RE: Tesla beats Taycan 'ring time...
Discussion
tertius said:
Clarification from Top Gear on the drag race: https://t.co/elvYkfE7uY?amp=1
except they avoided the important stuff lol1. License plate indicates the Model S was pre-Raven, so an older model was used.
2. Video incontrovertibly shows that the battery was NOT preconditioned.
3. Video also shows that the Tesla almost certainly wasn't in launch mode.
4. The times you claim to have recorded are dramatically different than those posted independently by dozens of owners with actual 2019 Model S vehicles.
yonex said:
SuperPav said:
To be fair, that statement can be used by some to describe Aston Martin or Lotus, but nobody's calling them "not an actual car manufacturer".
Also, I'd have to check my numbers but pretty sure Tesla's volume is higher than Porsche's in 2019...
And no, not a "fanboi", in fact my job is the other car in this thread. But the Tesla/anti-Tesla fanaticism is getting a bit tedious.
I’m not anti TeslaAlso, I'd have to check my numbers but pretty sure Tesla's volume is higher than Porsche's in 2019...
And no, not a "fanboi", in fact my job is the other car in this thread. But the Tesla/anti-Tesla fanaticism is getting a bit tedious.
Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
FeelingLucky said:
Genuinely not sure who you think you're kidding.
Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
Yes, in global terms that's not alot is it. What is it 8 million Golfs, 44 million Corrola's since the beginning?Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
Let's see how a loss making 'manufacturer' does in the next 3-5 years against the mainstream. We will see who is kidding
FeelingLucky said:
Genuinely not sure who you think you're kidding.
Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
How does Tesla's total vehicle production compare to Lotus? I'd guess Tesla have sold more cars, by a fair margin. Have Tesla sold more cars than Ferrari?Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
I'm not a fanboy, just can't understand the irrational hate some people have for Tesla / Musk.
AW111 said:
FeelingLucky said:
Genuinely not sure who you think you're kidding.
Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
How does Tesla's total vehicle production compare to Lotus? I'd guess Tesla have sold more cars, by a fair margin. Have Tesla sold more cars than Ferrari?Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
I'm not a fanboy, just can't understand the irrational hate some people have for Tesla / Musk.
Dave Hedgehog said:
tertius said:
Clarification from Top Gear on the drag race: https://t.co/elvYkfE7uY?amp=1
except they avoided the important stuff lol1. License plate indicates the Model S was pre-Raven, so an older model was used.
2. Video incontrovertibly shows that the battery was NOT preconditioned.
3. Video also shows that the Tesla almost certainly wasn't in launch mode.
4. The times you claim to have recorded are dramatically different than those posted independently by dozens of owners with actual 2019 Model S vehicles.
Surely we can all just agree the Porsche is chuffing fast, as is the Tesla. What really matters isn’t 1 tenth of a second. It’s the hundreds of other boring attributes that make a car a car.
If the Model S holding some utterly trivial performance measure record is the only thing that makes it an attractive purchase proposition, then Tesla are in more trouble than we thought. In reality it’s not. People that worship Tesla are still going to buy one over a Taycan. People who worship Porsche will clearly buy the Taycan, and a number of floating consumers will switch from a Model S to a Taycan and vice versa.
I’m still fairly sure the Taycan will probably beat the Model S in most acceleration tests. Both magazines that have pitched the two against each other have shown the Taycan to be quicker, but let’s just see what happens.
Analysing the reflections on the Tesla’s dash at frame 4592 whilst zooming and enhancing the lower right quadrant of the image to see that the 749301 pixel in the instrument pack was momentarily showing that the driver was only at 99.7% throttle prior to launch which, according to Dragtimes results in a .005s deficit from optimal acceleration performance does nothing other than prove the hilarious fanatical behaviour of some people on the internet.
