RE: £90k McLaren 650S | Spotted
Discussion
I think people are ready for some big bills in that territory and are happy to pay for a pretty pricey service, some very large and expensive tyres and the occasional clutch or whatever.
But, think with these, based on Hoovies videos its stuff that should just work for the life of the vehicle, as long as its maintained keeps breaking as well, large items, repeatedly.
Its still all fairly new, the first ones were a nightmare, know someone who had ones and he kept getting stranded by it, there is a lot of bespoke stuff in McLarens, sort of inevitable from startup there would be teethign troubles, also, Hoovies MPC was an early car, an thinking that later iterations would have ironed some of the issues out, trouble is the reputation tends to take a long time to catch up, if it ever does.
But, think with these, based on Hoovies videos its stuff that should just work for the life of the vehicle, as long as its maintained keeps breaking as well, large items, repeatedly.
Its still all fairly new, the first ones were a nightmare, know someone who had ones and he kept getting stranded by it, there is a lot of bespoke stuff in McLarens, sort of inevitable from startup there would be teethign troubles, also, Hoovies MPC was an early car, an thinking that later iterations would have ironed some of the issues out, trouble is the reputation tends to take a long time to catch up, if it ever does.
Late 12Cs and 650s are broadly bullet proof. Ask the owners. Of which I was one.
This doesn't meant that McLaren don't have significant problems.
The official warranty is too expensive. But it covers absolutely everything going wrong on a £300k car (my spider was £271k new) so it needs context. But the Thorney warranty is a great alternative for half the price.
There is not a decent indie network yet. Hopefully that will come.
There have been horrendous and much documented paint issues in 540/570. And some of the early 720s owners have had nightmares. There are clearly "bad cars" which have simply not been built well enough, which is not acceptable for a car at this level.
But I think that if you get a 12C or 650s that has been properly serviced, and put a Thorney warranty on it, you have an insane amount of performance for the money, and running costs not much higher than a big german barge or a 911.
You can say "these will be worthless in a couple of years". I strongly disagree. All the problems above are getting sorted, slowly. And even if they don't a car that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds would have a life as a track toy at around 50k mark. The performance and thrill is still amazing even in a 5 year old car.
This doesn't meant that McLaren don't have significant problems.
The official warranty is too expensive. But it covers absolutely everything going wrong on a £300k car (my spider was £271k new) so it needs context. But the Thorney warranty is a great alternative for half the price.
There is not a decent indie network yet. Hopefully that will come.
There have been horrendous and much documented paint issues in 540/570. And some of the early 720s owners have had nightmares. There are clearly "bad cars" which have simply not been built well enough, which is not acceptable for a car at this level.
But I think that if you get a 12C or 650s that has been properly serviced, and put a Thorney warranty on it, you have an insane amount of performance for the money, and running costs not much higher than a big german barge or a 911.
You can say "these will be worthless in a couple of years". I strongly disagree. All the problems above are getting sorted, slowly. And even if they don't a car that can do 0-60 in 3 seconds would have a life as a track toy at around 50k mark. The performance and thrill is still amazing even in a 5 year old car.
Digga said:
There are, I believe, some hoops to jump through regarding having it serviced if it is used on track.
Someone else who knows better can perhaps put a bit more detail on that?
You have to do a pre-track check and a post-track check, then your warranty is fine. That costs a few hundred quid, so I did track-days with McLaren instead of my own 12C.Someone else who knows better can perhaps put a bit more detail on that?
chris_at_mac said:
Digga said:
There are, I believe, some hoops to jump through regarding having it serviced if it is used on track.
Someone else who knows better can perhaps put a bit more detail on that?
You have to do a pre-track check and a post-track check, then your warranty is fine. That costs a few hundred quid, so I did track-days with McLaren instead of my own 12C.Someone else who knows better can perhaps put a bit more detail on that?
From a past 12C owner:
- McLaren warranty is V12-Ferrari expensive where I live. That is too much for a V8 car.
- There are no independents here like in the UK.
- My 2014 12C did not have major issues, but the built quality was not perfect when it came to small issues. McLaren knows they need to work on this. Watch Chris Harris on the 720S: 'McLaren needs to start putting these things together properly'. I had a 600LT on track and the seat was falling apart. Did not car because not my car, but still makes you think.
- Some dealers are just awful, but that is subjective and might not apply to your area. Had a lot of unpleasant discussions and surprises (my 2014 car was delivered on 2011 tyres, the compartment in the middle did not close and was never put right, the door opening rubber patches were wearing through and not replaced, they tried to sell me a new set of tires by underrepresenting the tread depth by 2mm, ...) Not directly McLaren's fault, but do this as a Ferrari dealer and you would be out.
- But my major concern against buying another McLaren is the lack of secondary market. Ferrari and Porsche started to take care of their secondary markets knowing it would help them in the primary market as well. If you buy a new McLaren and walk out of the dealership, they will not touch the car again if you want to sell it. This may be different in other countries, in particular in the UK, but here it is a problem that keeps people from buying it off you for a reasonable price.
- McLaren warranty is V12-Ferrari expensive where I live. That is too much for a V8 car.
- There are no independents here like in the UK.
- My 2014 12C did not have major issues, but the built quality was not perfect when it came to small issues. McLaren knows they need to work on this. Watch Chris Harris on the 720S: 'McLaren needs to start putting these things together properly'. I had a 600LT on track and the seat was falling apart. Did not car because not my car, but still makes you think.
