RE: Range Rover 4.6 Vogue (P38) | The Brave Pill
Discussion
300bhp/ton said:
The p38 certainly has some shortfalls. But it really isn't as complex as internet folklore proclaims. The oily bits are all very similar to earlier LR products. And there are lots of good guides and info on all the bits, plus very good parts supply. The L322 is arguably far more complex. But only on par with same era BMW's or Jaguars.
I think we can both agree that air suspension is a weak(ish) point on both models which isn’t the cheapest to put right, discounting the slipped liner issue I will concede that the P38 has less to go wrong overall, with the L322 some of the gearboxes tend to suffer-most commonly the ZF6 speed (the one in my L320 Sport did) the 3.6 TDV8s have a well known habit of turbos failing, and there are other things that are common failures but that could be lived without imo- like the electronic steering tilt etc.The sweet spot for an L322 would probably be a 4.4 TDV8 with the ZF8 speed for me, there were better sorted by then but that is leagues apart from both P38s and early L322s in terms of cost.
Busterbulldog said:
I have had a few , a good one is a lovely thing still.
Agreed - no, they aren’t quick, but they will bowl along at 70-ish happily in wafty comfort, go round corners well enough, but it’s the fact you never, ever feel you can’t hail your way out of the ice, snow or mud that makes it unbeatable for those of us whose wives and daughters are obsessed with the four-hooded money-eating machines known as horses.I’ve had Jeep grand cherokees (Comfy seats, good off-road but like a tractor on tarmac), currently have a cayenne diesel (great on road, but mediocre in boggy or snowy conditions), but nothing does it all like a Rangie. Newest ones are a bit Chelsea tractor, L322 has more issues than a p38, whilst being harder to fix and a classic is, well, a tractor with carpets.
Ideally I’d love one of the overfinch ones with the Chevy v8 (sorts the engine issue), a set of uprated airbags (air issues largely down to splits in the OEM ones)... make sure you have the blackbox reader and wire a button to trip The was relay if you need to, disconnect the alarm aerial (don’t need it and WiFi signals cause it to ping the battery) and enjoy.
Or get a Holland and Holland and fit the Chevy smallblock to that.
Great old buses.
pSyCoSiS said:
300bhp/ton said:
pSyCoSiS said:
Now now ladies, handbags away!
It's like with every car - you either like them, or you don't.
Doesn't make it better or inferior to other cars just because you haven an opinion.
Back in their day, I'm sure the 2.5 BMW M51 was adequate in the P38, but today, a 1998 vintage ML320 would leave it standing. In comparison, the BMW M57 3.0 TD6 isn't exactly a rocket ship either, but probably kept up with the ML270 CDI or the X5 3.0d when new?
Isn't an ML320 petrol? A quick Google says 215hp, so very much on par with the 4.6 RV8 p38 in the power department.It's like with every car - you either like them, or you don't.
Doesn't make it better or inferior to other cars just because you haven an opinion.
Back in their day, I'm sure the 2.5 BMW M51 was adequate in the P38, but today, a 1998 vintage ML320 would leave it standing. In comparison, the BMW M57 3.0 TD6 isn't exactly a rocket ship either, but probably kept up with the ML270 CDI or the X5 3.0d when new?
4.6 RR = 0-60mph in 9.6sec
ML320 = 0-60mph in 9.2sec
Parkers shows the ML270 CDI as 163hp and 0-60mph in 11.0 - 11.8 sec.
Quicker than a p38 diesel. But not exactly a rocket ship still.
A RR is a RR, and it's charm, ability and following will always appeal to those who have had good experience / fond memories. Those that have experienced money pits, will naturally dislike them and can you blame them?
Like with every car, you get good ones and bad apples. E60 V10 M5s are riddled with issues and most people avoid them like the plague, but there are owners who have all the original running gear still and not encountered an issue.
As a driver's car, the L322 is well ahead of the P38. More refined, more luxurious, etc. How they compare off-road, I cannot tell you as I have never tried in either. I have done in an old Disco 300 TDi Auto and that was an impressive and capable tool.
But, and it is a key point, a P38 can be bought for peanuts. The chassis went on to underpin two generations of Discovery with minimal tweaks and if you think the P38 was unreliable, the L322 has it matched easily.
P38: leaky airbags (usually a lack of maintenance/replacement at 60,000 miles), EAS settling (disconnect the booster Ariel for the key fob) or terminal engine issue (any rover v8 can do that, but later THOR Ecu is better than the early GEMS at saving the engine from too many woes). Swapping in a smallblock Chevy is quite straightforward and those motors *are* bulletproof.
L322: all the usual BMw engine woes (vanos, head gaskets, Ecu faults), just exacerbated by dragging 2.5 tons of complex machinery around. Rear windows falling out or exploding, the multifunction steering wheel habitually shorts and causes chaos with the electrical systems...and air suspension issues.
I love rangies, I’d happily drive nothing else if I could. For a cheap shed, a late Thor 4.6 p38 - buy yourself the EAS reset tool, wire a switch to manually jump the relay for the EAS pump and stay on top of coolant and oil changes and enjoy.
For a serious secondhand buy, the latest tDV8 you can afford.
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