RE: Toyota announces V8 Land Cruiser 'Namib'

[Equus]

eldar said:

But everywhere. In every niche, surviving a few global extinctions. Great stuff evolution.

None of them recognisable as dinosaurs any more though...it seems a poor argument for saying that the Landcruiser is right, because it's remained primitive, whilst the Defender is wrong because it has evolved.

In fact, it's a damned good argument for the converse.

[SonicShadow]

Equus said:

None of them recognisable as dinosaurs any more though...it seems a poor argument for saying that the Landcruiser is right, because it's remained primitive, whilst the Defender is wrong because it has evolved.

In fact, it's a damned good argument for the converse.

You realise there's a "modern" Landcruiser also in production right? The 70 series is a utilitarian option aimed at very specific markets like SA, Australia, NZ etc where they need very strong, reliable workhorse vehicles that will have no issues being "abused" in the outback, doing 1000's of kms at a time along dirt tracks week after week, and should anything fail the repairs are reasonable simple and the parts are not too expensive. It also costs a fair bit less than the current gen 200 series Landcruiser to buy.

[Equus]

SonicShadow said:

You realise there's a "modern" Landcruiser also in production right?

Yes.

You realise that this isn't it, right?

[Condi]

SonicShadow said:

You realise there's a "modern" Landcruiser also in production right? The 70 series is a utilitarian option aimed at very specific markets like SA, Australia, NZ etc where they need very strong, reliable workhorse vehicles that will have no issues being "abused" in the outback, doing 1000's of kms at a time along dirt tracks week after week, and should anything fail the repairs are reasonable simple and the parts are not too expensive. It also costs a fair bit less than the current gen 200 series Landcruiser to buy.

Considering the technology and spec involved, the 'new' 70's series it is incredibly expensive at £50k. Basically a ladder chassis, live axles, coiled spring suspension, pressed panel body, and a mass produce Izuzu diesel engine. In volume it would be cheap and quick to produce. Toyota can only afford to produce them because they have so many other cash cow vehicles whereas Land Rover don't have that luxury and need each model to be profitable in volume.

[NomduJour]

SonicShadow said:

should anything fail the repairs are reasonable simple and the parts are not too expensive

I’m sure every bush mechanic can’t wait to set his lump hammer on a common-rail piezo direct-injected turbo diesel (although presumably this one doesn’t have the DPF system causing so many problems in Australia). Maybe he’d have more luck with the ABS and electronic traction and stability control (vital, given that the back axle is four inches narrower than the front)?

[Kubevoid]

Quite rightly the majority view LR as a school run fashion accessory which is likely to fail in short order, while a Toyota LC as being near indestructible for use in remote locations. I'm sure LR fans will grumble, but you can't argue with the world who uses them in the above ways. Pick your weapon accordingly... Trinket or Tool.

[troika]

Absolutely fantastic. Meanwhile, the new defender might just about cope with a slightly slippery Waitrose car park in the winter before being recovered on the back of a tow truck to a shiny glass dealership who can’t fix it.

[NomduJour]

Famed reliability:

https://www.carsguide.com.au/car-news/toyota-hit-w...

https://www.motoring.com.au/toyota-front-issues/

https://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2019-...ssues/10821...

https://mr4x4.com.au/1gd-ftv-dustgate-asked-expert...

https://www.turbochargersplus.com/turbocharger-tro...

Edited by NomduJour on Tuesday 17th September 11:49

[SonicShadow]

Equus said:

SonicShadow said:

You realise there's a "modern" Landcruiser also in production right?

Yes.

You realise that this isn't it, right?

Obviously, if you read the rest of the post you removed from your quote. The point is they are two different vehicles for two different markets, with the 70 series remaining popular where it is sold because it does its intended job extremely well.

[Equus]

SonicShadow said:

The point is they are two different vehicles for two different markets, with the 70 series remaining popular where it is sold because it does its intended job extremely well.

So a bit like the rapidly diminishing niche that dinosaurs found themselves in, just before they went extinct?

[J4CKO]

Kubevoid said:

Quite rightly the majority view LR as a school run fashion accessory which is likely to fail in short order, while a Toyota LC as being near indestructible for use in remote locations. I'm sure LR fans will grumble, but you can't argue with the world who uses them in the above ways. Pick your weapon accordingly... Trinket or Tool.

I think "Trinket" is a bit unfair, and people do need to take kids to school and probably would prefer something they like, that isnt bouncy and comparatively uncomfortable.

I suspect the average owners of these are perhaps less bothered than those who go on about it, they fancy one buy it, enjoy it and perhaps dont put so much effort into it as those who feel the need to denigrate it.

Do you not have kids or home school them ?

I think I am not alone in assuming you have an old Land Rover in the Zombie Apocalypse style ?

[Talk2Dave]

I prefer the SUV version they make, the 76 Land Cruiser, it's like the japanese G-wagen without the fluff




Being a pom, i wanted a Defender, but bought a Prado instead, no regrets

[Kubevoid]

J4cko, I just dislike the lack of honesty of LR. They promote themselves as being rough, tough, dependable products. Yet have a habit of failures. In addition people spending a lot of money to buy into this branding nonsense is just daft.