Dave. Give it a rest mate. Stop desperately grasping at straws, take it on the chin that a Model S might actually be out gunned by another car, put down your keyboard and go for a drive. Enjoy your car and remind yourself that, in your eyes, you bought the car you wanted. Good on you. No one else is going to matter or care. Let people buy Porsche’s and Tesla’s and Jags and Mercs and Audi’s. It won’t change the enjoyment you get from your own car.
i actually dont give a monkeys about the model S, would never buy one in a million years, i would buy a taycan tomorrow if er indoors would let me get a second mortgage 
but this was s
tty lazy journalism, if your going compare to cars in a head to head dont start faking it, adding crap data
set both cars up for optimum performance and go, once, the result is the result
but this was s
tty lazy journalism, if your going compare to cars in a head to head dont start faking it, adding crap data set both cars up for optimum performance and go, once, the result is the result
Edited by Dave Hedgehog on Friday 1st November 15:50
yonex said:
FeelingLucky said:
Genuinely not sure who you think you're kidding.
Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
Yes, in global terms that's not alot is it. What is it 8 million Golfs, 44 million Corrola's since the beginning?Your "not an actual car manufacturer" jibe is utterly laughable when aimed at a company who has designed, manufactured and sold several hundred thousand cars.
Let's see how a loss making 'manufacturer' does in the next 3-5 years against the mainstream. We will see who is kidding
Tesla will produce 350,000 or so cars this year (260,000 in the first 3 quarters so far).
Yes, they may go under, but they are making and selling a lot of cars, and for a good profit. Most of the profit goes into expansion - they're not bleeding funds like Uber.
AW111 said:
Now you're just being stupid. 8 million golfs in what, 40 years?
Tesla will produce 350,000 or so cars this year (260,000 in the first 3 quarters so far).
Yes, they may go under, but they are making and selling a lot of cars, and for a good profit. Most of the profit goes into expansion - they're not bleeding funds like Uber.
The guy quoted total production from Tesla, like I said, it is not much in the great scheme of things when looking at totals, stupid, you decide? Tesla will produce 350,000 or so cars this year (260,000 in the first 3 quarters so far).
Yes, they may go under, but they are making and selling a lot of cars, and for a good profit. Most of the profit goes into expansion - they're not bleeding funds like Uber.
And no, I don't think they will survive, because the one USP that they had is now a focus for others. The entire thread has been an attempt to talk up the performance of Tesla in respect to the Taycan, now this has been propely debunked the Tesla fanboys aren't very pleased. At the end of the day they are both just dull EV's, but at least the Taycan will have a 'proper' dealer network from a manufacturer that actually worried about things like the interior and how a car feels. The profit/loss thing is a moot point with old shovel face backing the project. Plenty of options now for the EV interested driver, which is absolutely down to Tesla, for that they will be remembered in the history books.
yonex said:
The guy quoted total production from Tesla, like I said, it is not much in the great scheme of things when looking at totals, stupid, you decide?
And no, I don't think they will survive, because the one USP that they had is now a focus for others. The entire thread has been an attempt to talk up the performance of Tesla in respect to the Taycan, now this has been propely debunked the Tesla fanboys aren't very pleased. At the end of the day they are both just dull EV's, but at least the Taycan will have a 'proper' dealer network from a manufacturer that actually worried about things like the interior and how a car feels. The profit/loss thing is a moot point with old shovel face backing the project. Plenty of options now for the EV interested driver, which is absolutely down to Tesla, for that they will be remembered in the history books.
you dont half talk rubbishAnd no, I don't think they will survive, because the one USP that they had is now a focus for others. The entire thread has been an attempt to talk up the performance of Tesla in respect to the Taycan, now this has been propely debunked the Tesla fanboys aren't very pleased. At the end of the day they are both just dull EV's, but at least the Taycan will have a 'proper' dealer network from a manufacturer that actually worried about things like the interior and how a car feels. The profit/loss thing is a moot point with old shovel face backing the project. Plenty of options now for the EV interested driver, which is absolutely down to Tesla, for that they will be remembered in the history books.
1) the S is a wafty fast barge, the Taycan a performance car, there in different markets, oh wait porsche has made an EV so nobody is going to buy any tesla every again ....
2) performance is not the only thing about Tesla, 95% of the 'PR' from Tesla is about self driving, they rarely mention performance. Their efficiency is also higher than the Porkers.
