RE: Range Rover 4.6 Vogue (P38) | The Brave Pill
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Not a tremendously accurate article. While the Disco of the time was to all intents and purposes a Classic with many interchangeable parts, the P38 has almost nothing that’s interchangeable, sits on a different ladder, uses a different suspension system and is generally as different as a ladder chassis 4x4 made by a different company.
Generally speaking, the p38 was a much better car than the Classic but just let down awfully by cheap electrics bodged together by typical British workers who simply didn’t give a s
t.
If you enjoy and are capable of fannying about with the frailties then they do represent awfully cheap motoring with even the chance of value appreciation.
As a car it is currently in that sweet spot where intelligent buying and a bit of work can give you free motoring due to the value uplift that you can create. Unintelligent buying and needing someone else to do the maintenance will conversely drill you a new one.
Generally speaking, the p38 was a much better car than the Classic but just let down awfully by cheap electrics bodged together by typical British workers who simply didn’t give a s
t. If you enjoy and are capable of fannying about with the frailties then they do represent awfully cheap motoring with even the chance of value appreciation.
As a car it is currently in that sweet spot where intelligent buying and a bit of work can give you free motoring due to the value uplift that you can create. Unintelligent buying and needing someone else to do the maintenance will conversely drill you a new one.
DonkeyApple said:
Not a tremendously accurate article. While the Disco of the time was to all intents and purposes a Classic with many interchangeable parts, the P38 has almost nothing that’s interchangeable, sits on a different ladder, uses a different suspension system and is generally as different as a ladder chassis 4x4 made by a different company.
Generally speaking, the p38 was a much better car than the Classic but just let down awfully by cheap electrics bodged together by typical British workers who simply didn’t give a st.
If you enjoy and are capable of fannying about with the frailties then they do represent awfully cheap motoring with even the chance of value appreciation.
As a car it is currently in that sweet spot where intelligent buying and a bit of work can give you free motoring due to the value uplift that you can create. Unintelligent buying and needing someone else to do the maintenance will conversely drill you a new one.
Oil leaks seemed to be a problem with the one I had many years ago. The oil generally seemed to prefer to be on the outside of the engine, rather than in it.Generally speaking, the p38 was a much better car than the Classic but just let down awfully by cheap electrics bodged together by typical British workers who simply didn’t give a s
t. If you enjoy and are capable of fannying about with the frailties then they do represent awfully cheap motoring with even the chance of value appreciation.
As a car it is currently in that sweet spot where intelligent buying and a bit of work can give you free motoring due to the value uplift that you can create. Unintelligent buying and needing someone else to do the maintenance will conversely drill you a new one.
So said:
Oil leaks seemed to be a problem with the one I had many years ago. The oil generally seemed to prefer to be on the outside of the engine, rather than in it.
A very sensible system for letting you know there is oil in the engine. No need for fancy gizmos in the dash. 
With the RV8 you just seemed to get one that either never dropped oil or one that did. Probably a lottery based around how hungover or bothered the chap was at the moment he slung it together.
By the time that engine was in the p38 it was a pretty old design given its history of having a very advanced, Germanic/BMWish design that just happened to appear at Buick in the US shortly after all the war reparations had been divied up.
Why would you pay £2500 for a P38?, they’re awful, plus you can get an L322 for the same money, which are, miles nicer to drive, miles better to look at,inside and outside and a fair bit more reliable, there’s a reason that Toyota Landcruiser of the same vintage will be four times more expensive.
Edited by Walter Sobchak on Sunday 15th September 11:13
Walter Sobchak said:
Why would you pay £2500 for a P38?, they’re awful, plus you can get an L322 for the same money, which are, miles nicer to drive, miles better to look at,inside and outside and a fair bit more reliable, there’s a reason that Toyota Landcruiser of the same vintage will be four times more expensive.
The L322 is generally more complex and expensive to work on so when looking at the two you shouldn’t consider the purchase cost but a projection of the overall cost potential over the likely period of ownership. The L322 is indeed a much better drive just as the p38 was over the Classic bit down at the £2500 initial outlay level it’s the running costs that can negate the advantage of that gain. It’s horses for courses and both require knowing what you are buying to avoid a bit of a mess. Edited by Walter Sobchak on Sunday 15th September 11:13
DonkeyApple said:
The L322 is generally more complex and expensive to work on so when looking at the two you shouldn’t consider the purchase cost but a projection of the overall cost potential over the likely period of ownership. The L322 is indeed a much better drive just as the p38 was over the Classic bit down at the £2500 initial outlay level it’s the running costs that can negate the advantage of that gain. It’s horses for courses and both require knowing what you are buying to avoid a bit of a mess.
