RE: Tesla beats Taycan 'ring time...
Discussion
Dale at BTG said:
... so let me just say that those Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres aren't recognisable as the versions you can buy, the car is a next-gen three-motor test mule with no relation to a current model, it's completely gutted to the last nut and bolt...
I'll take his POV as gospel.I wouldn't be surprised if this car has a smaller battery that can only manage 22Km between charges.
Does anyone think this is anywhere close to the spec of a Tesla you’ll be able to pick up in a showroom next month?
As opposed to the Porsche, which you definitely will be able to.
This looks like a mule, possibly with the forthcoming Roadster running gear, custom suspension, brakes and tyres, and if I were a real cynic I’d say 3/4 of the battery removed to lose 500kg, running a range of 25km.
Give Porsche a fortnight and they’ll probably be able to beat it, with their standard “Turbo S” Taycan.
As opposed to the Porsche, which you definitely will be able to.
This looks like a mule, possibly with the forthcoming Roadster running gear, custom suspension, brakes and tyres, and if I were a real cynic I’d say 3/4 of the battery removed to lose 500kg, running a range of 25km.
Give Porsche a fortnight and they’ll probably be able to beat it, with their standard “Turbo S” Taycan.
Dave Hedgehog said:
I think Jonny posted they where spanking the Taycan all morning when they shot this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP9kokeyxGU
Tesla driver drained the battery of his M3P on track with only the SoC affecting performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fzPWJfTmnY
I did see the Jonny Smith piece. but usual caveats should apply with a tightly controlled manufacturer test with a preproduction car.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TP9kokeyxGU
Tesla driver drained the battery of his M3P on track with only the SoC affecting performance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fzPWJfTmnY
Having said all that I think Porsche probably will turn out to be a better bet for this sort of performance driving.
S1KRR said:
I'll take his POV as gospel.
I wouldn't be surprised if this car has a smaller battery that can only manage 22Km between charges.
I would. Using the Tesla battery architecture such a small battery would only be able discharge at a rate equal to about 50bhp! A small battery isn't just like having a small fuel tank, but also a small fuel pump.I wouldn't be surprised if this car has a smaller battery that can only manage 22Km between charges.
Definitely need to wait and see what the time will be. But there are shed load of caveats with the Tesla and it's claim of being faster than the Porsche.
First of all it is blindingly obvious the Tesla isn't a stock car. Bolt on aero, lowered and most likely stiffened suspension, bigger wheels and stickier rubber. And what is with the tinted windows? Is it missing a few mod cons inside? What about tweaks to the batteries to provide as much go-go juice as possible for that shot at the lap time?
If it was a stock P100S rolled out the of the show room that repeated the times on a consistent basis then it worth a pat on the back. But i sadly think this is a one trick pony that is purely put out there to say "Nothing beats a Telsa"
First of all it is blindingly obvious the Tesla isn't a stock car. Bolt on aero, lowered and most likely stiffened suspension, bigger wheels and stickier rubber. And what is with the tinted windows? Is it missing a few mod cons inside? What about tweaks to the batteries to provide as much go-go juice as possible for that shot at the lap time?
If it was a stock P100S rolled out the of the show room that repeated the times on a consistent basis then it worth a pat on the back. But i sadly think this is a one trick pony that is purely put out there to say "Nothing beats a Telsa"
kambites said:
Surely such a battery wouldn't be able to provide the current required?
fblm said:
I would. Using the Tesla battery architecture such a small battery would only be able discharge at a rate equal to about 50bhp! A small battery isn't just like having a small fuel tank, but also a small fuel pump.
Lets assume that Tesla have been working on a "high output, short life" SPORTS battery for a while shall we and then "assume" that they'll need to test it at some point, in a car, on a race track 
Teslas whole future concept for making money is battery tech. Not the cars themselves.
Again, it's interesting to read the polarising views of Porsche fans and Tesla fans - with a smattering of folks who are a little more balanced between the two.
Remember, Tesla first launched the Model S in 2012, 8 years ahead of where Porsche are.
The Taycan is physically smaller than an S (in fact closer to a Model 3), but nearly as heavy as the S.
Yes, Porsche have way more sporting & racing experience and especially around the ring, and undoubtedly this Model S is not one you can buy yet. But as others have said Elon has acknowledged that this is the upcoming 'Plaid', 3 motor version and is likely to be running the same 2170 batteries and architecture that the Model 3 does. It's also possible that they are using Maxwell technology batteries / supercapacitors too.
I also expect Porsche / VW Group have bought a few Tesla's and ripped them apart to see what's inside them and learn where they can (I'm sure without infringing IP!)
I think we should just be grateful that Elon has led the way and others are now trying to catch up. Good for the consumer and good for the planet. Though I still want a N/A, petrol, manual gearbox toy in my garage.
And yes, I've owned a 997 and a P85+, so admire both Porsche and Tesla.
Remember, Tesla first launched the Model S in 2012, 8 years ahead of where Porsche are.
The Taycan is physically smaller than an S (in fact closer to a Model 3), but nearly as heavy as the S.
Yes, Porsche have way more sporting & racing experience and especially around the ring, and undoubtedly this Model S is not one you can buy yet. But as others have said Elon has acknowledged that this is the upcoming 'Plaid', 3 motor version and is likely to be running the same 2170 batteries and architecture that the Model 3 does. It's also possible that they are using Maxwell technology batteries / supercapacitors too.
I also expect Porsche / VW Group have bought a few Tesla's and ripped them apart to see what's inside them and learn where they can (I'm sure without infringing IP!)
