RE: Range Rover 4.6 Vogue (P38) | The Brave Pill
Discussion
Triumph Man said:
FerdiZ28 said:
can't remember said:
It's listed at under £2.5k. You could get close to that just breaking it assuming most things are working. Even if it's a total dog it's £2.5k. It would cost more than that to fix the aircon on some of the previous brave pill nominations.
No brave pill required.
You’d have to have a gradually disintegrating naff old range rover on your drive while you break it though. No brave pill required.
DonkeyApple said:
Triumph Man said:
FerdiZ28 said:
can't remember said:
It's listed at under £2.5k. You could get close to that just breaking it assuming most things are working. Even if it's a total dog it's £2.5k. It would cost more than that to fix the aircon on some of the previous brave pill nominations.
No brave pill required.
You’d have to have a gradually disintegrating naff old range rover on your drive while you break it though. No brave pill required.
Triumph Man said:
Well I must be destined for the council thread, having neither a barn or an out-house. Surely one gets the butler to strip one's car?
They don’t have the right gloves for the work. Better to leave them to polishing the chrome work etc. 
Like you, I don’t think it’s particularly polite to strip a car if it would be done in plain view of neighbours.
Walter Sobchak said:
Each to their own, I think the P38 is horrible, the interior is crap, the air suspension is comically unreliable, the thing you have to do when the alarm goes wrong turning the key in the door left,right etc like a safe combination is irritating, the 4.6 slipping liners, the 2.5 being slower than a paraplegic hedgehog, this is speaking from long term experience of the one my brother owned(he had a 4.6, I have driven a 2.5 though unfortunately)
Personally I’d have a Classic over one, less to go wrong, I’d have an L322 over either though, much nicer to drive, but after owning one I’d pick a Toyota over any of them, you’re not constantly living in fear of the triple beep of doom (P38) or the bong of death (L322)
I believe the EKA (key turning) is on other vehicles too. Not just the p38.Personally I’d have a Classic over one, less to go wrong, I’d have an L322 over either though, much nicer to drive, but after owning one I’d pick a Toyota over any of them, you’re not constantly living in fear of the triple beep of doom (P38) or the bong of death (L322)
The 4.6 is no more risk of slipped liners than most RV8's, including most fitted to classic Range Rovers and TVR's. The 2.5 also wasn't slow in it's day, not compared to other diesel 4x4's and it was more powerful than any diesel 4x4 Land Rover had produced at the time. I rather think you need to keep things in context and perspective when making sweeping unfounded judgements and claims.
DonkeyApple said:
Triumph Man said:
Well I must be destined for the council thread, having neither a barn or an out-house. Surely one gets the butler to strip one's car?
They don’t have the right gloves for the work. Better to leave them to polishing the chrome work etc. Like you, I don’t think it’s particularly polite to strip a car if it would be done in plain view of neighbours.
I really love the P38. First one was a '97 2.5 DHSE Auto, then a '97 4.6 HSE, followed by a '95 4.6 HSE and very recently a 2000 4.0 SE LPG in Bordeaux Red with the Thor engine.
Yes, these do have their fobiles are are in no way put together as well as say an X5 or ML, however, it has charm that the others simply cannot match. And, genuinely, some of the most comfortable seats you will ever experience in a car.
My most recent one was totally reliable, never overheated even in the hottest of recent weather. It had the coil spring conversion, so maybe not as cushioned as air, but less to fail. LPG made it affordable to run and the 4.0 was just about adequate in performance. It was such a complete, go-anywhere type of car. Smooth and quiet, even at 175k miles. Great view with the large glass all round. Still had great presence and made me giggle like a child on cold start. It was a big lump of metal for the money - I paid £750 with a year's MOT and the guy had just spent £700 on new brakes all round.
Also had a 2002 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue. In my opinion, a massive step up in cabin quality. Fit and finish is light years ahead of the P38. Drives much better, a lot smoother and more refined. Also with almost 300 bhp, much better performance. But, these also have their niggles and more to fail / more expensive to put right than the P38.