3) proper dealer networks, dont make me laugh, a bunch of stealers out to scam you for every option, insurances and finance options they can, who then charge you £35 a litre for oil they paid £1.80 for. And in the case of Porker allocate all the special cars to flippers so they can sell them for massively over book. The Tesla buying experience is vastly better than all that crap IMO
4) the interior is fine, there's a youtube vid on a model 3 uber driver who just hot 67k miles with 5k passengers and the interior has held up better than leather
5) as for feel never driven the S but the M3 drives better than any of the modern german M/RS/AMG cars i have driven
Driving feel wise, the Model S vs Taycan is similar to an S-Class vs a Panamera. One is wafty and cushiony, the other precise and engaging.
There's room and appetite for both. Isn't it nice to have more than one fast EV to choose from? Why does one have to KILL the other? This ain't EV Battle Royale...
There's room and appetite for both. Isn't it nice to have more than one fast EV to choose from? Why does one have to KILL the other? This ain't EV Battle Royale...
SuperPav said:
Driving feel wise, the Model S vs Taycan is similar to an S-Class vs a Panamera. One is wafty and cushiony, the other precise and engaging.
There's room and appetite for both. Isn't it nice to have more than one fast EV to choose from? Why does one have to KILL the other? This ain't EV Battle Royale...
I'd be surprised if the Tesla feels as luxurious or well put together as an S Class from an interior perspective?There's room and appetite for both. Isn't it nice to have more than one fast EV to choose from? Why does one have to KILL the other? This ain't EV Battle Royale...
E65Ross said:
I'd be surprised if the Tesla feels as luxurious or well put together as an S Class from an interior perspective?
It does not, hence my comment being with regard only to driving/handling. What the Tesla does do is slightly make you question what luxury is, particularly with the model 3. Yes it’s not as accurately put together and the materials are cheaper than in an Audi or Merc but the overall feel from the minimalist and clean interior is actually quite “luxurious” in an unconventional way.. “strangely nice” is one way of putting it.
RacerMike said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
tertius said:
Clarification from Top Gear on the drag race: https://t.co/elvYkfE7uY?amp=1
except they avoided the important stuff lol1. License plate indicates the Model S was pre-Raven, so an older model was used.
2. Video incontrovertibly shows that the battery was NOT preconditioned.
3. Video also shows that the Tesla almost certainly wasn't in launch mode.
4. The times you claim to have recorded are dramatically different than those posted independently by dozens of owners with actual 2019 Model S vehicles.
Surely we can all just agree the Porsche is chuffing fast, as is the Tesla. What really matters isn’t 1 tenth of a second. It’s the hundreds of other boring attributes that make a car a car.
If the Model S holding some utterly trivial performance measure record is the only thing that makes it an attractive purchase proposition, then Tesla are in more trouble than we thought. In reality it’s not. People that worship Tesla are still going to buy one over a Taycan. People who worship Porsche will clearly buy the Taycan, and a number of floating consumers will switch from a Model S to a Taycan and vice versa.
I’m still fairly sure the Taycan will probably beat the Model S in most acceleration tests. Both magazines that have pitched the two against each other have shown the Taycan to be quicker, but let’s just see what happens.
Analysing the reflections on the Tesla’s dash at frame 4592 whilst zooming and enhancing the lower right quadrant of the image to see that the 749301 pixel in the instrument pack was momentarily showing that the driver was only at 99.7% throttle prior to launch which, according to Dragtimes results in a .005s deficit from optimal acceleration performance does nothing other than prove the hilarious fanatical behaviour of some people on the internet.
Dave. Give it a rest mate. Stop desperately grasping at straws, take it on the chin that a Model S might actually be out gunned by another car, put down your keyboard and go for a drive. Enjoy your car and remind yourself that, in your eyes, you bought the car you wanted. Good on you. No one else is going to matter or care. Let people buy Porsche’s and Tesla’s and Jags and Mercs and Audi’s. It won’t change the enjoyment you get from your own car.
