were 0.3 seconds quicker over a 13 mile circuit than the Porsche driven by Schmidt Unhurdov who lives in a small cage by the gantry and only drinks petrol.
From marketing perspective you'd get more bang for buck in a positive endorsement from an F1 WDC champion than you would saying you were 0.3 seconds quicker over a 13 mile circuit than the Porsche driven by Schmidt Unhurdov who lives in a small cage by the gantry and only drinks petrol.
768 said:
Centurion07 said:
Gull Slayer said:
For me to go EV I would like a quoted 600 miles range or more. Then if its freezing cold and raining I would still have enough range with wipers, heaters and lights etc. on, with a diversion thrown in for good measure, and still not tickle my battery anxiety. Long while to wait I suspect!
You keep 600 mile's-worth of fuel in your car ALL THE TIME? No, me neither. Charging points are not THAT far apart that a range of 250-300 miles is really an issue.
Unlike a petrol car you are also not required to be present while it charges, the whole 10-20 minute of that refuelling stop is yours to do with as you like.
Look at the Tesla journey planner, it is perfectly possible to road trip anywhere in the UK with superchargers and destination chargers and on a longer journey a 20 minute stop every 4 hours or so it not exactly a hardship.
CedricN said:
Rumors says the prototype at the ring sits on CUP2R tyres, that would be hilarious if they actually sold those on the car, they seem to have a ridiculous wear rate, even on much lighter cars. Though they are probably the fastest street legal tyre that you can buy.
They’re gonna be like the old F1 hypersofts on something as heavy as a Tesla around the ‘Ring - you’d better make sure you do the out-lap really slowly and carefully, or else they’ll be completely done before you finish the timed lap! Great tyres for record lap times though, little more than sticky racing slicks with just enough of a tread pattern to make them road legal.
Gandahar said:
RacerMike said:
130R said:
janesmith1950 said:
Lewis Hamilton beating F1 World Champion Rosberg not good enough to learn the 'ring and set a representative time? Really?
Yes apparently they should get someone who isn't good enough to race in F1 instead ..Put someone like Hamilton, Verstappen or Rosberg against any of the top drivers in WEC, Blancpain GT, VLN or Indycar in something like an GT car and I have absolutely no doubt they’d be right up there, winning races and getting fastest laps. But they absolutely wouldn’t be significantly faster than the guys already winning. Mainly because many of them were compatriots of the F1 guys in junior series and were equally winning as many races. Many of them beat the guys in F1 pretty resoundingly, but didn’t get the chance to get to F1 due to budget, or took a different path.
So back to The ‘Ring. Absolutely Hamilton or Rosberg could steer a car around there quickly. But if they’ve never driven the circuit properly, like any other circuit, it’s going to take them some laps to learn. It takes about 15-20 laps to learn a circuit. I would say it took me probably 25-50 to feel confident at the Ring and go for a proper time, but given the restrictions they will have next week in Industry Pool, it would make far more sense to chose someone with lots of experience. You’d get someone who knew how to set a fast lap there immediately, someone who could feedback on setup and performance with lots of experience or what makes a car fast around there, and you’d make the most of the limited laps....especially given that at best you’ll have around 3-4 laps per charge, and fast charging options are limited. A couple of the OEMs have ABB super fast chargers down in Meuspath, but even if they had access to that, they’d lose 20-40mins driving there, charging and driving back.
I’ve actually driven an EV around there in Industry Pool and have driven during a closed session to set a lap time in one, and I can assure you that a Tesla will certainly be in at the deep end. It’s a tough place on cars (especially EV’s) and it’s very, very difficult to get a good break in the weather. Good luck to them!
Edited by RacerMike on Friday 13th September 11:08
Best driver to ask to do it currently might be Timo Bernhard. But once again a Porsche driver so out of bounds.
Nico might be good marketing, but only if you get the record, anything else is marketing disaster.
I rate the Tesla getting the record at 60% now since they are heavily modding it purely on the car, still less than 50% on weather and short time they have to run.