I’ve owned two L322s, neither had any real issues with them and we’re very pleasant to drive, my brother had a P38, several years ago now, was 2004 IIRC and it was a ‘97 car, problem after problem, in fact the only one cost wise which was worse was the 2.7 Sport I owned and that was only because it lunched it’s gearbox!.If I was going to spend £2.5k on a Range Rover I really think an early 4.4 L322 would be the safest bet as well as being a far nicer drive, of course, after owning one too I’d probably spend four times the money on the Toyota and have a headache free life, although L322 TDV8s are looking great value now, I’d be too put off by a blowing a turbo or breaking another gearbox to risk one though, Range Rovers are lovely cars I really like them but their terrible reliability and high parts costs just aren’t worth what they offer imo.
Edited by Walter Sobchak on Sunday 15th September 13:52
[quote=A Winner Is You]Was pointed out on this forum many years ago, and I've never been able to unsee it.
quote]
Except that the wheels are larger on the taxi
Very nearly bought a 4.6 HSE a couple of years ago. It drove wonderfully and looked great. Then an ML55 loomed large on the horizon and I purchased that instead. Often wonder how it would have been with the Range?
quote]
Except that the wheels are larger on the taxi
Very nearly bought a 4.6 HSE a couple of years ago. It drove wonderfully and looked great. Then an ML55 loomed large on the horizon and I purchased that instead. Often wonder how it would have been with the Range?
They have a very poor reputation, and its not always undeserved however most of the time they are misunderstood or badly repaired which just causes more problems.
I started with a 99 4.6 Thor, in 18 months of ownership I rebuilt the compressor (£15 in bits), replaced the 4 air bags (£200 in bits or so at the time) and a battery £100. I sold it for a profit after that time. Brilliant machine, centre box delete made it sound amazing.
Next was a 51 plate Vogue, paid £2400 for it, it sadly had a couple of issues but nothing major. An ABS ECU later and a door latch was all it actually needed, I spent some time fixing the onboard navigation and one or two other bits and sold it for about the purchase price after 12 months. Great car!
Then came a 56 (07 year) L322 Supercharged, bought well, it needed basically nothing through the year I had it with the exception of a PCV valve which was about £35 from landrover. I chose to have the gearbox serviced which cost a reasonable amount of money and the "specialist" made a pigs ear so three further visits to the original and then another garage to get it resolved but that's not really the cars fault. Sold that one for a profit and the owner was very happy with it. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have sold it but an E60 V10 beckoned. Great car!
Madness took over then and with the E60 behaving its self (!) I thought a cheap early L322 would be a good idea. What a pain in the backside. I paid £2500 for a 52 plated 4.4 and I doubt I managed 700 miles in it and in that time it had compressor rebuild, 2x wheel bearings, 1x caliper, disks and pads all round, new battery, 4 new tyres, full engine service, diff oil service and gearbox service (didn't help the torque converter issues or the delay selecting Drive or Reverse), it would randomly throw a management light after I changed the air filter, wipers stopped working at random, battery drain issues and used to leak oil like a colander. I'd always advised people to stay away from an 02-05 L322 and should have listened to my own advice!
So in summary, P38 - good, early L322, shocking, L322 after 2005 great! (Unless its got a TD6 in it, yuk), to be fair I don't do diesels or LPG both I consider to be more trouble than worth!
I started with a 99 4.6 Thor, in 18 months of ownership I rebuilt the compressor (£15 in bits), replaced the 4 air bags (£200 in bits or so at the time) and a battery £100. I sold it for a profit after that time. Brilliant machine, centre box delete made it sound amazing.
Next was a 51 plate Vogue, paid £2400 for it, it sadly had a couple of issues but nothing major. An ABS ECU later and a door latch was all it actually needed, I spent some time fixing the onboard navigation and one or two other bits and sold it for about the purchase price after 12 months. Great car!