But, I have said it before and I will keep saying it - 0-60 and 1/4 mile runs are click-bait for YouTube videos. Yeah, its interesting for 5 minutes but for real world information its meaningless. The fact that Tesla keeps pushing this means it will always be the target, but for people who actually buy the damn cars, its next to pointless. Yes, there will be buyers out there who have $100k to drop on a car so that they can scare friends and rip through tires at an astonishing pace. But for everyone else, they have a multitude of reasons why they end up with the car they buy. Looks, interior, technology, safety, image, handling - the list goes on.
For me, and I appreciate that I am a minority, I get more enjoyment out of driving my 2004 Boxster than I do out of my C63S. The AMG has over twice the power but the Boxster is so much more fun on twisty roads and rewards smooth driving in a way that the Merc simply cant. I am in the US and a decently spec'ed Ford F-150 will actually out accelerate the Boxster, but the way it can flow down curvy roads and soak up imperfections is amazing. So much fun.
And thats the problem. The Model S is astonishingly fast, yes. But its mainly a luxury car. I have driven a P85D and it was fun for a few minutes. Launching from lights and onto freeways was fun, but got boring very quickly. Its good and a testament to the engineering that is in it, but its far from a fun car to drive in the areas that I am looking for. What I do find very frustrating is that Tesla fans claim that it is the ONLY car you should buy. It isnt and wont be. We all have differing opinions, views and requirements and no one single car fits everyone. If it fits and it works for you, great. But for others it doesnt - and currently it doesnt fit for me. But to claim that its the perfect car, thats insane. Equally, to claim that the only single measure of performance is 0-60 and 1/4 mile times is madness too.
Final point, as I am rambling, who here has done multiple launches in a sub-3 second car? How did it feel? When you were into the 3rd and 4th time, was it an enjoyable experience? And how often would you actually use this?
SuperPav said:
E65Ross said:
I'd be surprised if the Tesla feels as luxurious or well put together as an S Class from an interior perspective?
It does not, hence my comment being with regard only to driving/handling. What the Tesla does do is slightly make you question what luxury is, particularly with the model 3. Yes it’s not as accurately put together and the materials are cheaper than in an Audi or Merc but the overall feel from the minimalist and clean interior is actually quite “luxurious” in an unconventional way.. “strangely nice” is one way of putting it.
off_again said:
I agree. The internet is full of obsessives and if you want to see how crazy it can be, this video is a great example. The levels of obsession that some Tesla fans have dropped to (and personal attacks) around the potential that the Model S ISNT the fastest or best is amazing. A couple of online searches will reveal how crazy it is!
Yep, hard to believe really. To the share holders among the Teslarati: IMO you are doing the brand a disservice. Honest criticism is required to improve the product. And the cult like obsession of some very vocal fans is turning "normal people" of the brand. In the days before the internet this would not have mattered. But with all the stupidity out there in the open... It's really shady how they clearly didn't have the Tesla in launch mode but made a point of putting the Taycan in launch mode.
Top Gear have some history of disliking the Tesla since the whole Roadster incident.
The Taycan is clearly the better driver's car (for now) but Top Gear should have made it a fair and balanced test.
Top Gear have some history of disliking the Tesla since the whole Roadster incident.
The Taycan is clearly the better driver's car (for now) but Top Gear should have made it a fair and balanced test.
SuperPav said:
Driving feel wise, the Model S vs Taycan is similar to an S-Class vs a Panamera. One is wafty and cushiony, the other precise and engaging.
There's room and appetite for both. Isn't it nice to have more than one fast EV to choose from? Why does one have to KILL the other? This ain't EV Battle Royale...
Have you driven both or something or are you making it up as you go along?There's room and appetite for both. Isn't it nice to have more than one fast EV to choose from? Why does one have to KILL the other? This ain't EV Battle Royale...
jamoor said:
Have you driven both or something or are you making it up as you go along?
Yes I've driven both, on track and on the road.Full disclosure: the MS used were pre-Raven cars, but I'm not expecting the Raven model to handle any differently, just be more robust in terms of thermal resilience in the motor.
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