There really is something cool and naughty about an old Range - especially one that hasn't been chavved up with 22" alloys and blacked out windows.
I had a RR Classic back in 2011, it was a 1993 'K' Reg in metallic burgundy, velour interior. Drove well, but the BL switch gear was flimsy and cheap.
Yes, these do have their fobiles are are in no way put together as well as say an X5 or ML, however, it has charm that the others simply cannot match. And, genuinely, some of the most comfortable seats you will ever experience in a car.
My most recent one was totally reliable, never overheated even in the hottest of recent weather. It had the coil spring conversion, so maybe not as cushioned as air, but less to fail. LPG made it affordable to run and the 4.0 was just about adequate in performance. It was such a complete, go-anywhere type of car. Smooth and quiet, even at 175k miles. Great view with the large glass all round. Still had great presence and made me giggle like a child on cold start. It was a big lump of metal for the money - I paid £750 with a year's MOT and the guy had just spent £700 on new brakes all round.
Also had a 2002 L322 4.4 V8 Vogue. In my opinion, a massive step up in cabin quality. Fit and finish is light years ahead of the P38. Drives much better, a lot smoother and more refined. Also with almost 300 bhp, much better performance. But, these also have their niggles and more to fail / more expensive to put right than the P38.
There really is something cool and naughty about an old Range - especially one that hasn't been chavved up with 22" alloys and blacked out windows.
I had a RR Classic back in 2011, it was a 1993 'K' Reg in metallic burgundy, velour interior. Drove well, but the BL switch gear was flimsy and cheap.
P38s are for true enthusiasts who can competently wield a spanner. All others should steer well clear!
They are pretty simple beasts and easy to fix. The air suspension gets a lot of stick but it's pretty straightforward and most components can be fixed or refurbished relatively cheaply. The suspension air bags last >100k miles and are simple to replace. The air compressors wear out over time but can be completely rebuilt in under an hour for ~£20. The suspension valve block can similarly be refurbished for ~£20 but takes a couple of hours. Even the suspension air drier can be completely refurbished for <£20 and takes about 15mins.
The golden rule is not to buy Land Rover branded parts - buy the unbranded but OEM equivalent - OEM being the important bit as there are a lot of aftermarket pattern parts that are of dubious quality. For example, I have just replaced a half shaft oil seal on my 118k mile 4.6 Vogue using an OEM seal at a total cost of £2.82 and 90 minutes work. The very same Land Rover branded seal is £22.32!
They have a multitude of ECUs which are very, very expensive but reasonably reliable and replacements can be bought via breakers on eBay for a fraction of the price of a new part. The only really weak unit is the top line Harmon Kardon audio DSP amplifier - they do seem to have a shelf life, are no longer available, can't be repaired and like the proverbial hen's teeth to obtain second hand.
As I said, they are not for the faint hearted but a brave pill is not required for reasonably competent DIYer's - just plenty of time on their hands!.
They are pretty simple beasts and easy to fix. The air suspension gets a lot of stick but it's pretty straightforward and most components can be fixed or refurbished relatively cheaply. The suspension air bags last >100k miles and are simple to replace. The air compressors wear out over time but can be completely rebuilt in under an hour for ~£20. The suspension valve block can similarly be refurbished for ~£20 but takes a couple of hours. Even the suspension air drier can be completely refurbished for <£20 and takes about 15mins.
The golden rule is not to buy Land Rover branded parts - buy the unbranded but OEM equivalent - OEM being the important bit as there are a lot of aftermarket pattern parts that are of dubious quality. For example, I have just replaced a half shaft oil seal on my 118k mile 4.6 Vogue using an OEM seal at a total cost of £2.82 and 90 minutes work. The very same Land Rover branded seal is £22.32!
They have a multitude of ECUs which are very, very expensive but reasonably reliable and replacements can be bought via breakers on eBay for a fraction of the price of a new part. The only really weak unit is the top line Harmon Kardon audio DSP amplifier - they do seem to have a shelf life, are no longer available, can't be repaired and like the proverbial hen's teeth to obtain second hand.