- Some dealers are just awful, but that is subjective and might not apply to your area. Had a lot of unpleasant discussions and surprises (my 2014 car was delivered on 2011 tyres, the compartment in the middle did not close and was never put right, the door opening rubber patches were wearing through and not replaced, they tried to sell me a new set of tires by underrepresenting the tread depth by 2mm, ...) Not directly McLaren's fault, but do this as a Ferrari dealer and you would be out.
- But my major concern against buying another McLaren is the lack of secondary market. Ferrari and Porsche started to take care of their secondary markets knowing it would help them in the primary market as well. If you buy a new McLaren and walk out of the dealership, they will not touch the car again if you want to sell it. This may be different in other countries, in particular in the UK, but here it is a problem that keeps people from buying it off you for a reasonable price.
Digga said:
Thanks, that sort of refreshes my memory and is exactly what I thought. For an out and out sports car, it's not really an ideal situation, is it?
If you do regular track days no, it's not. If you want to drive a McLaren on track, do a McLaren experience with them. Sets you back 1k, but much cheaper than owning and running the thing.Hell of a lot of car for the money. At that price point you could get Fermit to re-trim the interior to something you like!
I appreciate the looks are subjective but spend an hour behind the wheel of a 650S and that will become less of an issue.
Brilliant cars, I outed mine for a 720 and wished I hadn't. Factor the warranty in though, people always talk about how expensive it is but it means you literally don't have to care about something going bang, you can just enjoy it every chance you get. Seems money well spent to me.
I appreciate the looks are subjective but spend an hour behind the wheel of a 650S and that will become less of an issue.
Brilliant cars, I outed mine for a 720 and wished I hadn't. Factor the warranty in though, people always talk about how expensive it is but it means you literally don't have to care about something going bang, you can just enjoy it every chance you get. Seems money well spent to me.
br d said:
Factor the warranty in though, people always talk about how expensive it is but it means you literally don't have to care about something going bang, you can just enjoy it every chance you get. Seems money well spent to me.
TBF, the 'cost' of running other performance cars out of warranty is often far higher than (most/many) people know or acknowledge.For me, it would be the little, daft detail things that would upset. My mate tends to run his 650s spider roof-down most of the time and roof up, on the way back from the Nurburgring we had a few rain showers and the rubbers (because they'd been compressed all the time with the hood down) began to leak slightly. It is a cheap, easy fix but a nuisance.
That said, McLaren are making some truly superb cars. I really do 'get' them, as there's an awful lot to like about the whole thing; the cars, the brand and its history. I just think the dealers might need managing better and more thought being put into the used market, both of which might restore faith and residuals for more potential buyers.
Never quite get why you’d want a used out of warranty one of these super cars. Surely they are more e plaything for whom the cost is no more than me running a shed - so little as to be negligible.
For the £90k and annual bills you could easily have a fantastic garage with money to spare for hiring something if you fancy the odd track day.
Do supercars even work any more in this country? I promised myself a 911 as a young man and now that I could afford one I found I didn’t want one because doing 69mph in second gear meant it you only needed 2nd and 3rd on any British B road.
For the £90k and annual bills you could easily have a fantastic garage with money to spare for hiring something if you fancy the odd track day.
Do supercars even work any more in this country? I promised myself a 911 as a young man and now that I could afford one I found I didn’t want one because doing 69mph in second gear meant it you only needed 2nd and 3rd on any British B road.
Honeywell said:
Do supercars even work any more in this country? I promised myself a 911 as a young man and now that I could afford one I found I didn’t want one because doing 69mph in second gear meant it you only needed 2nd and 3rd on any British B road.
I live in South Essex where there's a speed camera every 84 feet, that's why I do half of my annual mileage in Europe. You can still have lots of fun in a supercar if you make the effort. br d said:
Honeywell said:
Do supercars even work any more in this country? I promised myself a 911 as a young man and now that I could afford one I found I didn’t want one because doing 69mph in second gear meant it you only needed 2nd and 3rd on any British B road.
I live in South Essex where there's a speed camera every 84 feet, that's why I do half of my annual mileage in Europe. You can still have lots of fun in a supercar if you make the effort. I find these comments on quality and reliability a little amusing as rewind a few years to the intro of the MP4 and these pages were filled with comments along the lines of: "McLaren...they know what they're doing...absolute perfection...engineering excellence...." and you, or at least I, would think what are people basing that on? What experience or volume product give people that idea other than image or reputation? And sure enough...
Digga said:
Fittster said:
Does the warranty exclude track use?
There are, I believe, some hoops to jump through regarding having it serviced if it is used on track.Someone else who knows better can perhaps put a bit more detail on that?
And to be fair while I had some fairly major issues with servicing in general at my dealership, the warranty certainly held up it's end of the bargain and was absolutely worth many times over what I had forked out for it over the years. I had however heard some customers/dealerships were taking the mickey with warranty claims and that things had got a bit less hassle free wrt to warranty claims these days though but no idea how that has worked out in practice now.
JxJ Jr. said:
I find these comments on quality and reliability a little amusing as rewind a few years to the intro of the MP4 and these pages were filled with comments along the lines of: "McLaren...they know what they're doing...absolute perfection...engineering excellence...." and you, or at least I, would think what are people basing that on? What experience or volume product give people that idea other than image or reputation? And sure enough...
Passive-aggressive, smug and making up quotes that nobody could remember 8 years later.Cool post.
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