Then came a 56 (07 year) L322 Supercharged, bought well, it needed basically nothing through the year I had it with the exception of a PCV valve which was about £35 from landrover. I chose to have the gearbox serviced which cost a reasonable amount of money and the "specialist" made a pigs ear so three further visits to the original and then another garage to get it resolved but that's not really the cars fault. Sold that one for a profit and the owner was very happy with it. In hindsight I probably shouldn't have sold it but an E60 V10 beckoned. Great car!
Madness took over then and with the E60 behaving its self (!) I thought a cheap early L322 would be a good idea. What a pain in the backside. I paid £2500 for a 52 plated 4.4 and I doubt I managed 700 miles in it and in that time it had compressor rebuild, 2x wheel bearings, 1x caliper, disks and pads all round, new battery, 4 new tyres, full engine service, diff oil service and gearbox service (didn't help the torque converter issues or the delay selecting Drive or Reverse), it would randomly throw a management light after I changed the air filter, wipers stopped working at random, battery drain issues and used to leak oil like a colander. I'd always advised people to stay away from an 02-05 L322 and should have listened to my own advice!
So in summary, P38 - good, early L322, shocking, L322 after 2005 great! (Unless its got a TD6 in it, yuk), to be fair I don't do diesels or LPG both I consider to be more trouble than worth!
I loved these when they came out to replace the elderly version. Trouble was I didn't realise that underneath the new swanky styling laid the same elderly components.
Still preferred the look of this one to the one that replaced it around the year 2000. I really hated the lights of the newer BMW version one.
Still preferred the look of this one to the one that replaced it around the year 2000. I really hated the lights of the newer BMW version one.
can't remember said:
It's listed at under £2.5k. You could get close to that just breaking it assuming most things are working. Even if it's a total dog it's £2.5k. It would cost more than that to fix the aircon on some of the previous brave pill nominations.
No brave pill required.
You’d have to have a gradually disintegrating naff old range rover on your drive while you break it though. No brave pill required.
Walter Sobchak said:
Why would you pay £2500 for a P38?, they’re awful, plus you can get an L322 for the same money, which are, miles nicer to drive, miles better to look at,inside and outside and a fair bit more reliable, there’s a reason that Toyota Landcruiser of the same vintage will be four times more expensive.
Awful, you have to f'ing kidding. Last of the proper Range Rovers. They do everything the classics did, just a bit better.Edited by Walter Sobchak on Sunday 15th September 11:13
L322's are nice too, although have a bit of a muffin top styling about them. And generally less nice and too German inside. As for driving, there really isn't a million miles between them. The L322 is a lot heavier and is unable to hide this. More powerful engines make them more pokey certainly, but that's true of most newer vehicles vs older variants.
300bhp/ton said:
Awful, you have to f'ing kidding. Last of the proper Range Rovers. They do everything the classics did, just a bit better.
L322's are nice too, although have a bit of a muffin top styling about them. And generally less nice and too German inside. As for driving, there really isn't a million miles between them. The L322 is a lot heavier and is unable to hide this. More powerful engines make them more pokey certainly, but that's true of most newer vehicles vs older variants.
Each to their own, I think the P38 is horrible, the interior is crap, the air suspension is comically unreliable, the thing you have to do when the alarm goes wrong turning the key in the door left,right etc like a safe combination is irritating, the 4.6 slipping liners, the 2.5 being slower than a paraplegic hedgehog, this is speaking from long term experience of the one my brother owned(he had a 4.6, I have driven a 2.5 though unfortunately)L322's are nice too, although have a bit of a muffin top styling about them. And generally less nice and too German inside. As for driving, there really isn't a million miles between them. The L322 is a lot heavier and is unable to hide this. More powerful engines make them more pokey certainly, but that's true of most newer vehicles vs older variants.
Personally I’d have a Classic over one, less to go wrong, I’d have an L322 over either though, much nicer to drive, but after owning one I’d pick a Toyota over any of them, you’re not constantly living in fear of the triple beep of doom (P38) or the bong of death (L322)
FerdiZ28 said:
can't remember said:
It's listed at under £2.5k. You could get close to that just breaking it assuming most things are working. Even if it's a total dog it's £2.5k. It would cost more than that to fix the aircon on some of the previous brave pill nominations.
No brave pill required.
You’d have to have a gradually disintegrating naff old range rover on your drive while you break it though. No brave pill required.
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