I think we should just be grateful that Elon has led the way and others are now trying to catch up. Good for the consumer and good for the planet. Though I still want a N/A, petrol, manual gearbox toy in my garage.
And yes, I've owned a 997 and a P85+, so admire both Porsche and Tesla.
Ok, so we are getting into a Porsche vs Tesla Pissing competition, the seriousness and importance of which has not seen the Blur vs Oasis battles of the 90s.
It is interesting but ultimately b
ks isnt it ? put your average punter in even the cheapest (all relative...)Model S and give it full throttle, and pants will be pooped, same for the Taycan, they are all so many degrees of overkill in terms of acceleration anyway. Now the "Plaid" (which I believe is colonial for Tartan) will have 900 bhp or therabouts
I think with EV's they do it as it makes a good party piece and its not hugely hard to connect electrons to motors and make it fast enough for John Stapp to think it a bit scary without a huge downside or compromise.
Part of me is thinking, if this is what they can do now, with current tech, what can they do down the road ?
Other half says, am more interested in EV's with adequate performance, decent range that arent massively heavy and quite as expensive, I suppose this filters down, nearest value offering is the model 3, then a gap to Leafs and Zoes which are worthy but a bit dull looking, need something a bit funkier and less forgettable, something to create a buzz and become a thing for the car buying public, something more can afford and everyone knows what it is.
It is interesting but ultimately b
ks isnt it ? put your average punter in even the cheapest (all relative...)Model S and give it full throttle, and pants will be pooped, same for the Taycan, they are all so many degrees of overkill in terms of acceleration anyway. Now the "Plaid" (which I believe is colonial for Tartan) will have 900 bhp or theraboutsI think with EV's they do it as it makes a good party piece and its not hugely hard to connect electrons to motors and make it fast enough for John Stapp to think it a bit scary without a huge downside or compromise.
Part of me is thinking, if this is what they can do now, with current tech, what can they do down the road ?
Other half says, am more interested in EV's with adequate performance, decent range that arent massively heavy and quite as expensive, I suppose this filters down, nearest value offering is the model 3, then a gap to Leafs and Zoes which are worthy but a bit dull looking, need something a bit funkier and less forgettable, something to create a buzz and become a thing for the car buying public, something more can afford and everyone knows what it is.
Max_Torque said:
I think it's worth noting a couple of actual facts:
1) Porsche have years of experience of people claiming they've beaten their models laps time around the ring. It makes no difference to their sales. If you want a Porsche, you'll buy one
2) Often, it turns out that the "beaten" carries a few important caveats, such as "not actually a production car" or "not actually on production tyres" etc etc
3) The current Taycan lap, is i suggest, nowhere near the maximum performance of that car. Go watch the lap (it's on you tube) the car uses no kerbs, misses apexes, and in fact, the driver at no point is "on it" at any significant level. If you want a comparison, watch the Taycan lap side by side with the Renault Trophy RS lap (7.40 plays 7.42) and the differences in attack and commitment are extremely obvious. At some points, the RS is 20 kph (yes 20!) faster at the apex, and brakes yards later
Here's what i think might happen:
1) Tesla will trumpet they are "faster"
2) Porsche will give them a few weeks to bask in their glory, then quietly go out, throw their not inconsiderable Ring Team at it, and claim it back
3) In the mean time, people will write total bolleux like "Tesla CRUSHES Porsche" etc etc
Agreed as to the next steps of what will happen...1) Porsche have years of experience of people claiming they've beaten their models laps time around the ring. It makes no difference to their sales. If you want a Porsche, you'll buy one
2) Often, it turns out that the "beaten" carries a few important caveats, such as "not actually a production car" or "not actually on production tyres" etc etc
3) The current Taycan lap, is i suggest, nowhere near the maximum performance of that car. Go watch the lap (it's on you tube) the car uses no kerbs, misses apexes, and in fact, the driver at no point is "on it" at any significant level. If you want a comparison, watch the Taycan lap side by side with the Renault Trophy RS lap (7.40 plays 7.42) and the differences in attack and commitment are extremely obvious. At some points, the RS is 20 kph (yes 20!) faster at the apex, and brakes yards later
Here's what i think might happen:
1) Tesla will trumpet they are "faster"
2) Porsche will give them a few weeks to bask in their glory, then quietly go out, throw their not inconsiderable Ring Team at it, and claim it back
3) In the mean time, people will write total bolleux like "Tesla CRUSHES Porsche" etc etc
S1KRR said:
kambites said:
Surely such a battery wouldn't be able to provide the current required?
fblm said:
I would. Using the Tesla battery architecture such a small battery would only be able discharge at a rate equal to about 50bhp! A small battery isn't just like having a small fuel tank, but also a small fuel pump.
Lets assume that Tesla have been working on a "high output, short life" SPORTS battery for a while shall we and then "assume" that they'll need to test it at some point, in a car, on a race track Teslas whole future concept for making money is battery tech. Not the cars themselves.
I know some Tesla drivers. They also wear Apple watches, often work from home, and say how good their cars are. They've all floored them to see how amazing the acceleration is. They haven't done so multiple times in a row. They haven't brought it on track, because... well... the thought has never entered their heads. None of them are car people, they're tech heads that like the newest & shiniest. Their iPhone costs £50/month, their Tesla again is a monthly cost, rarely bought outright. It's just something different, and once the mainstream manufacturers make half-decent affordable electric cars available, Tesla will feel the pinch.
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