RE: Lotus expects to outgrow Hethel
Discussion
Olivera said:
Vee12V said:
Frimley111R said:
LotusOmega375D said:
Back in November 2014 then new CEO Jean-Marc Gales said Lotus would sell 2000 cars in 2014, then 3000 cars in 2015 and the same for the next few years until a leap to 10000 cars in the future (presumably based on SUV sales).
5 years later his successor has repeated pretty much the same figures.
It’s like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!
I can see why it seems like that but never before have Lotus had access to not only such huge financial reserves but also access to a manufacturer of high quality mainstream cars which can supply tech, manufacturing support etc. 5 years later his successor has repeated pretty much the same figures.
It’s like trying to find the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow!
Really?
Frimley111R said:
Jellinek said:
Surprised to read the comment on the 100k cap in the range, at least for the time being. How many cars would they need to sell at that price point to be sustainably profitable I wonder? Would have thought a 200k longitudinal mid-engined product off an evolved eagle chassis would be the next logical step, followed by the cheaper transverse installation Evora replacement. (Both with convertible options of course). This would be more logical in terms of revenues and product line surely, and capitalise on the Evija hype which I thought was supposed to embue the brand with more perceived value? Seems very odd. 
Sports cars or any type of car? An SUV could sell in bigger numbers.Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
Frimley111R said:
98elise said:
kambites said:
wab172uk said:
Frimley111R said:
3 lines in before mentioning Lotus's most famous employee, Danny B. He's more famous than Colin Chapman!
Yeah. Guy wanted to produce cars people might actually want to buy. What a Dick !!!For Lotus is was pure fantasy.
https://sniffpetrol.com/2010/10/28/that-new-lotus-...
Jellinek said:
Very true, but I’m not entirely sure for how much longer with SUV’s again the target of climate activists. And with a near saturated market it’s not the financial cure-all it once was.
Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
To be fair, given the technology available within the group (and the outright focus on it for the Evija), the best thing they could do is utilise their lack of brand baggage and produce an ultra modern alternative to the Taycan and Tesla.Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
It's an uncrowded marketplace, they would be able to share the architecture with other forward facing Geely brands like Volvo, the lower volumes would suit them and if there's anyone at all left from when I was there then they have a significant amount of electric vehicle engineering and manufacturing experience in house already.
The only thing they lack to make it happen is brand awareness and the sort of dealership network they would need to move them, but they would have that issue with moving 4x4's anyway and they will have to invest heavily in their marketing to bring the brand back into people's minds. Perhaps they could look to the Tesla model of central distribution to deal with the lack of dealers too.
The Wookie said:
Jellinek said:
Very true, but I’m not entirely sure for how much longer with SUV’s again the target of climate activists. And with a near saturated market it’s not the financial cure-all it once was.
Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
To be fair, given the technology available within the group (and the outright focus on it for the Evija), the best thing they could do is utilise their lack of brand baggage and produce an ultra modern alternative to the Taycan and Tesla.Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
It's an uncrowded marketplace, they would be able to share the architecture with other forward facing Geely brands like Volvo, the lower volumes would suit them and if there's anyone at all left from when I was there then they have a significant amount of electric vehicle engineering and manufacturing experience in house already.
The only thing they lack to make it happen is brand awareness and the sort of dealership network they would need to move them, but they would have that issue with moving 4x4's anyway and they will have to invest heavily in their marketing to bring the brand back into people's minds. Perhaps they could look to the Tesla model of central distribution to deal with the lack of dealers too.
The most encouraging thing for me with Geely is that they do seem to invest into a brand properly when take it over. So I have hope that any plan they do formulate will be backed up properly.
Just look what they have done to Volvo I have never considered a Volvo before but I think they are really nice cars now.
Jellinek said:
Very true, but I’m not entirely sure for how much longer with SUV’s again the target of climate activists. And with a near saturated market it’s not the financial cure-all it once was.
Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
SUV's are yesterdays fashion statement bought usually by the middle aged and vain. The market is over saturated already. There's a current backlash against SUV's going on in Berlin, a leader of popular culture in Germany. The youth don't like them due to their much increased contribution to global warming and their negative impact on cyclists, pedestrians and other road users who have to interact with them. The young normally view SUV's as crass, vulgar, polluting and unnecessary - in other words exactly the opposite of what we should be doing to our planet right now. SUV's are dinosaurs in the making.Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
The true future lies in hybrid/electric/hydrogen etc combined with clever use of lightweight technology, and of this (lightweight) Lotus have some considerable expertise and could be well positioned.
Andy20vt said:
SUV's are yesterdays fashion statement bought usually by the middle aged and vain. The market is over saturated already. There's a current backlash against SUV's going on in Berlin, a leader of popular culture in Germany. The youth don't like them due to their much increased contribution to global warming and their negative impact on cyclists, pedestrians and other road users who have to interact with them. The young normally view SUV's as crass, vulgar, polluting and unnecessary - in other words exactly the opposite of what we should be doing to our planet right now. SUV's are dinosaurs in the making.
That's going to completely stuff Aston Martin's plans and Ferrari might have to have a rethink. Lamborghini will have to look elsewhere for almost 50% of its sales and Rolls Royce will be relieved not have a backlog of orders any more.Cold said:
Andy20vt said:
SUV's are yesterdays fashion statement bought usually by the middle aged and vain. The market is over saturated already. There's a current backlash against SUV's going on in Berlin, a leader of popular culture in Germany. The youth don't like them due to their much increased contribution to global warming and their negative impact on cyclists, pedestrians and other road users who have to interact with them. The young normally view SUV's as crass, vulgar, polluting and unnecessary - in other words exactly the opposite of what we should be doing to our planet right now. SUV's are dinosaurs in the making.