They are sending an engineering development car, they will tweak it until they break the record.
Also they will have a very good idea of how fast the car is and will have run it in the simulator, issues like cooling are also perfectly possible to simulate to a pretty high level of fidelity. They will also almost certainly use a development driver who is handy around the ring to set a baseline lap time for Nico who will then probably do plenty of practice in the simulator that he almost certainly has at home. They aren't going to let him do a dud lap and leave it at that.
For reference the Laguna Seca lap of the Plaid Model S was faster than the Jaguar XE SV P8 managed and that car managed to do the ring in 7:21. Typically the Model S has tailed off in acceleration at over 100 mph due to gearing, however I suspect that this may no longer be the case with Plaid mode given that the Roadster II has a planned 250 mph top speed.
CedricN said:
Rumors says the prototype at the ring sits on CUP2R tyres, that would be hilarious if they actually sold those on the car, they seem to have a ridiculous wear rate, even on much lighter cars. Though they are probably the fastest street legal tyre that you can buy.
The laguna seca car was but not sure all/any the cars at the ring are.The laguna seca lap was an amateur team driver but Thomas Mutsch is driving for them at the ring for now.
As for range/charging, your car will be full (600 miles) in the morning, which will do Manchester to Paris with some spare, or to Modena ( 1700km, 17 hours of driving) with about an hours charging. Piss bottles not included.
600 mile range with 250kw charging is pretty insane
CedricN said:
Rumors says the prototype at the ring sits on CUP2R tyres, that would be hilarious if they actually sold those on the car, they seem to have a ridiculous wear rate, even on much lighter cars. Though they are probably the fastest street legal tyre that you can buy.
They say Goodyear on the side though.
RobDickinson said:
The laguna seca car was but not sure all/any the cars at the ring are.
The laguna seca lap was an amateur team driver but Thomas Mutsch is driving for them at the ring for now.
As for range/charging, your car will be full (600 miles) in the morning, which will do Manchester to Paris with some spare, or to Modena ( 1700km, 17 hours of driving) with about an hours charging. Piss bottles not included.
600 mile range with 250kw charging is pretty insane
If the Nurburgring Model S has the Roadster 2 battery pack, where do you think they've stashed the extra 340kgs of battery? Given the anticipated weight of the Roadster 2 battery is about 880kg as opposed to the Model S's 540kgs?The laguna seca lap was an amateur team driver but Thomas Mutsch is driving for them at the ring for now.
As for range/charging, your car will be full (600 miles) in the morning, which will do Manchester to Paris with some spare, or to Modena ( 1700km, 17 hours of driving) with about an hours charging. Piss bottles not included.
600 mile range with 250kw charging is pretty insane
NDNDNDND said:
RobDickinson said:
The laguna seca car was but not sure all/any the cars at the ring are.
The laguna seca lap was an amateur team driver but Thomas Mutsch is driving for them at the ring for now.
As for range/charging, your car will be full (600 miles) in the morning, which will do Manchester to Paris with some spare, or to Modena ( 1700km, 17 hours of driving) with about an hours charging. Piss bottles not included.
600 mile range with 250kw charging is pretty insane
If the Nurburgring Model S has the Roadster 2 battery pack, where do you think they've stashed the extra 340kgs of battery? Given the anticipated weight of the Roadster 2 battery is about 880kg as opposed to the Model S's 540kgs?The laguna seca lap was an amateur team driver but Thomas Mutsch is driving for them at the ring for now.
As for range/charging, your car will be full (600 miles) in the morning, which will do Manchester to Paris with some spare, or to Modena ( 1700km, 17 hours of driving) with about an hours charging. Piss bottles not included.
600 mile range with 250kw charging is pretty insane
I'm pretty sure the roadster pack will be lighter than expected though, the S pack is very old school now compared to the 3 and tesla have a lot more modern more energy dense cells to use I am sure.
The model S may only have 100kwh onboard with improved cooling, should only need 25-30kwh for a ring lap anyhow.