As I said, they are not for the faint hearted but a brave pill is not required for reasonably competent DIYer's - just plenty of time on their hands!.
300bhp/ton said:
I believe the EKA (key turning) is on other vehicles too. Not just the p38.
The 4.6 is no more risk of slipped liners than most RV8's, including most fitted to classic Range Rovers and TVR's. The 2.5 also wasn't slow in it's day, not compared to other diesel 4x4's and it was more powerful than any diesel 4x4 Land Rover had produced at the time. I rather think you need to keep things in context and perspective when making sweeping unfounded judgements and claims.
I’d hardly say it’s an unfounded judgement or indeed an unfounded claim having had long term experience of a family member having endless issues with one, having known a fair few others who’ve had the very same issues with them.The 4.6 is no more risk of slipped liners than most RV8's, including most fitted to classic Range Rovers and TVR's. The 2.5 also wasn't slow in it's day, not compared to other diesel 4x4's and it was more powerful than any diesel 4x4 Land Rover had produced at the time. I rather think you need to keep things in context and perspective when making sweeping unfounded judgements and claims.
P38s arn’t well built and arn’t reliable, and to a lot of people arn’t desirable either, you like them, that’s great, glad you enjoyed owning one, but you’re not going to convince me or a lot of other people (including some on this very thread by the looks of it) that they’re a good car.
Walter Sobchak said:
I’d hardly say it’s an unfounded judgement or indeed an unfounded claim having had long term experience of a family member having endless issues with one, having known a fair few others who’ve had the very same issues with them.
P38s arn’t well built and arn’t reliable, and to a lot of people arn’t desirable either, you like them, that’s great, glad you enjoyed owning one, but you’re not going to convince me or a lot of other people (including some on this very thread by the looks of it) that they’re a good car.
I didn't say that. I just countered your flawed arguments about slipped liners and the performance of the 2.5P38s arn’t well built and arn’t reliable, and to a lot of people arn’t desirable either, you like them, that’s great, glad you enjoyed owning one, but you’re not going to convince me or a lot of other people (including some on this very thread by the looks of it) that they’re a good car.
300bhp/ton said:
DonkeyApple said:
Like you, I don’t think it’s particularly polite to strip a car if it would be done in plain view of neighbours.
But that might be as you portray yourself on here, as rather wealthy with outbuildings and barns and such.300bhp/ton said:
Walter Sobchak said:
I’d hardly say it’s an unfounded judgement or indeed an unfounded claim having had long term experience of a family member having endless issues with one, having known a fair few others who’ve had the very same issues with them.
P38s arn’t well built and arn’t reliable, and to a lot of people arn’t desirable either, you like them, that’s great, glad you enjoyed owning one, but you’re not going to convince me or a lot of other people (including some on this very thread by the looks of it) that they’re a good car.
I didn't say that. I just countered your flawed arguments about slipped liners and the performance of the 2.5P38s arn’t well built and arn’t reliable, and to a lot of people arn’t desirable either, you like them, that’s great, glad you enjoyed owning one, but you’re not going to convince me or a lot of other people (including some on this very thread by the looks of it) that they’re a good car.
DonkeyApple said:
. And the performance of the 2.5 is categorically not appropriate for a vehicle of that era or prestige. It may be the greatest power plant on the planet but it was a turd in terms of its application in a premium SUV.
What other diesel SUV's, premium or otherwise out performed the 2.5 DSE in 1994 for the market?Cold said:
Got to love the selective choice of the pictures which attempt to show the L322's supposed inferior off-road prowess compared with the P38A. Utter nonsense as usual and can safely be ignored.
What is you exact problem? Nothing selective at all.First Google search was "L322 off road"
https://www.google.com/search?q=l322+off+road&...
Second Google search was "p38 off road"
https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS800U...
Follow either link and see for yourself. I just looked for pictures of technical off road obsticles and those showing the suspension travel.
As you seem to be dismissing my views and proclaiming yourself an expert, Why not share with the group some supporting information and evidence that the L322 is superior off road?
And for clarity -- yes I am calling you out on this.
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