That's going to completely stuff Aston Martin's plans and Ferrari might have to have a rethink. Lamborghini will have to look elsewhere for almost 50% of its sales and Rolls Royce will be relieved not have a backlog of orders any more.Andy20vt said:
The young normally view SUV's as crass, vulgar, polluting and unnecessary - in other words exactly the opposite of what we should be doing to our planet right now. SUV's are dinosaurs in the making.
How many young people drop £50k+ on a new car?!?SUVs have at least one if not 3 product-cycles in them before the market starts moving against them.
The Wookie said:
Jellinek said:
Very true, but I’m not entirely sure for how much longer with SUV’s again the target of climate activists. And with a near saturated market it’s not the financial cure-all it once was.
Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
To be fair, given the technology available within the group (and the outright focus on it for the Evija), the best thing they could do is utilise their lack of brand baggage and produce an ultra modern alternative to the Taycan and Tesla.Moving into the SUV market too soon could also do more harm than good in the long term since mass market buyers are much less forgiving than boutique sports car owners. They need to get their quality sorted on the low volume product before attempting to expand imho.
It's an uncrowded marketplace, they would be able to share the architecture with other forward facing Geely brands like Volvo, the lower volumes would suit them and if there's anyone at all left from when I was there then they have a significant amount of electric vehicle engineering and manufacturing experience in house already.
The only thing they lack to make it happen is brand awareness and the sort of dealership network they would need to move them, but they would have that issue with moving 4x4's anyway and they will have to invest heavily in their marketing to bring the brand back into people's minds. Perhaps they could look to the Tesla model of central distribution to deal with the lack of dealers too.
Whichever way it goes with Geely and the future of Lotus, i think it is safe to say Lotus will always endure and they will always be a lucrative prospect for any car company to take the reigns of.
Lotus has never had to close it's doors since the company was founded in 1948.
Right now Jaguar is in a worse situation than Lotus, having made an annual loss of 3.6 billion.
Lotus has never had to close it's doors since the company was founded in 1948.
Right now Jaguar is in a worse situation than Lotus, having made an annual loss of 3.6 billion.
lotuslover69 said:
Whichever way it goes with Geely and the future of Lotus, i think it is safe to say Lotus will always endure and they will always be a lucrative prospect for any car company to take the reigns of.
Because all the car companies have been tripping over themselves to take control haven't they?Best thing that could have happened to Lotus 10 years ago was if VW bought them. Yes they would have lost the `Light weight` ethos that Lotus are based on, but at least they would have turned their fortunes around and produced some cars that were well styled, well built, and appealed to the mass market. Then let Lotus go off and build some light weight specials for the hard core `Rich` buyers.
wab172uk said:
Because all the car companies have been tripping over themselves to take control haven't they?
Best thing that could have happened to Lotus 10 years ago was if VW bought them. Yes they would have lost the `Light weight` ethos that Lotus are based on, but at least they would have turned their fortunes around and produced some cars that were well styled, well built, and appealed to the mass market. Then let Lotus go off and build some light weight specials for the hard core `Rich` buyers.
But if I wanted a Porsche or an Audi TT, I would have bought one. What use is that scenario to anyone but VW? It just reduces consumer choice outside of areas which are already well served.Best thing that could have happened to Lotus 10 years ago was if VW bought them. Yes they would have lost the `Light weight` ethos that Lotus are based on, but at least they would have turned their fortunes around and produced some cars that were well styled, well built, and appealed to the mass market. Then let Lotus go off and build some light weight specials for the hard core `Rich` buyers.
wab172uk said:
Best thing that could have happened to Lotus 10 years ago was if VW bought them.
Hmmmm.IMO where things could have gone better a long time ago is if they'd been bought by Toyota - with whom they had extensive cooperation - instead of GM. As we know, since GM bailed out virtually every car built has been a ToyoLotus although it's the Chinese who eventually stumped up a lot of hard cash for the meagre remains of a tired business.
wab172uk said:
Because all the car companies have been tripping over themselves to take control haven't they?
Best thing that could have happened to Lotus 10 years ago was if VW bought them. Yes they would have lost the `Light weight` ethos that Lotus are based on, but at least they would have turned their fortunes around and produced some cars that were well styled, well built, and appealed to the mass market. Then let Lotus go off and build some light weight specials for the hard core `Rich` buyers.
Lotus has a history of making good cars, Lotus has never built a bad road car in the companies history and all Lotus cars are somewhat desirable. Sure not all have been financially successful but they are always pleasant to drive and typically do well with reviews. Couple in the rich racing history of Lotus as well as their consultant work over the years and i doubt they will ever close their doors.Best thing that could have happened to Lotus 10 years ago was if VW bought them. Yes they would have lost the `Light weight` ethos that Lotus are based on, but at least they would have turned their fortunes around and produced some cars that were well styled, well built, and appealed to the mass market. Then let Lotus go off and build some light weight specials for the hard core `Rich` buyers.
Right now Lotus sales might be down but they did make a profit last year and haven't released a truly new model in many years (the Evija being the first since 2015 with the release of the 3-11 which was a niche track car). Geely have invested 1.5 billion into Lotus cars so we can expect some dramatic changes. That amounts to more money than what was injected into Mclaren when they made the 12C.
Lotus will be able to tap into the Chinese car market which is huge and has alienated many other european and american car companies. But the Chinese connection for Lotus means it will be able to sell sports cars in China without the ridiculous taxation. Not only this but Geely owns a lot of tech companies in China who can provide ECU's EV powertrains and in car entertainment systems.
Edited by lotuslover69 on Sunday 22 September 13:29
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