To be honest this electric battle of the titans has got more column inches in the USA than the whole of Formula E
A slightly more interesting thing is whether Taycan can beat a standard model S on the drag strip for day to day driving for people who have bought both cars in the USA.
The Taycan 0-60 stats are higher, but Porsche tend to be conservative. How do both cars do half way down the track. I think when people get their hands on the Taycan that will then become more important in the USA than this track battle.
We are entering a new age of not saving the planet on 4 wheels
A slightly more interesting thing is whether Taycan can beat a standard model S on the drag strip for day to day driving for people who have bought both cars in the USA.
The Taycan 0-60 stats are higher, but Porsche tend to be conservative. How do both cars do half way down the track. I think when people get their hands on the Taycan that will then become more important in the USA than this track battle.
We are entering a new age of not saving the planet on 4 wheels
More an observation really, but having travelled over 10k miles around Europe this summer in a variety of cars, I've certainly noticed more EVs on the road. Dutch and Danish Teslas in Italy, and a couple of Brits in Southern France, and many more less far from home; these cross Europe trips are being done. I tend to travel on the motorway at speeds in the 80-120mph range depending on country /conditions, but the thing I noticed was that however ludicrously they can be driven, not a single EV was troubling the outside lane. It may be part of the planet saving mentality of these (relatively) early adopters, but I can't help but think they were keeping a very close eye on their range....
Also as a Londoner, the new electric cabs are a very positive addition both in terms of a place to travel in, and not belching diesel fumes into the atmosphere. Chatting to a driver however and he gets a whopping 65 miles out of his on battery only. A lot of time he uses his hand extender engine in other words, especially when the aircon is on in the back.
I know they are coming, and I'm not particularly adverse to it, but whatever the evangelists say on here, the reality of driving them isn't quite the 5min vs 25min pee many on here are suggesting....
Also as a Londoner, the new electric cabs are a very positive addition both in terms of a place to travel in, and not belching diesel fumes into the atmosphere. Chatting to a driver however and he gets a whopping 65 miles out of his on battery only. A lot of time he uses his hand extender engine in other words, especially when the aircon is on in the back.
I know they are coming, and I'm not particularly adverse to it, but whatever the evangelists say on here, the reality of driving them isn't quite the 5min vs 25min pee many on here are suggesting....
Ares said:
Gandahar said:
Ares said:
768 said:
You might need to see a doctor.
The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
That is, of course, true...however, on long journeys (250/300 mile+), I don't think I have ever stopped and only pee'd. We only do journeys of that length once or twice a quarter, we've never stopped for less than 20-30mins by the time we've used the toilet, let the dog use the toilet, got a coffee etc. 20-30 mins. The issue anyway is more that you can't fill the battery as fast as you can empty your bladder.
20-30mins on a supercharger would give over 50% charge.
£10 for charging, £20 for sundries.
Conversely, if (big IF) I did the journey in an EV, every hotel I've stayed at has charging points right there, so it charges overnight.
EVs are still less practical in a lot of real world situations, but their impracticality is wildly overplayed by a lot of people.
As an aside have you noticed that as you drive west or north west or north by north further away from London that the print magazines go from things like What Car and Evo and Autocar to more esoteric reading such as Fast Ford, BMW Bangers, Posche Repro Pork Heaven, Japanese Banzai etc etc.
Why is this?
You turn up at your cottage in Pembrokeshire and have to buy VW Coupe magazine. MInd you, the Corrado V6 was always better than the Rover 220 Tomcat.
RobDickinson said:
CedricN said:
Rumors says the prototype at the ring sits on CUP2R tyres, that would be hilarious if they actually sold those on the car, they seem to have a ridiculous wear rate, even on much lighter cars. Though they are probably the fastest street legal tyre that you can buy.
The laguna seca car was but not sure all/any the cars at the ring are.The laguna seca lap was an amateur team driver but Thomas Mutsch is driving for them at the ring for now.
"Pfft, Mutsch to do about nothing "
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