Just look at the outback, or deserts in the middle east. No one trusts them for a reason. They are for pretenders who wish to be seen.

I don't own an off roader. However if I did, an LC or non Arab spec G Wagen would do.

[J4CKO]

Kubevoid said:

J4cko, I just dislike the lack of honesty of LR. They promote themselves as being rough, tough, dependable products. Yet have a habit of failures. In addition people spending a lot of money to buy into this branding nonsense is just daft.

Just look at the outback, or deserts in the middle east. No one trusts them for a reason. They are for pretenders who wish to be seen.

I don't own an off roader. However if I did, an LC or non Arab spec G Wagen would do.

They make stuff people want to buy, they obviously manage that despite the reliability issues, that hopefully they will get sorted out with this new model. I dont think LR claim reliablity in their ads, they are selling a lifestyle, one that perhaps includes frequent trips to the dealers.

People, and we all do it to an extent want certain things, illogically, need and want are so different, 90 percent of LR/RR owners could make do with a Ford Focus or something, its a shame these wont be built in the UK though.

[300bhp/ton]

Condi said:

Also... any know the rules on importing one? Understand it can't be sold here, but could it be imported by a person with such means? Not that I do, mind.

Would be the same as importing from the USA, Oz or Japan. Would need an IVA. I'm not sure what would need changing in order to meet the IVA tests, but I suspect probably not a huge amount.

[havoc]

300bhp/ton said:

Condi said:

Also... any know the rules on importing one? Understand it can't be sold here, but could it be imported by a person with such means? Not that I do, mind.

Would be the same as importing from the USA, Oz or Japan. Would need an IVA. I'm not sure what would need changing in order to meet the IVA tests, but I suspect probably not a huge amount.

Or you could buy a new one of these from a Toyota (or the equivalent Nissan or Isuzu) dealership in the UK:-



https://www.toyota.co.uk/world-of-toyota/stories-n...





https://www.westwaynissan.co.uk/new-vans/nissan-na...

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/nav...




https://www.isuzu.co.uk/arctictrucksat35

[300bhp/ton]

J4CKO said:

Be interesting to compare this and the new Defender back to back, on road and off.


Pretty sure the LR will be better on road by a pretty huge margin

Yes it should be. But it depends on what goal posts you set to measure this by. Just trundling about or going to the shops both are fully functional and capable. The Toyota may not be as quiet or as compliant. But in reality would be no less comfortable than using a Fiesta, Mini Cooper or Fait 500.

Tactile finish and design of the materials may visually appear older too, but as a driver you should be spending most of your time looking out of the windows, not at the interior trim.

If you want to compare lap times and the like, the Defender would likely be miles ahead. But the reality is, who would really care about such things in vehicles like this.

However yes, I would expect the new Land Rover to be far more 'car like' and civilised on the road. But it may lack some of the charm, character and fun of driving a 4x4.

J4CKO said:

and given the same tyres

And that may be a real sticking point for the Defender. Very limited choice of "proper" off road tyres available in the rim sizes offered. And pretty much any that are, would end up being too big to fit in the arches, thus not actually an option.

Also low profile tyres are generally poorer performers off road, certainly in desert sand and on rocks.

J4CKO said:

, cant imagine its far behind off road, if it even is, but would need an Off Road expert to explain why one would be better than the other.

In certain terrain there is probably quite a gulf of difference. The Land Rover has plenty of trickery up it's sleeves, but it heavily relies on it all working. One fault on a sensor could be enough to leave it stranded. The Land Rover would also be more prone to damage due to the acres of plastic and vulnerable bodywork. The Toyota has a square body and it's shape means it would be less likely to take trail damage. The bumpers are also designed to be impacted and survive. Something that can and does happen off road.


On a single day, the Land Rover would probably go most of the same places as the Toyota. Although if it was your own vehicle and your own money (and you weren't rich enough to not care). There would likely be places and obsticles you just wouldn't want to do in it.

[300bhp/ton]

J4CKO said:

Kubevoid said:

Quite rightly the majority view LR as a school run fashion accessory which is likely to fail in short order, while a Toyota LC as being near indestructible for use in remote locations. I'm sure LR fans will grumble, but you can't argue with the world who uses them in the above ways. Pick your weapon accordingly... Trinket or Tool.

I think "Trinket" is a bit unfair, and people do need to take kids to school and probably would prefer something they like, that isnt bouncy and comparatively uncomfortable less comfortable.

EFA

There is a difference.

[Cotty]

Just needs a camping rig on the back with a waco fridge freezer

https://www.redarc.com.au/blog/getting-to-know-sha...

[300bhp/ton]

havoc said:

Or you could buy a new one of these from a Toyota (or the equivalent Nissan or Isuzu) dealership in the UK:-



https://www.toyota.co.uk/world-of-toyota/stories-n...





https://www.westwaynissan.co.uk/new-vans/nissan-na...

https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/nav...




https://www.isuzu.co.uk/arctictrucksat35

Nice trucks I like many of them

All IFS though, no lives axles these days. And it can make a difference.